Life after birth

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redbetta said:
, just put it up for adoption
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Those of us who work hard to change the perception encourage eliminating this phrase. We encourage people to “place their child with a loving adoptive family”.
redbetta said:
How come that option is never discussed?
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Because our society has demonized people who do “put their kids up for adoption”.

We need to speak of it as one of the most loving, heroic acts that someone can do. We change that by starting to change the terms.
 
So very nicely stated. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!!!
 
I have a number of friends who are on the pro-abortion side of things… they’re pretty vitriolic about the subject, and deride the pro-life side as being the side of “forced birth” and stuff like that. When you’ve got that much venom towards other humans— whether we’re talking about babies or the people who want to protect them— there’s not a whole lot of dialoguing that can happen.

One of the hallmarks of Christian love is the concept of agape love-- self-sacrificial love for others. It came up in the gospel recently— I heard a commentary on it, and I haven’t checked it out, but it was saying that when Christ was asking Peter “Do you love me?” he asked him, basically, “Do you agape me?” And Peter responds, “I philios you!” (“Philios” being more like “affectionate regard” for someone.) And Christ asks again, “Do you agape me?” And Peter says, “I philios you!” And then the third time, Christ changes his position, and asks, “Do you philios me?” And Peter says, “You know everything! You know that I philios you!” And Christ then makes his prophecy about Peter’s future martyrdom— which indicates, indirectly, that Peter will eventually grow into the agape/sacrificial love that Christ desires him, and all his followers, to possess.

Anyhow.

It’s our job, as Christians, to have agape/sacrificial love for those around us— our families, our neighbors, our communities, the poor. That’s why Christianity was adopted so quickly by the poor and the outcasts, because it was so revolutionary.

But with a society that has been moving steadily beyond Christian roots— we’re reverting more into a pagan philosophy of the dominance of the strongest, where the weak get trampled. And when the weak get trampled (such as the poor), they also end up more likely to be trampling on those who are weaker than them (such as the unborn)…

Society certainly has to change. Life is full of suffering, regardless of how much money you have… but love, especially agape love, makes suffering easier to bear, because it’s shared out amongst others. 💚
 
I’ve never known anyone who has been demonized for putting a kid up for adoption. Only heard of people who have abortions or leave their kids in dumpsters after birth be demonized.
 
I would suggest that you volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center, meet some real life women who are in this situation. Listen as they weep, hold their hands and then come back and see if your point of view has changed.

It is easy to demonize faceless strangers.
 
TheLittleLady said:
I do not think poor people should be killed for being poor. I think that poor people ought not to be denied the blessing of children because they are poor.

Christ told me that it is MY job to care for the poor.
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Amen.

Matthew 25:40 comes immediately to mind. What you have done for the least of these you have done for me.

Every Christian should be giving some combination of their time, talent, or treasure to help those in need. Period.
 
I ignored my local hospital because it didn’t give me what I wanted, and went to a birth center. My insurance didn’t cover it, so I paid it out-of-pocket. My prenatal care, midwife, mw’s assistant, and a month of postnatal care ran $4k, for each of my ordinary, healthy, run-of-the-mill pregnancies. I think I had to pay my sonographer about $200-- that wasn’t included. I only had one; other ladies who were on my birth board got like two or three or four or whatever from their hospitals…

Not everyone can afford to be particular, I understand---- I wasn’t thrilled about driving an hour away in active labor! (and I wasn’t the one behind the wheel!)—but if someone’s shelling out $10-$20-$30k to have a hospital baby, either there are serious health risks in play, or someone’s getting wayyyyyy overcharged…
 
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This is another issue where the government, along with religious agencies could be helpful. Good point, Le_Crouton!
 
I’m not saying that I demonize anyone. I understand it’s a scary situation to be in, especially if your partner is hostile.

EDIT: Also, I’m really curious as to what you think my point of view actually is.
 
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Fine. I already contribute to charities to help mothers and children in need.
In addition, we have social safety nets to care for single mothers and children; of course these can always be improved, but from what I can see they have improved a great deal over just my own lifetime.

It is a myth that people who don’t support abortion also don’t do anything to care for babies and children who are already born, just like it is a myth that people who don’t support abortion are all in favor of the death penalty.

Also, the vast majority of women seeking abortions in USA are not doing so out of economic necessity.
 
redbetta said:
Honestly, I’m convinced the abortion question is not so much about people not having the means to take care of their kids, as it is about people not wanting to be inconvenienced.
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There is a good bit of that, especially among the more educated women who find themselves pregnant by boyfriends who do not want a commitment or to whom the women don’t want to commit, or even by men they barely know and picked up on Tinder.
 
Honestly, I’ve never understood that argument. In my state at least, a woman who has a child she cannot support gets food, housing, fuel or bus credit, and free healthcare. The child AND the mother are totally cared for. Source: Three friends who have had to use these services. Two were able to stay home with their kids, one got daycare covered by state funds so she could work because she wanted off government assistance ASAP.

Now, stepping outside the government care realm, if it wasn’t enough, my parish and local organizations have the means to provide food, housing, clothing, and transportation and daycare for struggling families. Again, my source is I am a community contact for many of the service and part of my job is connecting families to these services. The idea that a woman MUST get an abortion for financial reasons just doesn’t hold up in my area.
 
redbetta said:
Honestly, I’m convinced the abortion question is not so much about people not having the means to take care of their kids, as it is about people not wanting to be inconvenienced.
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You clearly stated your point of view.

I am suggesting that some time spent with women in crisis pregnancies, not on a social media page or a blog or in listening to a pro-life speaker, might change this point of view.

Guttmacher’s own study showed that more than 70% of women had abortions because they would not be able to work, would not be able to continue school or care for the children they already have.

The laws on the books that say a business cannot fire a woman for being pregnant are there, however, a less than commendable business will find a way to not accommodate a pregnant woman.

My own husband was fired from his job because he wanted to take time off for doc appointments during my high-risk pregnancy. That sort of thing happens every day.

I used to say the same things as you said above. My POV was changed by women in crisis.
 
As much as there is available, I believe more can be and more should be done.
 
With all due respect, I understand that many women are in crisis.

Not all women are in crisis and there are plenty of women who would be able to have the child, put it up for adoption if necessary, and return to school or work. As I said, they tend to be people who have better educations, family resources, and options in general. They may not even show up at crisis pregnancy centers because it’s not a major crisis for them.

There are also workplaces that will not fire you for being pregnant. It may however negatively impact whatever plans a woman has for herself in the here and now, if she has to be absent from a job for some period of time or is going to miss out on some opportunity or be delayed in graduating from college, etc if she gives birth. Obviously this is a big personal issue for the woman involved as it would involve her making some sacrifice and enduring some difficulty, but it does not in this day and age in the USA mean she would never be able to have a career or a good job, never finish school and never resolve her child care issues (or like I said put the child up for adoption).
 
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Right, and I’m not a fan of broad categories.

It would be much more helpful to break down those for whom “interfere with education” meant “I have to take a semester off from my grad school while I figure this all out” as opposed to “my parents will kick me out and I’ll have to drop out of high school and care for my kid full time with my only job option being McDonalds”.
 
I didn’t say that this is the case for all women considering abortion. But, considering all the support women have nowadays and the adoption option, I’m skeptical. Plus, when you work in a crisis pregnancy center, you are seeing women who absolutely do not want to get an abortion, not the types who treat it just like contraception.
 
redbetta said:
you are seeing women who absolutely do not want to get an abortion
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Actually, in my experience in 5 different states, this accounts for half of the women who come in.

Women come in for pregnancy tests who are dead set on aborting if the test is positive. Women come in who are confused.

It is very different that what I’d imagined it would be like.

ETA

Speaking of options, without google, do you know if/what are the Safe Haven laws in your city/state?

We do a deplorable job of teaching this option. It needs to be on posters at school, on Social Media, on billboards.
 
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