"Life Teen is Irreformable"

[Sheen]

I think this is the article being discussed – you can link through this URL without any membership to csnews:

kofc8240.org/e3news/index.asp?article_id=162309

 

[deogratias]

Thanks Sheen - now let’s see if the 20 people who responded without reading the article (which was Karl’s request we not do) respond again after reading it

 

[deogratias]

The first half of the letter is completely accurate - Bishop Olmsted has done more in six months to correct problems in this Diocese than was done in the previous 40 years. He is very orthodox and very congnizant of Chruch teachings and also is a Canon Lawyer.

Fr. Dale, the founder of life teen was Bishop O’Brien’s right hand man and Vicar General - of course as is the custom, Bishop Olmsted has appointed his own staff. I think of how the military does this. When they bring in a new commander, he does not hesitate to clean house immediately and this has been his stance.

Now for the rest of the letter.

if Life Teen is really as good at catechizing teens as it claims to be, then these changes will not be a problem for those teens, but they will accept them as authentic and loving correction from competent Church authority.

And that will take some time to evaluate and we won’t know - obviously some of the former LT members who post here feel it has instilled in them a love for the Lord and at least one has said he plans on going to seminary. Would they have learned that same love at the Mass their parents attend - how can we or they know.

But I do believe a good youth after Mass program can contribute a lot to the catechesis of the young as long as it is not contrary to Church teachings. One thing I do know the LT program preached was CHASTITY and sexual continence - and that was a good program within the LT venue. I see no problem with havin a social time after the educational part of the program.

In summary Life Teen Mass:nope:

A supervised Life Night after Saturday night or Sunday night Mass

 

[Meggie]

First off:

To all those who have had bad experiances with LifeTeen. What a horrible thing to have seen, however this is not LifeTeen’s fault, a priest in right staning and correct education does not simply go along with these abuses of liturgy.

Second:

So what if it resembles a children’s Mass? Most teens have less Catholic education than a small child of 40+ years ago.

Third:

LifeTeen in general welcomes everyone to Mass. However, many of you forget that the teens who are going are going against their parent’t wishes. My own mother would rather me do normal things…even a midnight showing of Harry Potter…then go to Mass and LifeNight on a Saturday

Fourth:

At my LifeTeen the music is up beat but 80% of it is written by Catholic artists such as Jim Cowan.

Fifth:

Stop forgetting the audience that LifeTeen is inteneded for. If you know your Catholic Faith ITS NOT FOR YOU!!! Its for teens who need instruction in the Catholic faith. Sometimes it can be good for teens who are strong in their faith to go to LifeTeen as a witness to a good Catholic lifestyle.

Last:

No program is so corrupt it cannot be fixed. Nothing is too broken that it cannot be fixed. Do you people even believe in God? How can you say that?

 

[dream_wanderer]

I also have no problem with teens having a time of their own to worship once or twice a month. They are after all going to be adults soon and will be making some hard decisions on their own. They will not have their parents there to make them go to Mass. It will be their time of accountability soon…they will go away to college or to work or join the Army or whatever. They may not even be in a Catholic friendly atmosphere. It won’t hurt for them get used to the idea of attending mass on their own of their own free will and with no outside pressure.

dream wanderer

 

[Mandi]

Meggie:

So what if it resembles a children’s Mass? Most teens have less Catholic education than a small child of 40+ years ago.

I’d say this a BIG problem … what happened - teaching catechism use to be important! … When did it all go wrong

 

[Meggie]

its because our parents weren’t educated properly. Their own parents taught them a minconstrude understanding of Vatican II and they were confused about it. Insted of learning their Catholic faith to teach to their children they simply don’t.

In LifeTeen many of us consider ourselvs the thing that will save Catholocism becasue Catholocism has save us. In my LifeTeen parish alone aleast half a dozen families have come to Christ because of their teens being in LifeTeen. We teens have to lay the foundation for the future Catholocism. We have to learn becasue our parents did not. None of us know very much doctrine but we learn becasue we know that we must be resposable for our Faith. We have to live it and show it even to our parents and familes who have fallen away.

 

[baltobetsy]

Sheen:

I think this is the article being discussed – you can link through this URL without any membership to csnews:

kofc8240.org/e3news/index.asp?article_id=162309

I just read the above article, and I don’t think it’s the one Karl has referred to. This article is hopeful in tone, and the one in the original post seems to hold out no hope for LifeTeen at all.

Betsy

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The LifeTeen masses remind me a lot of the Masses we had at my Catholic College in the 1970s. Our folk group (and any others in the congregation as well) were ALWAYS standing up around the altar with Father, holding hands during the Our Father, etc. We did music throughout the prayers, sang the Doxology all together, joshed and bantered, had screen projectors and special presentations, gender inclusive language, liturgical dance, etc. We were 17-22 (older teens but comparable to today’s 13-19 year olds in many ways).

And I enjoyed them, as did most of my contemporaries. I never missed Mass, I felt “connected” to God.

Looking back now, I feel there are pros, but many more cons than I would have imagined. Yes, we were “at Mass”–but what were we at Mass FOR? The emphasis on being “special”–was it SO emphatic that we lost sight of the fact that we were also no better than any other person? Did the “special Mass” and the “special things we shared” help or hinder the majority of us as we became mature Catholics?

For many of us, the idea that “we” were Church, “we” were God’s priestly people (emphasis more heavily on PRIEST than people), that the focus was to be less on the minutiae of doctrine, dogma, rules and regs but more on “feeling Christ”, “living Christ”, “openness to many ways” etc. led to our being ultimately less informed and less faithful than we would have been otherwise. Though the priests who led us were good and holy men with good and holy intentions, the ultimate result of Masses that were rife with abuses (however well-intentioned) and catechesis that relied on “individual conscience, ethos, morality” rather than approved or even available Catholic doctrine, was a generation thoroughly confused about Catholicism in virtually every sphere of existence. A generation which contracepts, aborts, doesn’t believe in the Real Presence, thinks church attendance is optional, doesn’t know its own church history or its own faith teachings, and is more concerned about being able to be “individuals” and “follow their consciences” than about God Himself.

If the Lifeteen Masses can be adapted according to the GIRM, as it stated in the article, it will certainly help keep SOME of the bad effects I and others lived through above from being AS bad. The question remains (and I think I incline to Karl’s view): Will those changes be enough? Will the overall effect of Lifeteen become, not merely, “not too bad” or even “neutral”, but POSITIVE? Surely, we should be striving to give ALL members of our faith a TRUE positive outlook–one that strengthens us in our relationship with God, instead of striving to have HIM conform to us in order to make us “comfortable with ourselves”. IMO.

 

[RichT]

deogratias:

Thanks Sheen - now let’s see if the 20 people who responded without reading the article (which was Karl’s request we not do) respond again after reading it

Sorry deo, wrong article. If the correct one is made available I will gladly read it. It wont change my position. I am just frustrated at all the people who want to just end the Life Teen program all together. Considering that there are abuses in all other aspects of the church, that doesn’t seem fair. Why can’t we just work on fixing the abuses? Not only in Life Teen, but in other areas as well. Afterall, if ending Life Teen is the solution, then maybe we should just clean the entire house, and start closing parishes and firing priests. Yeah, maybe that will fix everything. By the way, enjoying the monsoon season?

 

[deogratias]

Not getting any rain, guess you are getting it all in Chandler. Several nights we had wind and thunder and lightening and I thought, oh boy, and then I’d hear Scottsdale had an inch of rain while central Mesa had nary a drop.

 

[deogratias]

Why can’t we just work on fixing the abuses? Not only in Life Teen, but in other areas as well.

Well if my experience counts for anything, my two attempts to assist at Mass at St.Tims (and likewise Christ the King) would be a good place to start. It isn’t just the LT Masses at those two parishes that need some de-abusing. I’ve been to hootenannys that had less hand clapping, toe tapping, finger snapping and joke telling. No kneelers in either parish. Oh the people were having a grand time it seemed but is that why we assist at Mass - for the fun of it?

 

[system]

While we await word on whether we’ve seen “the article” or not…

whosebob:

I volunteer with a LifeTeen program … I consider myself a highly conservative Catholic … I will be interviewing for the youth minister position at my parish. If hired … I would like the teens to worship together at least twice a month as a way to begin our Wednesday night activities. … rotate through Holy Mass, Benediction and Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, the Holy Rosary, and Evening Prayer from the Divine Office. … The activities planning for the bulk of the Wednesday nights will be based, sometimes loosely and sometimes closely, on the “LifeNight” outlines that come quarterly with our parish’s LifeTeen subscription/affiliation. I will also (sparingly) make use of the CDs and videos that are included in the subscription.

Please give me feedback, ladys and gents!

I think getting the youth-oriented services off the Sunday calendar would eliminate the major objection that many have with LT - that a Sunday mass which caters to ANY subset of the parish population, is wrong. And a rotating schedule of devotions is a marvelous idea. What a great way to expose them to the church’s treasures, and I suspect you will draw in teens who are turned off by the typical LT-style mass.

Now, some questions for you:

1. Would a parish even consider a “conservative” Catholic for the youth minister position? That is certainly not the norm in most parishes. Would your pastor support a “conservative LT program”?
2. What exactly does it mean to have a LT subscription? Is it mandated by your Diocese? What materials are you given, and how much flexibility do you have in using (or not using) them? Or trying your own ideas, like your “Wednesday devotions”.
3. What if a parish can’t find anyone to toe the LT party-line? If no one steps up to coordinate (most parishes rely on volunteers), what happens then?

 

[Debbie]

I think this is the article to which Karl refers:

spiritdaily.com/lifeteen.htm

Debbie

 

[RichT]

Debbie:

I think this is the article to which Karl refers:

spiritdaily.com/lifeteen.htm

Debbie

Thanks Debbie! I am sure we ill see some comments soon.

 

[deogratias]

Thanks - so it is not the liturgy or the music that this author objects to but

Nevertheless, I think this movement is profoundly and fundamentally flawed because it does two things. First, it separates young persons at the most decisive stage of their lives from their families. Second, it panders to the teenager’s inclination to live in a mentality of entertainment

One poster did note that their parents did attend, however children below a certain age are actually forbidden to attend this Mass in some parishes.

The author suggests that the responsibility for sound Catholic catechesis be turned back where it belongs - to the family and that family prayer and worship are essential. I tend to agree but this must begin when the child is learning to dip his fingers into the holy water font, with the family praying togerher as a family on a daily basis, with blessings before meals and by parents living an example of Catholic life.

What of the young Catholic where families fail to step up to this obligation? Is the LT program then a valid substitute?
What would be a better alternative?

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Okay, I read the article and here’s my take…

I personally would never be happy with Life Teen no matter how orthodox their liturgy, and here’s why.

Okay, the author puts her position forth very clearly. She doesn’t buy into any part of LifeTeen and, therefore, it doesn’t matter what follows. This is sort of a “don’t confuse me with facts, my mind’s made up” statement. But, let’s see if there’s any justification for her position.

Nevertheless, I think this movement is profoundly and fundamentally flawed because it does two things. First, it separates young persons at the most decisive stage of their lives from their families. Second, it panders to the teenager’s inclination to live in a mentality of entertainment.

I disagree. During the the LifeTeen Mass teens are encouraged to sit with their families. Yes, they are called out at the start of the anaphora (Eucharistic Prayer) to gather around the altar, but after communion they are to return to their families. Secondly, I disagree that “entertainment” is any part of the LifeTeen Mass or LifeNight which follows. Yes, the music is more “modern” – but we tend to forget that during the time of Pope St. Gregory the Great, Gregorian Chant was, in fact, a modern form of musical expression and polyphonic music was in its infancy! I think there needs to be a careful balance between the musical selections and the way they are played, but the claim that this is “entertainment” is certainly a personal bias on the part of the author. In my parish the most common LifeTeen activity after Mass is Eucharistic Adoration. I doubt that this would qualify as “entertainment” in anyone’s book!

What we call a teenager-– as if that term connotes a species separate from the rest of us-– is really a person on a trajectory from his youth to his adulthood. In the teen years that person is discovering who he is in relation to the family he was born in and the world he is entering. The Church, through Catholic culture built by priests and families, has always striven to integrate all the stages of life, passing along the faith by this means.
In the history of the faith one would never find a situation in parishes in which worship was restricted by age, nor would one find some members of the family taken apart from others on a regular basis.

Until now.

Many of the people attending the LifeTeen Mass in my parish are senior citizens drawn by the vibrancy of the Spirit that is present in the kids and their families. There is no “retrict[ion] by age” nor is any family drawn apart. Rather, what I found in my teen years was a sort of surly youth that went with mom and dad because they had to. That was a separation of family even though they appeared to be together. LifeTeen draws kids who want to be at Mass – many of whom come without their uparents becaase the parents are not active Catholics.

…continued in next post…

 

[Deacon_Ed]

… continued from previous post…

Society is so fragmented, parents are so distracted, and grandparents are so isolated. The only solution is to reach teens where they are, with what they know, which is entertainment experienced in isolation from everyone but one’s peers. But I have never yet heard of a solution to any problem that consists of more of the problem, unless one is proposing to inoculate teens against frivolity by a one-time dose. That doesn’t seem to be the case with Life Teen. No, rock music, group hugs, emotional entertainment masked as liturgy-– somehow these are offered as the path to meaning. In addition, the problem does not exist outside the Church’s ability to act. On the contrary, if pastors saw these issues as part of their responsibility rather than givens– as problems that they should counteract rather than immutable facts of life-- perhaps we would see changes in society sooner than we thought possible.

There is a kernal of truth here – we must reach people where they are. If I go up to a person who speaks only Russian and I address him or her in Greek there will be little communication – we’ll be forced to resort to some form of pantomime or gesture. In our society today, no matter how much we might like to deny it, there are forces at work that are design to convey messages contrary to our Catholic faith. Yet, rejecting the medium of the message is not the right answer. If the medium works, then we need to use that medium to reach those who might otherwise be alienated from the Church. While I certainly prefer Palestrina to most of the modern music used at LifeTeen Masses, I recognize the efficacy of these alternate musical forms to touch the hearts and minds of the kids. When this form is coupled with songs containing valid Catholic theology there is a teaching moment happening. What Ms. Lawler apparently fails to see is that this is a response on the part of the Church to addressing a very real problem.

To summarize my feelings (which means this is a subjective analysis) with regard to this article let me say this…

1. Ms. Lawler never cites a single parish where she has observed the phenomena that she claims is universally present in LifeTeen Masses.
2. Ms. Lawler posits as fact certain items which seems not to be the case (or, at least, are not universally true).
3. Ms. Lawler presents what appears to be more sophistry than logically constructed arguments.

My experience of LifeTeen is not the same as hers. Yes, even in my parish there are liturgical violations (which I have pointed out to the pastor). As a deacon who sometimes preaches there, I can assure those who are really interested that the kids get a deeper, more theologically meaningful homily than do the other Masses because we have more time and can develop our themes better.

This is not to say that LifeTeen is without problems, but since no solution is perfect, I think that there is much good that can come from LifeTeen – and that will only get better as the liturgical violations are eliminated.

Deacon Ed
St. Joseph Parish
Placentia, CA

 

[RichT]

I just read this article and as already noted it is poorly researched. I doubt very much the author has attended the Life Teen mass in every parish it is offered in, so she is definately not an athority in what goes on at each parish. The parish I attend, St. Tim’s where it all started by the way, is filled with many adults during the life teen mass. Not only that, but many of the teens, attend a “regular” mass with their families earlier in the day. For those teens that do attend alone, where are their parents? Is it the church’s fault as the author suggests that the parents aren’t there? For many of these teen’s, not only do thier parent’s fail to attend life teen with them, but fail to attend any sort of mass, worship, or service at all. So, what do we do with them when we get rid of life teen? The author seems to blame the church for the lack of parenting skills. She says that the “pastors of souls have relinquished their role in assisting families in the difficult but necessay task of raising children.” Forgive my ignorance, but just how can we expect the church to help in this situation when many of the parents in todays society haven’t set foot into a place of worship in many years. Assuming the church did start to preach a message to parents about how to raise their children, and I am not so sure they aren’t already, how will these parents hear the message? The author fails to recognize that many of the teens in attendance do indeed come without parents. They come without parents because their parents couldn’t a hoot about what their children are doing anyway. So, I ask the question again, what do we do with these teens when we take life teen away from them. Just send them back out into the streets? Do you know that many teen groups come from other faiths to attend the life teen mass? Isn’t that a good thing, that the catholic church is drawing in even protestant youth at a time in their life when they are making big choices in who they will be?

She calls a teenager a person on a trajectory from youth to adulthood. How profound. When I was younger I lived next door to a family with two boys close to my age. Every Monday they had to attend catechism classes as they did not attend a catholic school. They hated it, because if they even looked at their father funny when he said it was time for catechism, they would get beaten with a belt. Today, one of them is dead due to a horrible blood infection he got sharing needles with other drug users. The other lives a life that is definately not a catholic one. Nothing like forcing religion down one’s throat. I can’t help but wonder what life would have been like if they were involved in a movement like life teen.

As far as me, I started drinking and smoking pot at the tender age of 12, cigarettes came at the age of 13, and sex came at 15. My parents weren’t religious so they wouldn’t have been sitting in the pews to hear the message about good parenting anyway, but who knows, if the neighbor kids were involved in life teen, maybe I would have went with them one night. Who knows, maybe I would have saved myself for marriage. Luckily, I turned my life around in my twenties, but not all teens are that lucky.

Fix the abuse? Yes!!! Get rid of Life Teen? No way!!! Teach people how to research an article before writing it? No comment.

 

[MaryChelan]

It bothers me very much that some folks think that the purpose of Mass is to keep teens off the streets, to keep them from using drugs or drinking alcohol, to keep them from having sex–that LifeTeen is there for those reasons. To think that LifeTeen can do for young people what only Christ can do for anyone is quite misguided.

Catholic Mass is not celebrated to keep teens or *anyone *off the street and out of harm’s way. It is celebrated in memory of Our Lord. It is not celebrated to keep people out of trouble. It is celebrated for Him!

Mass does not need to be altered so certain groups might feel more comfortable. How comfortable do you think Jesus was on the cross?? How comfortable do you think His followers were when they saw him crucified??

Teens need to be taught about their Catholicism through Catechism, and youth ministries. They need to be taught that following Jesus is not a matter of comfort–that it is not always an easy thing following Him. They need to be taught that the world does not revolve around them–they need to meet the elderly and poor of their parishes and perhaps learn how to serve *them. *They need to learn about Catholic Tradition–that is not what they learn in LifeTeen. The elderly and poor usually know Catholic Tradition in ways that could never be taught in something like LifeTeen.

The notion of *fun *seems to be more important than actual Catholicism in LifeTeen, and this notion will ultimately not serve them, spiritually feed them, or protect the “future” of Catholicism. This is why they need to be taught Catholic Tradition and learn that going to Mass is not about entertainment and merely having fun with other teens.