"Life Teen is Irreformable"

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Thanks Debbie for the article, but I was also able to get it from Karl’s link for free too. There is a free month trial and then all you have to do is cancel if you don’t want to subscribe at the end of the month.

I agree with the Holy Father that family should worship together so I do agree with this article. I just got finished going to a Catholic familyland vacation and it was beautiful to worship on Sunday mass together and at daily mass for a week with the entire family there. Of course they had different programs on weekdays for each age group but the mass was with everyone and Sundays were spent together as a family.
 
Deacon Ed -

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am one of those “old people” who attends the LifeTeen mass (I’m 53). What’s strange is that my teenager is not that nuts about it.

And to anyone else reading this – I attended mass at Notre Dame in Paris this spring, and they don’t have kneelers either!

Again to Deacon Ed – My dad was also Deacon Ed!! (in the Archdiocese of Chicago).
 
I also believe that the young people should also be taught how and why they should not fall for the traps that many Protestant churches set for Catholic youth…especially if their own families are not strong in the faith.

dream wanderer
 
Deacon Ed:
This is not to say that LifeTeen is without problems, but since no solution is perfect, I think that there is much good that can come from LifeTeen – and that will only get better as the liturgical violations are eliminated.
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There is a perfect solution. God - Who is perfect, gave us the perfect sacrifice - “The Mass” He gave us perfect examples “The Saints”. He gave us a perfect Mother - “Mary”. And He gave us the perfect teaching tool “The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church”.

It is man who somewhat resembling Lucifer, thinking they are smarter than God. Has messed around and played with that which is “Perfect” and made it “unperfect”. We are called not just to love God but to become holy. The LifeTeen masses do not resemble holy, so how could one become holy?

I asked my father the other day why all this loving God seemed so fake to me. He answered simply - Because is lacks justice.
 
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MaryChelan:
The notion of *fun *seems to be more important than actual Catholicism in LifeTeen, and this notion will ultimately not serve them, spiritually feed them, or protect the “future” of Catholicism. This is why they need to be taught Catholic Tradition and learn that going to Mass is not about entertainment and merely having fun with other teens.
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Well said MaryChelan!

Speaking as the mother of 4 teenagers, I let my kids know right from day one. Mass was not about having a good time, it is about doing what God wants you to do. The 4 reasons way you go to Mass
  1. Adoration - to love and worship God
  2. Ask forgiveness for your sins and the sins of man kind
  3. To make reparation - for above sins
  4. Petition - To ask God for the things you desire
If you’re looking for a good time - go to the movies!
 
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MaryChelan:
It bothers me very much that some folks think that the purpose of Mass is to keep teens off the streets, to keep them from using drugs or drinking alcohol, to keep them from having sex–that LifeTeen is there for those reasons. To think that LifeTeen can do for young people what only Christ can do for anyone is quite misguided.

Catholic Mass is not celebrated to keep teens or *anyone *off the street and out of harm’s way. It is celebrated in memory of Our Lord. It is not celebrated to keep people out of trouble. It is celebrated for Him!
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Well if your referring to my post let me be clear that I for one did not say that the mass should be intended to keep teens off the street. I simply stated that because there is a life teen mass, that many teens are off the streets and in church. And those teens are falling in love with *HIM *because they are in church!

The author clearly states that the church plays a role in teaching good parenting skills to parents. Keep in mind, it’s one thing for us good catholic’s to say we are good parents, but not every parent is like us. Not every parent is a good catholic. It’s time for us to get out of our boxes and start looking at the world through the eyes of those in need. We can sit here all day long and talk about how we so this and do that with our children. That’s great, and I for one commend those parents who do instill the love of Christ into the children. Unfortunately, we are the minority.
 
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Sonya:
Thanks Debbie for the article, but I was also able to get it from Karl’s link for free too. There is a free month trial and then all you have to do is cancel if you don’t want to subscribe at the end of the month.

I agree with the Holy Father that family should worship together so I do agree with this article. I just got finished going to a Catholic familyland vacation and it was beautiful to worship on Sunday mass together and at daily mass for a week with the entire family there. Of course they had different programs on weekdays for each age group but the mass was with everyone and Sundays were spent together as a family.
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It’s interesting how the author uses the Pope’s writings to defend her stance, especialy considering that Rome is very supportive of the Life Teen program. That has been made known by Bishop Arinze himself. It’s almost as if she is using the Pope’s words against him. Keep in mind in many parishes, the parents are very involved with their children when it comes to life teen. Maybe not all, and yes, that needs to be addressed.
 
Thanks, Sheen, for posting the link to the article. I’ll be sure to add to your reputa–oh, never mind. :rolleyes:

As Karl asked, my comments are based on the article, without any prejudice for or against LifeTeen, and without relying on experiences at LifeTeen Masses that may or may not have been in accordance with LifeTeen guidelines. In the interest of disclosure, our parish tried to start a LifeTeen program about 8-10 years ago, but we didn’t have a large enough teen population to sustain it. It ended after a year and there has been no move to resurrect it.

Many parishes, all around the world, have gotten “sloppy” over the decades. They were doing things that were well-intentioned, but wrong. The new GIRM was issued to bring all parishes into conformity.

Accorfing to the article, LifeTeen has admitted they have made mistakes, and has taken steps to ensure that all parishes will be in conformity with the new GIRM. Not only the parishes in the Diocese of Phoenix, but all parishes that may have been lead astray, in any diocese.

I think that shows a willingness to be reformed, and an actual reform.

If the are other practices in a LifeTeen Mass that are not in accordance with the new GIRM, individual parishes should bring themselves into compliance. If they receive instructions, videos, etc. that indicate a practice that is contrary to the new GIRM, Msgr. Fushek and/or the Bishop of Phoenix should be notified.
 
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RichT:
That’s great, and I for one commend those parents who do instill the love of Christ into the children. Unfortunately, we are the minority.
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There is nothing more painfully obvious than that!

Messing with “Perfect” however does not make things better!
 
I think that if it gets the kids to church, it can’t be that bad a thing. The evangelicals have been doing it for years, very successfully. For a lot of kids, it has caused them to go further and find out more about their faith and become more involved with it. In my parish, it has brought a lot of kids back to church and some of them have even begun evangelizing other kids and brought them back too.

I do agree that sometimes it gets a little far out, and I actually think that getting a little more in line with the GIRM wouldn’t be a bad idea.

In general, though, I think that if it works, don’t fix it.

:clapping:
 
I think that if it gets the kids to church, it can’t be that bad a thing
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Well I can think of many things which would entice a kid to go to church that would be “bad things”. The end does not justify the means.
 
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Mandi:
There is nothing more painfully obvious than that!

Messing with “Perfect” however does not make things better!
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Not sure what your referring to as “Perfect”. I haven’t seen a parish yet who does things perfectly. If you mean something else, please explain.
 
I get the feeling most of the complaints come from people who either don’t have teen aged children, or do not even attend a parish where life teen is held. In my experience, the teens, with the exception of a few, really enjoy life teen, as do their parents. My question is this. If you don’t have children, or have moved your children away from life teen, or simply have never been involved in life teen, why do you spend so much energy complaining about it? Aren’t there better things to focus your energy on? We have all agreed that there are abuses, afterall, there are abuses in the regular mass as well. The abuses are being addressed, and only time will tell how well they are addressed. Another thing, since Rome is being supportive of the Life Teen program, it would appear that it isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
 
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RichT:
Not sure what your referring to as “Perfect”. I haven’t seen a parish yet who does things perfectly. If you mean something else, please explain.
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No man does nothing perfect!

God however is all the is Perfect!

“From the beginning man has offered sacrifices in fulfillment of his obligations to God. Under the Old Law, sacrifices were divinely prescribed and regulated. At the temple in Jerusalem, smoke rose daily from the holocausts, and the blood of victims crimsoned the stones of the great altar. These sacrifices - pleaasing as they were to God - were but types and figures of the one great sacrifice to come -----that of Calvary.”

I have to keep going back to the 4 marks That Christ gave His Church. I believe He gave us these marks because things would become so confussing we would need to be able to recognize His Church.

Now many churchs are One, many are Catholic, many are Holy and many are Apostolic.

But only His Church contains ALL 4 marks. Teen Masses do NOT fall in the category of Holy, so they can NOT be part of “The Church of Christ”

It’s really not that hard. I challenge all who read these boards when you are sitting in Church (were ever that might be) look around and ask yourself …Is this holy? Than ask yourself why not…it’s suppose to be?

That is PERFECT - One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic
 
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RichT:
I get the feeling most of the complaints come from people who either don’t have teen aged children, or do not even attend a parish where life teen is held. In my experience, the teens, with the exception of a few, really enjoy life teen, as do their parents.
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I have 4 teenage children my oldest is 19 and my youngest is 14, they are appalled by the lack of reverence shown at teen Masses. I have a friend with 5 children her oldest loves the teen mass, the rest want to have a good time - “they’re way” without a need for church. Yes the girl that loves the teen mass is always trying to get my daughters to go with her. She says it’s great, we have bongo drums and electric guiter, its awesome, it’s such a great time, I just love them, you will too. Now I have a problem with her description of “a great time” - at no time does she mention God. Now when my daughters talk of church, they have nothing to say about the music (although they sing in the choir), they have nothing to say about a good time, what they do say is don’t schedule me to work, I go to Church, don’t invite me to a picnic I go to Church, I can’t go away for the weekend unless I’m home to go to Church. God comes first.

These are just 2 examples and even if the examples where reversed it would not change what is right. We all know for every good example for one, you can find a bad example for the other and visa versa.

“But truth is an absolute” - Now I have taken heat from people for this statement before. …So -

Our human intellects are intensely hungry for knowledge. They seek truth and are satisfied only by truth. Now, God not only is true and possesses truth, God is uncreated truth itself. All human truth is but a reflection of the Truth which is God.
 
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RichT:
I get the feeling most of the complaints come from people who either don’t have teen aged children, or do not even attend a parish where life teen is held. In my experience, the teens, with the exception of a few, really enjoy life teen, as do their parents.
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Ha… I used to BE in Lifeteen… I realized after some time that it was not Catholic, and around that time frame, a friend of mine introduced me to the Latin Mass… enough said.
 
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Mandi:
There is a perfect solution. God - Who is perfect, gave us the perfect sacrifice - “The Mass” He gave us perfect examples “The Saints”. He gave us a perfect Mother - “Mary”. And He gave us the perfect teaching tool “The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church”.

It is man who somewhat resembling Lucifer, thinking they are smarter than God. Has messed around and played with that which is “Perfect” and made it “unperfect”. We are called not just to love God but to become holy. The LifeTeen masses do not resemble holy, so how could one become holy?

I asked my father the other day why all this loving God seemed so fake to me. He answered simply - Because is lacks justice.
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While God is, indeed, perfect, He left the Church in the hands of us poor human beings who are far from perfect. God knew what would happen – that we would muck things up good and that the Holy Spirit would have a full-time job keeping us on the right track. Yet, that was Plan A, and God never had a Plan B.

Let’s not expect perfection from imperfect beings. Rather, let’s expect that the Church will do what She is called to do – continue the salvific mission of Christ on earth. She does so imperfectly using flawed human beings. But, then again, that’s all we have to work with here.

Deacon Ed
 
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Mandi:
Well said MaryChelan!

Speaking as the mother of 4 teenagers, I let my kids know right from day one. Mass was not about having a good time, it is about doing what God wants you to do. The 4 reasons way you go to Mass
  1. Adoration - to love and worship God
  2. Ask forgiveness for your sins and the sins of man kind
  3. To make reparation - for above sins
  4. Petition - To ask God for the things you desire
If you’re looking for a good time - go to the movies!
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Mandi,

Why do you think that worshipping god and having a good time are incompatible? It happens that I love going to Mass or to the Divine Liturgy (I’m a bi-ritual deacon and serve both a Latin parish and a Melkite parish). Many of the kids I know from LifeTeen are in the church a good hour before Mass spending time in prayer. Most attend our regular Eucharistic Adoration and Benediction. Many volunteer their time in social justice work.

Oh, the Mass is directed to God for our benefit. God doesn’t need our worship, but we need to worship Him. The Eucharist is, of course, our spiritual sustenance. It is for us that God died. Again you seem to be making a distinction where the Church does not, and cannot. In the Baltimore Catechism the “ends” of the Mass were made clear:

  1. *]To honor and glorify God;
    *]To thank Him for all the graces bestowed on the whole world;
    *]To satisfy God’s justice for the sins of men;
    *]To obtain all graces and blessings.

    Clearly this latter is to benefit us (you phrased it as asking for what we want but it’s more properly what we need for salvation). It is this last aspect that makes the Mass be for us.

    Deacon Ed
 
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Mandi:
These are just 2 examples and even if the examples where reversed it would not change what is right. We all know for every good example for one, you can find a bad example for the other and visa versa.
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Okay, so you have two examples. So what? My point is that so many people are complaining about something based off a couple of personal experiences, or even worse, no experiences at all. If it doesn’t work for you, that’s okay. Just don’t go. Otherwise, why spend so much energy on the topic at all? It works for many people, including many teen’s who otherwise would just fall through the cracks. It’s a start, you know, progress, not perfection.
 
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RichT:
By the way, whats so bad about segregating the teens and giving them a chance to talk, and share there fears with their peer’s. I’d rather see this happening in a church setting and not during lunch at the local public school. Believe me, I can tell you some stories about what happens when teens have to vent their frustrations to thier friends at school where prayer isn’t allowed.
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Mass is not about isolation of a particular group, be it teenagers, adults, etc. It is about the unity of all the Church, the Eucharists being the sacrament of unity. Neither is Mass about sharing of feelings and discussion. Both of these things you speak of, specialized groups and discussion, could be more easily achieved in a different setting. My parish does not have life teen Mass but it does have young adult groups and youth groups who have dinner some nights and meet every week or month or so. Mass is about worship, not discussion.
 
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