"Life Teen" Liturgy and it's destruction of centuries of Holy Tradition

[Topher]

“The rest of us in the Real World”?
So this means that we are not in the real world?

Come on back when you have kids and we’ll talk. I thought the same thing before kids. Now I know that the best way to teach a child to live Christ’s commandments is to live them yourself along with the CCD they attend.
Telling a child to do something is never as good as showing an example.

(we had Jesus parties at my old “Catholic Community”, trust me)

Hey. I am the oldest of six and my parents did a pretty good job of raising us in the Catholic faith. They didn’t waste time with old Slavoniv or latin. Rather they spent their time teaching us to follow the commandments of Christ and his Church and they lead by example. And you know what? All of us haver turned out or are turning out as solidlly orthodox Catholics. Come back and talk when your child is older and has rejected the Catholic faith because you were more concerned with gregorian chant than with Christ.
And I think that this whole “Jesus Party” thing that you keep refereing to is simply absurd. How dare you refer to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as a “Jesus Party” just because you don’t like the music. Have you no reverance for Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrment?

 

[Topher]

Strider:

After all of the discussion above, this is what it comes down to:
If, at any time in the last two thousand years, the Church had accommodated any, and I mean any, current culture, we would be just another Christian denomination.
Respect the young enough to bring them up to the level of mature devotion. When we “meet them where they are,” we lower ourselves to trying to be like them, thus losing their respect and our dignity.
Done properly, lifting them up by demanding more of them will gain not only their respect but their gratitude.
Such is my experience, gained as with most experience, at the expense of much pain and frustration.

What are you talking about. The church accomodated medevel culture by using gregorian chant in the mass. It accomodated the classical period by allowing motzart in the mass. we can keep going on and on. You must remember that the kind of music that alot of you think is necessary to the mass, was also new at one time.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Michael Welter:

I’ve seen several of you state that the style of music played at a Life Teen Mass is fine outside of Mass, but wrong at Mass. I can’t help but wonder, what is it about the Mass that takes something that is otherwise fine, and makes it wrong?

No comment on this question?

 

[netmilsmom]

Topher:

Hey. I am the oldest of six and my parents did a pretty good job of raising us in the Catholic faith. They didn’t waste time with old Slavoniv or latin. Rather they spent their time teaching us to follow the commandments of Christ and his Church and they lead by example. And you know what? All of us haver turned out or are turning out as solidlly orthodox Catholics. Come back and talk when your child is older and has rejected the Catholic faith because you were more concerned with gregorian chant than with Christ.
And I think that this whole “Jesus Party” thing that you keep refereing to is simply absurd. How dare you refer to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as a “Jesus Party” just because you don’t like the music. Have you no reverance for Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrment?

I would like to suggest friend, that you tone down your insults.
I have never hit an abuse button on anyone here and I don’t want to start with you.

I have reverence for Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrament when He is there. You have no clue about the kind of parish I came from and the abuses that went on there. You are getting awfully passionate with a disregard for whom you are speaking to and what she has lived through. Because I understand that this is something that you feel greatly about, I will overlook your narrow view of my experience.

However, until you have stood in my shoes, attempting to raise good Catholic children in a parish that had total disregard for the Eucharist, you have no right to judge. You may have been a child but you are totally clueless about how to raise one until you are there.

You have, in fact proven the point I was making. Your parents taught you by example. As I am with my children.

 

[netmilsmom]

Michael Welter:

No comment on this question?

Here’s my comment.
Wearing a tux is not appropriate at work.
Wearing a tutu is not appropriate at a restaurant.

Things have their place.
As I tell my kids, running and jumping is for the playground, not for inside the house.

I love the songs we do at our Kids for Jesus Club. Even the teens who volunteer sing them. They are catchy!
We sang one of them at a Holy Mass. It was a love song about the Eucharist. None of the Pop songs have ever been sung.
That is appropriate in our church.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

What are you talking about. The church accomodated medevel culture by using gregorian chant in the mass. It accomodated the classical period by allowing motzart in the mass. we can keep going on and on. You must remember that the kind of music that alot of you think is necessary to the mass, was also new at one time.

Toss out that rubbish about Gregorian Chant being a medieval thing. Or that about Mozart. You see, up until now, Gregorian Chant was always used in the Mass. Why? I’ll let you in on a secret:

It’s been around since apostolic times!

That is right. It is a Latin form of the mode in which the Jews prayed the psalms. In which Jesus prayed the psalms.

It is as close as you can come to praying a Jesus and His apostles prayed.

The medieval thing is all a Protestant myth, which was adopted by “progressive Catholics”.

 

[palmas85]

Michael Welter:

Actually, neither. I obey (or try to) those that apply to me personally. For example, I don’t obey those that are given for priests, or women.

How about you?

I try to obey as best I can. I just don’t pick and choose. Not saying you do of course.

 

[palmas85]

Topher:

Modernists have the problem that they reject all tradition. Ultratrads have the problem of rejecting evertying new even if it is not heretical.

I thought the term Ultra Trad fell under the same category as Rad Trad or was I wrong there?

 

[netmilsmom]

palmas85:

I thought the term Ultra Trad fell under the same category as Rad Trad or was I wrong there?

That’s what I thought.

 

[Michael_Welter]

palmas85:

I thought the term Ultra Trad fell under the same category as Rad Trad or was I wrong there?

 

[palmas85]

Michael Welter:

I’ve seen several of you state that the style of music played at a Life Teen Mass is fine outside of Mass, but wrong at Mass. I can’t help but wonder, what is it about the Mass that takes something that is otherwise fine, and makes it wrong?

I’ll take a stab at it. Many people, myself included, believe that the Mass is a solemn prayerful event in which we recall the sacrifice that Christ Jesus made for us by dying that lingering, painful death on the cross. It is the sacrifice that is primary and the celebration of the Lords Supper secondary. So by that measure, music that is shall we say less then reverent is inappropriate. For instance, I love Soca music from Trinidad as well as old style Calypso. Wonderful music, contagious beats and a whole lot of fun. Great for parties. Not so good at something as solemn as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I also enjoy Bounce Rap. Little Wayne ,Juvenile etc. Great stuff, edgy, maybe a little heavy on the gangster side, but good at parties and clubs. I wouldn’t think it would fit in at Mass however.

While I am no fan of Gregorian Chant by and large, it does have a solemn dignity and reverence that most, not all, modern music seriously lacks. Some of the music at Life Teen Masses or regular Masses for that matter is fine. Others, push the envelope and others cross the line.

All too often we think that the Mass is for our enjoyment and our edification. It is sometimes good to remember that the Mass is the bloodless recreation of the sacrifice and death of our Lord and Saviour, Christ Jesus at Calvary, and it really deserves more dignity and respect then it is sometimes given…

 

[Michael_Welter]

palmas85,

Excellent explanation! Thanks. While I agree in spirit, I also believe that Christ’s sacrifice recalled in the Mass, is the greatest thing to ever happen to mankind. That’s why Mass is referred to as a celebration. For some, that celebration is best when done in a solemn manner. For others, it is cause for joy.

 

[palmas85]

Michael Welter:

palmas85,

Excellent explanation! Thanks. While I agree in spirit, I also believe that Christ’s sacrifice recalled in the Mass, is the greatest thing to ever happen to mankind. That’s why Mass is referred to as a celebration. For some, that celebration is best when done in a solemn manner. For others, it is cause for joy.

Good points, and I agree fully that it is the greatest thing that has ever happened to mankind. I guess that as long as the spirit of reverence and awe is truly there everything else can fall into place.

 

[MrS]

Michael Welter:

palmas85,

Excellent explanation! Thanks. While I agree in spirit, I also believe that Christ’s sacrifice recalled in the Mass, is the greatest thing to ever happen to mankind. That’s why Mass is referred to as a celebration. For some, that celebration is best when done in a solemn manner. For others, it is cause for joy.

Might you consider rewording this?

It sounds like: “Do you preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ “or” the Gospel of the Catholic Church?”

The solemn, quiet, reverent manner is an innermost, heartfelt, cause for joy.

 

[Michael_Welter]

palmas85:

Good points, and I agree fully that it is the greatest thing that has ever happened to mankind. I guess that as long as the spirit of reverence and awe is truly there everything else can fall into place.

I think we’re in complete agreement on that. :yup:

MrS:

Might you consider rewording this?

It sounds like: “Do you preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ “or” the Gospel of the Catholic Church?”

The solemn, quiet, reverent manner is an innermost, heartfelt, cause for joy.

Yes, you are right. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that a solemn Mass isn’t a cause for joy. I guess I’m just saying that different people express that joy in different ways. For some, that means a solemn Mass. For others, it means a Life Teen Mass. As long as it is done according to Church rules, and with reverence and awe, it is a valid celebration.

 

[twiztedseraph]

I appreciate soft acoustic guitar music in mass. It is very conductive to prayer at times. I am a teen, but I do prefer the Organ. I just detest some of LifeTeens music, especially the drums. The fact that they don’t kneel when the Sacrifice of Calvary is Present on the Altar scares and horrifies me.

 

[vluvski]

twiztedseraph:

The fact that they don’t kneel when the Sacrifice of Calvary is Present on the Altar scares and horrifies me.

Rightfully so. However, this problem is not inherent or exclusive to Life Teen liturgies.

 

[twiztedseraph]

vluvski:

Rightfully so. However, this problem is not inherent or exclusive to Life Teen liturgies.

Don’t remind me. And don’t even let me get started on the problems a “rock” mass presents to one’s spirituality.

 

[vluvski]

twiztedseraph:

Don’t remind me. And don’t even let me get started on the problems a “rock” mass presents to one’s spirituality.

Please do get started.
Why is that genre unfit for the Mass, and how is it problematic for one’s spirituality?

There are right ways to do things and wrong ways to do things. “Performing” a rock Mass to the detriment of reverence and awe toward the Eucharist is clearly wrong, not because it is a rock Mass, but because it has drawn attention away from the focus of the Mass.

Good musicians understand how to use music to set the proper mood, and invoke within us an appropriate reverence, joy, praise, solemnity, penance… anything that is appropriate to that particular Mass at that particular moment. When music is executed poorly, it is the poor execution that is distracting, not the music itself. For example, my stomach turns over at some Masses where every single song is played grossly under tempo, or without a tempo at all. I find it very hard to focus on my prayer when my ears are throbbing from wrong notes and off-key cantors.

I realize some people find a particular genre more or less conducive to their prayer and focus during Mass, and this is perfectly legitimate. However, please respect that others are more uplifted by their music than yours.

I think what needs to be avoided is sensationalism, and this largely depends on audience. Novelty acts, like bringing in “Stomp” with their garbage can lids to play for Mass, are not appropriate. Playing a nose flute at Mass is likewise inappropriate. If I went to a Mass in the Caribean, I would not be surprised or alarmed to witness steel drums at Mass; in other parts of the world, it would make people feel as though they’re on the beach getting ready to down a margarita. Many people find bagpipe music offensive, yet in Scotland I suspect it is not unusual at Mass. I went to a Mass not long ago with a setting reminiscent of a mariachi band. I didn’t like it, but I am not going to accuse the musicians of hijacking the service with an unholy style.
And why is it necessary to limit ourselves to Western music, like Gregorian chant or classical? Are Eastern scales inappropriate because they employ quarter steps, and not just half step increments like a Western chromatic scale?

 

[Topher]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

I would like to suggest friend, that you tone down your insults.
I have never hit an abuse button on anyone here and I don’t want to start with you.

I have reverence for Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrament when He is there. You have no clue about the kind of parish I came from and the abuses that went on there. You are getting awfully passionate with a disregard for whom you are speaking to and what she has lived through. Because I understand that this is something that you feel greatly about, I will overlook your narrow view of my experience.

However, until you have stood in my shoes, attempting to raise good Catholic children in a parish that had total disregard for the Eucharist, you have no right to judge. You may have been a child but you are totally clueless about how to raise one until you are there.

You have, in fact proven the point I was making. Your parents taught you by example. As I am with my children.

Nor do you have right to judge. And don’t press an abuse button just because some one has strong opions. Come on we are all made of tougher stuff than that. And I think that your view point is very narrow. You judge life teen and contermporary music based only on a bad experience at what sounds like a liberal parish. You all need to look outside of your small experience. My parish is very strict when it comes to Liturgical correctness, extremely orthodox, extremely devout (one of the few parishes where one has to wait in line from 30 minutes to two hours to go to confession, depending on what day of the week it is), and has an extreme reverance for and devotion to the Eucharist. And this is in no way harmed by our Life Teen Mass on Sunday evening. In fact Life Teen only encourages our teen agers to seek the sacraments more often. That is why when I go into the blessed sacrament Chapel, (We have perpetual adoration), I find teenagers devoutly worshiping our Lord Jesus Christ. That is why I find tons of our teenagers waiting an hour in line on Saturday, or half an hour on the week days, to go to Confession. And guess what, it didn’t take gregorian chant to get them their.