"Life Teen" Liturgy and it's destruction of centuries of Holy Tradition

[Dr.Bombay]

Topher:

Christ is more impressed with a humble and contrite soul than with the style of music that you like.

Really? Having personal locutions from Our Lord and Saviour are we?

What else is he impressed with? The Patriots defense? HDTV? Indoor plumbing?

Do tell…

 

[Topher]

Dr. Bombay:

Really? Having personal locutions from Our Lord and Saviour are we?

What else is he impressed with? The Patriots defense? HDTV? Indoor plumbing?

Do tell…

Wow. I thought that you were a thinking man. This is so absurd that it is not worth responding to.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Topher:

What we are saying is that it is good and orthodox and very effective at brining teens to Christ and his Church.

When it is done correctly that is. My parish has started lifeteen a year ago; people wonder why I don’t go and aid the teens. It’s because lifeteen is not for me and it never was. It was not the music and the people that brought me to mass, it was the mass itself that brought me to it. When I discovered what the mass was; then I realized how important it was. I told my pastor that youth ministry does not interest me, which is why I am involved with RCIA.

 

[netmilsmom]

Dr. Bombay:

Really? Having personal locutions from Our Lord and Saviour are we?

What else is he impressed with? The Patriots defense? HDTV? Indoor plumbing?

Do tell…

Some posters presume to know people’s thoughts here.

I do have to tell you that I feel one of the biggest blessings that God has given us is indoor plumbing.
It’s 34 here this morning.

 

[vluvski]

**When it is done correctly that ** is. My parish has started lifeteen a year ago; people wonder why I don’t go and aid the teens. It’s because lifeteen is not for me and it never was. It was not the music and the people that brought me to mass, it was the mass itself that brought me to it. When I discovered what the mass was; then I realized how important it was. I told my pastor that youth ministry does not interest me, which is why I am involved with RCIA.

Any program can be executed well or executed poorly. A lot of great, faithful, traditional Catholics have come out of Life Teen. Many of the same have come out of other youth programs, or simply stumbled upon it themselves. You’re also going to get some lukewarm Catholics coming out of these programs, too. Some youth just aren’t ready to accept and understand that Mass.
If I never try the delicious steak at Outback, I’m never going to get a hankering to go to Outback for a steak. If a friend says, “hey, meet me at Outback,” maybe you’ll be inclined to try it. You can’t get people to be drawn to the Mass for the sake of itself if they aren’t actually going to Mass. In many parishes, the people and the music at Life Teen draw them to Mass. It is of utmost importance to use Life Nights to explain the Mass, so they will understand and be drawn back each time with a greater appreciation for the Eucharist.
You can’t expect everyone to reach that level of appreciation, but at least they’re going to something Catholic and not a fun protestant youth group or Young Life or something like that. I’d rather keep them at a Catholic church at the expense of a ‘peppier’ liturgy than let them float away to oblivion because no one could reach them to show them what they’re really looking for.
Every single one of us, at some point, had an awakening to realize that the Mass is something unique and amazing that we can’t get anywhere else. People can first be drawn to the Mass for reasons other than the Mass itself or the Eucharist. I think we have both the responsibility to guide them to the Mass, and guide them to a desire to be at Mass even without what drew them there in the first place.

 

[ncjohn]

When it’s all said and done, I have to believe that God has more than one lure in His tackle box and knows how to tie the right fly for the season.

What works in the spring doesn’t work in the fall.What works for a salmon doesn’t work for a sailfish.

If we’re going to be “fishers of men” we’d better learn to use all the lures we have. You still have to attract the fish before you reel them in.

Peace,

 

[Topher]

Psalm45:9:

When it is done correctly that is. My parish has started lifeteen a year ago; people wonder why I don’t go and aid the teens. It’s because lifeteen is not for me and it never was. It was not the music and the people that brought me to mass, it was the mass itself that brought me to it. When I discovered what the mass was; then I realized how important it was. I told my pastor that youth ministry does not interest me, which is why I am involved with RCIA.

Good for you. Not everyone is called to youth ministry. I am and thanks be to God, the LORD has used me as fruitfully as his unwrothy tool in this ministry. You have been called to instruct adults in RCIA. That is wonderful.

 

[Topher]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Some posters presume to know people’s thoughts here.

I do have to tell you that I feel one of the biggest blessings that God has given us is indoor plumbing.
It’s 34 here this morning.

Yeah, like when the ultra tradtionalists presume to know the heart of every Catholic. They claim to know that a person is not being reverant if that person sings music that is other than Gregorian chant in mass. How can they know the internal disposition of such a person. Perhaps all ultra traditonalists are given mind reading powers.

 

[Topher]

vluvski:

Any program can be executed well or executed poorly. A lot of great, faithful, traditional Catholics have come out of Life Teen. Many of the same have come out of other youth programs, or simply stumbled upon it themselves. You’re also going to get some lukewarm Catholics coming out of these programs, too. Some youth just aren’t ready to accept and understand that Mass.
If I never try the delicious steak at Outback, I’m never going to get a hankering to go to Outback for a steak. If a friend says, “hey, meet me at Outback,” maybe you’ll be inclined to try it. You can’t get people to be drawn to the Mass for the sake of itself if they aren’t actually going to Mass. In many parishes, the people and the music at Life Teen draw them to Mass. It is of utmost importance to use Life Nights to explain the Mass, so they will understand and be drawn back each time with a greater appreciation for the Eucharist.
You can’t expect everyone to reach that level of appreciation, but at least they’re going to something Catholic and not a fun protestant youth group or Young Life or something like that. I’d rather keep them at a Catholic church at the expense of a ‘peppier’ liturgy than let them float away to oblivion because no one could reach them to show them what they’re really looking for.
Every single one of us, at some point, had an awakening to realize that the Mass is something unique and amazing that we can’t get anywhere else. People can first be drawn to the Mass for reasons other than the Mass itself or the Eucharist. I think we have both the responsibility to guide them to the Mass, and guide them to a desire to be at Mass even without what drew them there in the first place.

This is one of the most thoughtful and intelligent posts on this thread that I have read.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Well said, John!

Personally, I refuse to put God in a box and tell Him he can only work through Gregorian Chant. I know God is bigger than that.

 

[MrS]

Topher:

Yeah, like when the ultra tradtionalists presume to know the heart of every Catholic. *They claim to know that a person is not being reverant if that person sings music that is other than Gregorian chant in mass. *How can they know the internal disposition of such a person. Perhaps all ultra traditonalists are given mind reading powers.

I would hope to be labeled a traditionalist (what is an ultra-T?).

I don’t know anyone’s heart, as God took that ability unto Himself.

I do know, however, what the Church has encouraged all (Catholics, and other Christians who belong to the Body of Christ) to do with regards to the liturgy. This would include Gregorian of course! The NO, and the abuses-become-norms are not encouraged by the Church…only permitted. B16 might have other ideas in October as he leads us out of the 40 years since VatII of wandering in the desert of ambiguities.

So my concern is not for what is in your heart. It is what is in your mind (not necessarily yours) when the liturgy “needs to be changed”. It just smacks of “The Liturgy is more about me than about Him” …IMHO

 

[MrS]

vluvski:

Any program can be executed well or executed poorly. A lot of great, faithful, traditional Catholics have come out of Life Teen. Many of the same have come out of other youth programs, or simply stumbled upon it themselves. You’re also going to get some lukewarm Catholics coming out of these programs, too. Some youth just aren’t ready to accept and understand that Mass.
If I never try the delicious steak at Outback, I’m never going to get a hankering to go to Outback for a steak. If a friend says, “hey, meet me at Outback,” maybe you’ll be inclined to try it. You can’t get people to be drawn to the Mass for the sake of itself if they aren’t actually going to Mass. In many parishes, the people and the music at Life Teen draw them to Mass. It is of utmost importance to use Life Nights to explain the Mass, so they will understand and be drawn back each time with a greater appreciation for the Eucharist.
You can’t expect everyone to reach that level of appreciation, but at least they’re going to something Catholic and not a fun protestant youth group or Young Life or something like that. I’d rather keep them at a Catholic church at the expense of a ‘peppier’ liturgy than let them float away to oblivion because no one could reach them to show them what they’re really looking for.
Every single one of us, at some point, had an awakening to realize that the Mass****is something unique and amazing that we can’t get anywhere else. People can first be drawn to the Mass for reasons other than the Mass itself or the Eucharist. I think we have both the responsibility to guide them to the Mass, and guide them to a desire to be at Mass even without what drew them there in the first place.

And a lot of great Catholics have come out of anti-Catholics theologies. But I would not wish those theologies to continue to be a “possible” source of strong Catholics. Those great Catholics came home because they sought out something MORE than what they had. If Life Teen has that as its goal…good. If it is not the goal, but an end of itself… bad!

If they understand and are drawn to something more, I am for it. Because I believe there IS something more.

Yes it is great when we realize that the Mass is unique. But let’s keep the word unique… it does not allow for variations, innovations, experiments, etc or it is no longer unique.

Your use of Outback is good. My son (been working there about 1.5 years now) has often explained how tight (rigid) the rules are. If you go to one Outback and order a 16oz Prime Rib (and I do), and then order again in another state…it had better be the same size and done the same way. They will actually reduce (cut away and dispose of) some of Prime Rib if it were to weigh say 18ozs. Consistency and dependability are so important. And the meat cutters are rewarded when then have little or no waste!

If the bishops (Outback Proprietors) could demand such consistency and dependability in the Liturgy, at least we would know what we have… and it is a lot better than Prime Rib. And the priests who help should be rewarded too…

And if you don’t care for it… go to Lonestar.

 

[netmilsmom]

MrS:

If the bishops (Outback Proprietors) could demand such consistency and dependability in the Liturgy, at least we would know what we have… and it is a lot better than Prime Rib. And the priests who help should be rewarded too…

.

Amen!

 

[vluvski]

MrS:

And a lot of great Catholics have come out of anti-Catholics theologies. But I would not wish those theologies to continue to be a “possible” source of strong Catholics. Those great Catholics came home because they sought out something MORE than what they had. If Life Teen has that as its goal…good. If it is not the goal, but an end of itself… bad!

Great Catholics come out of anti-Catholic theologies IN SPITE OF that theology.
Most great Catholics coming out of Life Teen are better off BECAUSE OF Life Teen.
I firmly believe that the founders of Life Teen realize that seeking the fullness of the Truth of the Catholic Church is the end goal of the program. I will concede that some individual Life Teen programs, perhaps even many, have strayed from this goal. This is highly unfortunate, but is a problem with leadership, not the program itself.
To discount Life Teen as rubbish because some programs are executed poorly would be the same as discounting the entire Catholic Church because a handful of parishes got flaky.

 

[netmilsmom]

Michael Welter:

Well said, John!

Personally, I refuse to put God in a box and tell Him he can only work through Gregorian Chant. I know God is bigger than that.

I’d like to know why some of the posters here are stuck on Gregorian Chant. I never even mentioned it and was told that I prefer it over Christ.

 

[MrS]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

I’d like to know why some of the posters here are stuck on Gregorian Chant. I never even mentioned it and was told that I prefer it over Christ.

I do too… like coming from a loft in the back of the church overlooking the pews where the people are bowed in prayer, and overlooking the sancturary which is the holy place where Christ waits for us to come to Him.
:tiphat:

 

[Topher]

MrS:

I would hope to be labeled a traditionalist (what is an ultra-T?).

I don’t know anyone’s heart, as God took that ability unto Himself.

I do know, however, what the Church has encouraged all (Catholics, and other Christians who belong to the Body of Christ) to do with regards to the liturgy. This would include Gregorian of course! The NO, and the abuses-become-norms are not encouraged by the Church…only permitted. B16 might have other ideas in October as he leads us out of the 40 years since VatII of wandering in the desert of ambiguities.

So my concern is not for what is in your heart. It is what is in your mind (not necessarily yours) when the liturgy “needs to be changed”. It just smacks of “The Liturgy is more about me than about Him” …IMHO

Which is what it seems like when Ultra tradtionalist wail and moan and gnash their teeth over masses that do not use gregorian chant. I seems like utlra tradtionalists are making the mass more about themselves then about Jesus. “I don’t like the music. It doesn’t fit my personal preferences, so I am gonna complain.”

 

[Topher]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

I’d like to know why some of the posters here are stuck on Gregorian Chant. I never even mentioned it and was told that I prefer it over Christ.

I mention gregorian chant because you seem to have a problem with modern worship music, (God knows why because no one has presented a well thought out and intelligent reason for rejecting modern worship music) and gregorian chant is the alternative. Futhermore, that is was Ultra tradionalist almost universially demand. It is almost as if they believe that the consecreation of the Eucharist is impossible without it.

 

[Topher]

MrS:

I do too… like coming from a loft in the back of the church overlooking the pews where the people are bowed in prayer, and overlooking the sancturary which is the holy place where Christ waits for us to come to Him.
:tiphat:

The reason that such a thing was suggested about ultra traditionalist is because they attack a good, orthodox organization that is all about Jesus, brings teen to Jesus, and is centered around Jesus in the Eucharist just because Ultra traditonalits do not like modern worship music in the mass. That is indeed trying to make gregorian chant more important than Jesus in one’s life.

 

[Topher]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

I’d like to know why some of the posters here are stuck on Gregorian Chant. I never even mentioned it and was told that I prefer it over Christ.

The reason that such a thing was suggested about ultra traditionalist is because they attack a good, orthodox organization that is all about Jesus, brings teen to Jesus, and is centered around Jesus in the Eucharist just because Ultra traditonalits do not like modern worship music in the mass. That is indeed trying to make gregorian chant more important than Jesus in one’s life.