"Life Teen" Liturgy and it's destruction of centuries of Holy Tradition

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MICHEAL WELTER:
The same could be said of the organ. It was used for secular music long before it became used for sacred.
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The organ was used for secular music long after it became instituted into the liturgy. Many musical pieces of the Baroque period use the organ. The organ was the primary instrument in theaters. The silent movies of the 1920s often had a written organ accompinament for the theater. If you watch the re-runs of old soap operas from the 50s and 60s you’ll still hear the organ in the background.

Handel’s oratorios have the organ used in it, becuase they were sung in theater’s not chuches. There were protests when Handel released his most famous oratorio, Messiah, because it was set in a secular setting, the theater.
 
Yes, but when the organ was secular, secular music was not vulgar, as it is to-day.
 
The guitar, violin, trumpet, etc. require talent to play. God gives those musicians that talent to praise His name. Played reverently, all of these instruments can be a beautiful tribute to God. My son plays the guitar and sings The Lord’s Prayer, Ave Maria, etc. Secular?? I have heard organists who can bring tears to my eyes with their gift., and those who bring a tear because he/she needs a few more lessons before playing before the parish. Seems to me that we generalize far too much.

Lets all sing God’s praises, thank Him for those who dedicate their time and talent to helping us sing…the musicians, whether they play the piano or flute.

Love and peace

Mom of 5
 
Servus Pio XII:
Yes, but when the organ was secular, secular music was not vulgar, as it is to-day.
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I agree with you. Handel’s oratorio, Messiah, does the Lord much more justice. Especially since Messiah was considered secular music in the 18th century, what a difference between what was considered secular in the past and what is considered secular today.
 
Servus Pio XII:
Yes, but when the organ was secular, secular music was not vulgar, as it is to-day.
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Some was quite vulgar, and certainly not all secular music of today is vulgar.
 
Psalm45:9:
I agree with you. Handel’s oratorio, Messiah, does the Lord much more justice. Especially since Messiah was considered secular music in the 18th century, what a difference between what was considered secular in the past and what is considered secular today.
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It does the Lord much more justice than what? I’m not quite sure that it is fair to take one of the more well known works by a brilliant composer that has had the fortune of being adopted as religious music (at least in many circles) and compare it with your run-of-the-mill secular song written today.

The music of the past has an advantage in that the mediocre is generally forgotten, especially with a lack of recording technology.

Here’s a nice secular piece from long ago that I’m sure would be readily adopted to religious purposes:

“A little white hen, a little white hen with fluffy feathers looks for food and golden grain.”

This madrigal has something of the musical effect of a little hen merrily pecking the ground.

Here’s another:

“Fair Phyllis I saw sitting all alone,
Feeding her flocks near to the mountainside.
The shepherds knew not whither she was gone,
But after her lover Amyntas hied:
Up and down he wander’d
While she was missing;
When he found her,
O, then they fell a kissing.”

(by John Farmer)
 
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Prometheum_x:
It does the Lord much more justice than what? I’m not quite sure that it is fair to take one of the more well known works by a brilliant composer that has had the fortune of being adopted as religious music (at least in many circles) and compare it with your run-of-the-mill secular song written today.
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OK, the secular American Opera; The Saint of Bleecker Street, written by the less known agnostic Gian Carlo Menotti, (in 1954) does the Lord more justice.

In Act One, Annina’s Good Friday vision of The Passion of Our Lord gave me goose bumps the first time I heard it. This secular aria would be perfect for Our Lady of Sorrows:

(As if pierced by an arrow Annina emits a stifled cry, her body suddenly convulses by pain.)

**Annina **(Still with eyes closed and a tormented expression on her face, as if fighting a fearful force.) “Ah, sweet Jesus, spare me this agony. Too great a pain is this for one so weak. Ah, my aching heart, must you again withstand the trial?”

(opening her eyes)

“Where am I? Who are these people? When have I seen this road before, when this barren hill? What is this drunken crowd waiting for? Ah, dreadful presentiment!”

(She gets up as if in a trance and slowly moves through the kneeling neighbors.)

“Eager and loud, they push and sway under the festival sun. What do they want? What are they waiting for?”

(She moves her arms as if fighting her way through a crowd.)

“I cannot see. Eh! Don’t push me. Let me see. Please make room for me. Oh! Oh! I see now, I see now! Oh blinding sight! Oh, pain! Oh, love!”

(starring intently ahead)

"They come up the bending road in golden armour, the soldiers, and among them a purple cloak. My Jesus! How large a cross for one man to bear! Dust in his mouth and salt of bitter tears, his cheeks dripping with blood shed by the sharp and cruel crown. Ah! But his eyes! Such patient love? Ah! He falters. They are on him with whips. He struggles on again!”

(Suddenly disturbed, her eyes search through the imaginary crowd.)

“Someone is weeping. Where? I see now a group of wailing women standing behind the crowd. Weakened by weeping, they sway like reeds as they slowly move. Tall amongst them, Her eyes deepened with pain, the Holy Virgin Stands. Why, Mary, why did you come? No cross can weigh nor nail can pierce as can a mother’s sorrow. Why, Mary, why did you come? Oh, women, take her home… When our God will die, only Her son will bear the agony. Oh take Her, take Her home. It is her very flesh that will be torn by spear and nail. Oh, take Her, take Her home. Oh, women, take Her home. No hill was ever higher. The whole world can see the Son of God, sweet Jesus standing there. His palm is now held open. Those Hands that gave us all, by us are to be pierced. Soldier, soldier, have mercy on Him. For He alone is you Saviour. The nail is held in place. The huge hammer is raised. Ah!

(With a piercing cry she falls back on the pillows)

Chorus of neighbors: “Oh how pail her cheeks! Christ has died."

(Annina’s limp hands slowly open, revealing the bleeding stigmata)
 
When I am out washing my car, I make sure I blare this opera, so It will cover the rap and hip-hop I’m hearing in my neighborhood. And so we have the war of secular music in my neighborhood.
 
Better Idea: Blare Inno E Marceles Ponificales!

That’ll strike some religion in these “neighbours” you speak of.
 
Here are 2 examples of Church-approved usage of “contemporary” worship music (i.e. acoustic guitars, piano, flute, …etc) at Mass:
  1. World Youth Day (>1 million youth every 3 years)
  2. Steubenville Youth Conferences (>30,000 teens every summer)
The Pope approves #1, and American bishops approve #2.
 
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Prometheum_x:
Nice straw man.

That’s about the same as saying, “The greatness of the Catholic Church” and then showing pictures of priests convicted in the sexual abuse scandal.
Trying to represent a group with such caricatures is akin to slander.
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No, I don’t believe it is. What a horrible example you give.

But maybe you think those pictures are that bad…
 
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Freeway4321:
No, I don’t believe it is. What a horrible example you give.

But maybe you think those pictures are that bad…
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It depends on their context as always…
As someone familiar with Life Teen (I used to run the program at my old parish), it looks like that may be core members dressed up for a skit, probably having something to do with sin… I am not alarmed or scandalized by them in anyway.

It is not unheard of for youth ministers to use imagery from popular movies, or spoof the same, to get a point across. I seem to remember a character from the Passion of the Christ that looked really similar to those portrayed in the picture…

This could also be from a Halloween costume contest, or something of that nature… we really can not tell. If I recall correctly, there were no captions with those pictures.

Standing alone we just don’t know the proper context of the pictures to pass judgement on them.

Now, if the pictures you posted were of a wet t-shirt contest, where the context could not be disputed you may have a valid gripe.

Just my thoughts.

In Christ,

Pisio
 
The way I see it: The Life-Teen people were stupid enough to post the pictures as examples of their organisation, so whyt should we not be able to critique them?
 
Servus Pio XII:
The way I see it: The Life-Teen people were stupid enough to post the pictures as examples of their organisation, so whyt should we not be able to critique them?
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A critique would imply discussing the merits and demerits of the pictures. If you want to be a:
bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

you can do this without looking at context. People on both sides of all issues do this all the time.

However if you want to be able to have an educated critique of the pictures, you would need to know more than just seeing the pictures themselves. You can not do a book report with out reading the book, or honestly critique a movie without seeing it. How can you “critique” pictures (read, consider the merits and demerits of the the pictures and judge accordingly), without knowing the artist, the characters and their intent?

In Christ,
Pisio
 
Servus Pio XII:
The way I see it: The Life-Teen people were stupid enough to post the pictures as examples of their organisation, so whyt should we not be able to critique them?
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You are calling them stupid? That is certainly charitable.
 
Something to consider …

If Queen Elizabeth were coming, would there be rock music or something much more dignified-sounding? The latter, right? How much more so should we play dignified-sounding music for the King of Kings!

Also, as I’m sure we all know, the Mass is a sacrifice – the one sacrifice of Calvary made present on our altars. Of course, Jesus doesn’t die again during the Mass, but we’re participating in His actual sacrifice as well, standing at the foot of the cross just like Our Lady and St. John. True, we’re also at the heavenly banquet with all the angels and saints in attendance. But we mustn’t emphasize one aspect to the detriment of the other. Would you strum guitars and beat on drums while standing at the foot of the cross while Jesus is suffering, bleeding, and dying? I think not.
 
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DavidJoseph:
Something to consider …

If Queen Elizabeth were coming, would there be rock music or something much more dignified-sounding? The latter, right? How much more so should we play dignified-sounding music for the King of Kings!

Also, as I’m sure we all know, the Mass is a sacrifice – the one sacrifice of Calvary made present on our altars. Of course, Jesus doesn’t die again during the Mass, but we’re participating in His actual sacrifice as well, standing at the foot of the cross just like Our Lady and St. John. True, we’re also at the heavenly banquet with all the angels and saints in attendance. But we mustn’t emphasize one aspect to the detriment of the other. Would you strum guitars and beat on drums while standing at the foot of the cross while Jesus is suffering, bleeding, and dying? I think not.
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But you are talking about human conventions concerning music and not divine ones. God has not put is divine stamp of approval on any particular syle of music.
 
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