Lifesite News, Church Militant - what is their strategy in attacking the Pope?

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AndrewAxland said:
Very likely. It has been the pattern with other churches like the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church USA, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in American, and several other smaller groups
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Our Protestant friends have an entirely different culture about splitting from one body and creating new ones. Often protestant congregations will move out as complete entities when establishing a new denomination or joining a new one. A new Catholic Traditionalist sect would need property, need a priest for east location as well as be able to organize like minded lay people to fill the pews.

The logistics as well as recruiting and paying for priests to defect, it just seems like a lot taller order than just convincing a United Presbyterian Church’s members to vote to leave.
 
If a homeless person has measles, giving them a lifetime coupon to Hometown Buffer would not good enough.

There are two different issues, and I think both should be resolved, instead of ignoring one or the other and patting ourselves in the back for being so “morally superior” or “socially woke”.

It’s puzzling to me how they (“conservative” and “liberal” issues) seem to be mutually exclusive in this day and age. There’s no logical reason for that to be the case.
 
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Augustinian said:
A new Catholic Traditionalist sect would need property, need a priest for east location as well as be able to organize like minded lay people to fill the pews.

The logistics as well as recruiting and paying for priests to defect, it just seems like a lot taller order
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It is a tall order, but that won’t stop a lot of them striking out to join other Churches (like the Orthodox, a la Dreher), already existing schismatic groups, of which there are several, or even establishing new groups (a la Mel Gibson’s father). Of course, a lot are dropping out due to natural demographic attrition.
NuclearReceptor said:
It’s puzzling to me how they (“conservative” and “liberal” issues) seem to be mutually exclusive in this day and age. There’s no logical reason for that to be the case.
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You are ignoring secular politics. Michael Voris, for example, has started labeling Catholics as (good) pro-Trump Catholics and (bad) anti-trump Catholics, with the strong implication that the latter are not real Catholics.

Also, the line is not between conservatives and progressives anymore. The line runs through the conservative faction, with rad-trads and ultraconservatives on the right, moderate conservatives and progressives on the left, and the remaining conservatives being forced to pick sides.
 
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When where you a “rad trad” or “ultra-conservative?”

Mary, Virgin of virgins, pray that we may resist all temptation towards schism, heresy and apostasy!
 
These labels are of the world, not of the Kingdom God intends for us.
 
Ryan1 said:
When where you a “rad trad” or “ultra-conservative?”
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Never. i’ve always been firmly within the progressive camp.
Ryan1 said:
Mary, Virgin of virgins, pray that we may resist all temptation towards schism, heresy and apostasy!
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Rad trads and ultra-conservatives seem to be thinking that schism is preferable than being together with what they consider heretics, under the leadership of a heretic pope. I’m not sure that they could resist that temptation for much longer. They have a strong need for ideological purity and conformity.
 
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FiveLinden said:
get the Pope to resign.

But if their theories are correct, what does this end achieve?
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They get a new pope, and they hope that it’s a pope more to their liking. Simple politics. Dirty, but simple politics.
 
Ryan1 said:
Washing the feet of women on Maundy Thursday is yet another break with our traditions.
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Perhaps you missed the Gospel last week. Let me refresh your memory:
[Jesus] responded, “Well did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me;
In vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines human precepts.’

You disregard God’s commandment but cling to human tradition.”
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“Washing feet on Maundy Thursday” is a human tradition. It’s not prescribed anywhere as a doctrinal precept. In fact, it’s a liturgical practice, which means that the Church (and in particular, the pope) has the authority to regulate it.

So, if the pope decided to modify that liturgical practice, it’s his prerogative to do so, and he does so completely licitly.

A “break with traditions” regarding washing feet… is a mighty poor (not to mention invalid) example of a lack of orthopraxy. 😉
 
Gorgias said:
They get a new pope, and they hope that it’s a pope more to their liking.
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Actually, I think that they have come to the conclusion that the next pope is going to be more like Pope Francis than like what they have in mind. Cardinal Marx’s chances are much better than Cardinal Sarah’s, for example.
 
What exactly is a “progressive” Catholic? What are the goals and aspirations? What is the “progressive Catholic”'s stance on western civilizations developments on sexuality, marriage, abortion, and contraception, and do those goals match what has been always taught by the Church?

Or do “progressive Catholics” not think they’re important issues anymore and are just outdated social norms?
 
Jesus broke with tradition. The Pope is not Jesus.
 
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AndrewAxland said:
You are ignoring secular politics. Michael Voris, for example, has started labeling Catholics as (good) pro-Trump Catholics and (bad) anti-trump Catholics, with the strong implication that the latter are not real Catholics.
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I haven’t been to Church Militant in a while. Do you have a link to his article?

It wouldn’t be surprising that pro-Trump Catholics are “conservative Catholics” and anti-Trump Catholics are “progressive Catholics”. Broadly speaking, one side would oppose gay marriage and expansion of abortion, and one side would focus on social justice issues, and some might even perhaps be OK with the homosexual lobby.

Trump isn’t the issue, per se. He’s just a correlation factor.
 
I can’t go through the entire site. Do you have an article that said anti-Trump Catholics are bad Catholics? I just see a bunch of articles with the phrase “anti-Trump” in various contexts.
 
You’ll have to do your own research. I was kind enough to provide you with plenty of sources.
 
God cannot arise a holy people out of the ashes unless there are first ashes.

It could be just a case of utter frustration with this issue and how the church has handled it. It’s been going on all of my life, and there’s no signs of it getting better.

I don’t think the church hierarchy has fully recognized the depth of the problem or how they are aiding and abetting it. They seem to think having the faithful fast and pray will fix it.

As Raymond Arroyo pointed out, there is no structure within the church for removing church hierarchy that refuse to deal with the problem. And, the initial quell with the Pennsylvania report and Vigano’s letter has died down already. There may be more bombshell moments, but, they too, will die down. I think the church’s senior leadership is counting on that.

All we have is our voices. If this outrages you as much as it does me, continue to speak… no matter how unpopular you become on this forum.
 
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