Lifeteen Mass - Why Are They Given A Pass on Reverence?

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ConstantineTG said:
Reverence is actually relative.
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Is that your opinion or is it what the Magisterium of the Church says? I ask this because your or my personal opinion doesn’t really matter here. As Catholics we submit ourselves to the teachings of the Church. This requires some measure of humility and a willingness to forego our personal whims.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Can you tell me what the Magisterium says?
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No I can’t off the top of my head. I wanted to know if you based your statement on personal opinion or the teaching of the Church. If you could show me that the Magisterium says reverence is relative, that would change things.
 
----De-cloak----
Reverence is relative in expression, as much as the actions and interpretations differ between culture.
Yet there is a specific definition to what is reverence, that is not relative.
Reverence is showing love and respect at the same time.

In the Roman Catholic Church at this time period we show profound reverence by kneeling and respecting the presence of God or a symbol of God. We can show respect by bowing and or standing in respect.
(In the Eastern Catholic Church that might be different.)
If you act the same as you would at a rock concert, a bar or a football game then there could be a bit of confusion of what type of action you are participating in.

If you are worshiping God as a Catholic, we have specific actions we participate in and an understanding that is different from any other faith. The Catholic Faith demands a special type of reverence that is not needed in other faith systems as we are participants in the Sacrifice of the God-Man for our Redemption and Salvation.

God Bless
Scylla
 
I would have to agree that reverence is relative. One person may reverently kneel, while another person may be kneeling on the outside but thinking all kinds of nasty thoughts on the inside, in other words, being totally irreverent. A person standing with hands raised singing “Our God is an Awesome God” and meaning every word is being reverent, while another person’s reverence might be expressed in silence. Romans 14:1-8 applies here. Granted, they are talking about the strong in faith accepting the weak in faith, but there is also an application for different interpretations of the word “reverence.”

Now as far as the Mass is concerned, certain actions or the prohibition of certain actions (kneeling at the consecration, staying off the altar, delivering the homily from the ambo, etc.) are set in stone (well, in print, but you know what I mean).
 
scylla said:
----De-cloak----
Reverence is relative in expression, as much as the actions and interpretations differ between culture.
Yet there is a specific definition to what is reverence, that is not relative.
Reverence is showing love and respect at the same time.

In the Roman Catholic Church at this time period we show profound reverence by kneeling and respecting the presence of God or a symbol of God. We can show respect by bowing and or standing in respect.
(In the Eastern Catholic Church that might be different.)
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Scylla beat me to it. 👍

So, in this culture (US/CA/UK/AU) we learn reverence in church from two main sources:
  1. our leadership by decree
  2. our elders by example
Can you blame the teens when they’re being pandered to?
 
Chris-WA said:
No I can’t off the top of my head. I wanted to know if you based your statement on personal opinion or the teaching of the Church. If you could show me that the Magisterium says reverence is relative, that would change things.
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I’m basing it on the fact that reverence is relative, as the posters above this one has proven.
 
Some people live on these forums to defend abuses in the Liturgy. If you read enough on these forums, it becomes obvious who these people are. Every time there is anything said to criticize abuses in the liturgy, these same people come out of the wood work to misrepresent things you say and make you prove everything you claim. Do not fall into their trap people. The best thing to do is ignore them and continue on with the discussion.

The sad fact is I can go to 30 different Catholic Churches now days and not find a Mass that is the same as the others. I can go to my home Church and everything is done reverently. I then go to the town of my birth and attend a Mass where the Priest calls for sign of peace and everyone in attendance walks all over the Church talking and shaking hands,during the Our Father people shoot across to connect hands with each other, etc. This is the reason people like me go out of our way to find an EF Mass to attend. I have never seen a TLM that is much different from every other. One thing for certain these forums have done for me is galvanized my will to fight for the rest of my life to make the Church return to its Traditional roots. I will not leave the Church, but I will do everything possible to make it the Church of my grandparents and not my parents.

Reverence definition is:
“A feeling or attitude of deep respect tinged with awe; veneration. Reverence involves a humbling of the self in respectful recognition of something perceived to be greater than the self.”

NOT
“A lack of deep respect tinged with noise. A cheering of the self in recognition of our own accomplishments.”
 
ByzCath said:
Just a question.

Who defines “reverence”?
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Good point.

It’s like the Supreme Court said a few years back: “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it.”

We also know irreverence when we see it.

The amazing thing about a “reverent Life Teen Mass” is that it’s a bit like the abominable snowman or flying saucers. Plenty of people claim to have seen them, but no one seems able to provide any evidence that they actually exist.

I hear the same thing all the time “The Life Teen Mass at MY parish is reverent.” But I have yet to see it with my own eyes, no matter how many times I do see a LT Mass.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Good point.

It’s like the Supreme Court said a few years back: “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it.”

We also know irreverence when we see it.

The amazing thing about a “reverent Life Teen Mass” is that it’s a bit like the abominable snowman or flying saucers. Plenty of people claim to have seen them, but no one seems able to provide any evidence that they actually exist.

I hear the same thing all the time “The Life Teen Mass at MY parish is reverent.” But I have yet to see it with my own eyes, no matter how many times I do see a LT Mass.
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It doesn’t exist. People can claim anything online.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Good point.

It’s like the Supreme Court said a few years back: “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it.”

We also know irreverence when we see it.

The amazing thing about a “reverent Life Teen Mass” is that it’s a bit like the abominable snowman or flying saucers. Plenty of people claim to have seen them, but no one seems able to provide any evidence that they actually exist.

I hear the same thing all the time “The Life Teen Mass at MY parish is reverent.” But I have yet to see it with my own eyes, no matter how many times I do see a LT Mass.
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haha! so true.
 
hudson said:
It doesn’t exist. People can claim anything online.
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Oh really? Well if that’s the case half of this board needs to be ignored, because have people “claiming” to see “abuses” all of the time. In fact, the next time you complain about something you’ve seen maybe we should just ignore it. After all, you said it online so it must be false!

Actually, by saying the above you’ve discredited the post you may previously.

The sad fact is I can go to 30 different Catholic Churches now days and not find a Mass that is the same as the others. I can go to my home Church and everything is done reverently. I then go to the town of my birth and attend a Mass where the Priest calls for sign of peace and everyone in attendance walks all over the Church talking and shaking hands,during the Our Father people shoot across to connect hands with each other, etc

How do I know if you’re telling the truth or not?

Reverent Life Teen Masses do exist, I’ve seen them several times. I’ve been to several over the last eight years.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Good point.The amazing thing about a “reverent Life Teen Mass” is that it’s a bit like the abominable snowman or flying saucers. Plenty of people claim to have seen them, but no one seems able to provide any evidence that they actually exist.
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This is funny, because people would probably turn around and say “NO CAMERAS INSIDE OF THE CHURCH!!!” People would also be specifically looking for anything close to resembling something wrong.

“That kid had one of his shoes untied. That’s total irreverence there, he should be wearing dress loafers to avoid such a thing from happening” (this is less extreme then you think - I got chewed out once at a FSSP parish for showing up wearing business casual in a pair of trousers and a plain black polo shirt).
 
Sorry this goes both ways. Every time someone sees an abuse they ask for proof. If anyone says that reverence is what it is, someone asks for proof from the Vatican. If someone says somethings not allowed in Mass because its inappropriate, they ask for proof it is forbidden in the rubrics. So I want proof a reverent Life Teen Mass exists. And for people that take a relativistic view on everything including reverence I recommend:

shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=17047
 
To be completely honest, as someone who is not very detached from his teenage years, I find the fact that the Church feels that they have to “stoop to our level,” so to speak, in order for us to go to mass and participate in the Church, is extremely insulting to my intelligence and that of others near my age. I think Lifeteen is awful for that very reason, that it inherently presumes that we are just young, dumb teenagers and we need a mass to fit that.
 
purplesunshine said:
www.stjosephwakefield.org/

www.stemarieparish.org/

www.stthomasderry.org/

www.stmonicamethuen.org/

www.lifeteenhanover.com/

www.assumptiondovernh.org/

www.stmaryslifeteen.com/

Here’s a list of parishes within an hour or two of me that have WONDERFUL programs and reverant masses.
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I’m not going to search through all those, do you have any videos that show what a reverent life teen Mass looks like?

Is this a good example of a reverent life teen Mass? It was the first video return on youtube when i typed in life teen Mass.
youtube.com/watch?v=dNcrhMiXQwI
 
hudson said:
I’m not going to search through all those, do you have any videos that show what a reverent life teen Mass looks like?

Is this a good example of a reverent life teen Mass? It was the first video return on youtube when i typed in life teen Mass.
youtube.com/watch?v=dNcrhMiXQwI
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I scanned through it, and it dosn’t even look like most of this event occurs DURING mass, though perhaps it does before. That would indicate to me the church has other problems, not necessarly with mass. Not to sound like a drone, but the going up around the alter has been strictly forbidden by Lifeteen. Lifeteen has disproved this action since 2003, more than enough time between that and the 2009 video.

I don’t personally have any videos. But Youtube really shouldn’t be counted as a legitimate news source
 
I guess that’s why the Priest concludes Mass after all of the video has taken place? That video was made to show life teen in a positive light…It failed in my opinion.
 
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