Lifeteen

[japhy]

This quote from the book is tieing the lifenight to the mass by using those common terms…getting that cross over to see that there is actually a “break” section in the Mass. the breaking bread, the homily…is “breaking it down”

Ok… but there shouldn’t be music during “the break”… unless LifeTeen envisions musical accompaniment during homilies?

 

[agapewolf]

Ok… but there shouldn’t be music during “the break”… unless LifeTeen envisions musical accompaniment during homilies?

agreed,but thats not what they were saying.

THey are talking about in a general sense…how the music is in service to the mass and what its function is. some churches, (lifeteen and otherwise) have played music during the consecration which is wrong and they shouldnt be doing that, but that is not what they are talking about here.

 

[benedictgal]

From what I have seen, the music at our LifeTeen Mass meets your criteria above…it “reflects” teen worship, and is “relevant” to them as well…

But, the music shouldn’t focus itself on the teen worship nor the teens themselves. It’s the danger of celebrating the community that Pope Benedict repeteadly cites as wrong.

The focus should lie on the proper worship of God as manifested in the Church’s highest prayer, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. When you make the “teens” more important than the liturgy, when you make them the thrust of what you are doing, then, that is wrong.

 

[benedictgal]

To Japhy:

In the lifenight plan, “Gather, proclaim, break, send”…the break is the breaking down of the teaching…small groups, or open discussion of some sort.

This quote from the book is tieing the lifenight to the mass by using those common terms…getting that cross over to see that there is actually a “break” section in the Mass. the breaking bread, the homily…is “breaking it down” …continued to the liturgy of the eucharist wiht the breaking bread. The mysteries becoming deeper to us, etc. No intermission or anything…just using common term to teach how the lifenight format is modeled from the mass.

Maybe if they used the proper terms for the liturgy instead of watering it down, then, there might not be confusion.

When you’re studying medicine, you need to learn the right terms so that you can make an accurate diagnosis. If you are studying law, you need to learn the proper wording and the citations of the law so that you can adequately defend your clients or prosecute the offenders.

The same principle needs to apply to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. If your own leaders don’t bother to use the correct terminology, how do you expect to teach the kids to have an appropriate Sensus Fideum?

You can defend the LifeTeen form of the Mass all you want, but, it does have some serious problems. The LifeTeen proponents have yet to defend themselves against the position that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist took when they noted that there were some serious problems with the music used at Youth Masses. Pope Benedict agreed when he said that one song is not as good as another as far as the Mass is concerned. Even the WYD founder, Pope John Paul II, two years before his death, said that there are some serious problems with the music used in Church today.

 

[MrS]

But, the music shouldn’t focus itself on the teen worship nor the teens themselves.** It’s the danger of celebrating the community** that Pope Benedict repeteadly cites as wrong.

The focus should lie on the proper worship of God as manifested in the Church’s highest prayer, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. When you make the “teens” more important than the liturgy, when you make them the thrust of what you are doing, then, that is wrong.

More and more Catholics are beginning to see/feel the difference between that horizontal liturgy (make it interesting, make it more fun, or I will lose my faith…blah, blah, blah), and the vertical Liturgy… (make it all about God for this one hour each week).

Perhaps some day we will have both, with more separate praise and worship services for families and for teens… and a nothing-but-reverent liturgy for those who actually attend Mass more times than Christmas and Easter.

.

 

[Denae]

If it’s good enough to be approved by the Vatican, it’s good enough for me.

 

[BSHoop96]

If it’s good enough to be approved by the Vatican, it’s good enough for me.

But as we have seen with many things…they might be approved by the Vatican but by the time they are incorporated into the parishes they often end up **not **being what was intended. Then abuses can really get out of hand before being reined in again.

 

[MrS]

Even the WYD founder, Pope John Paul II, two years before his death, said that there are some serious problems with the music used in Church today.

which brings up an interesting point… I wonder what kind of music and liturgy is planned for WYD this time around…

Will the Pope have to endure some one’s creativity?

Will we get some solid vertical liturgy to see on TV, or some aboriginal ideas from downunder…

 

[SacredHeartFan]

But, the music shouldn’t focus itself on the teen worship nor the teens themselves. It’s the danger of celebrating the community that Pope Benedict repeteadly cites as wrong.

The focus should lie on the proper worship of God as manifested in the Church’s highest prayer, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. When you make the “teens” more important than the liturgy, when you make them the thrust of what you are doing, then, that is wrong.

Lifeteen does not try to make the teens more important than the mass. It tries to make the mass more important to the teens. Myself included the majority of teens express themselves better in this kind of music than in Latin. We can all relate to this kind of music and it is more productive. That is the key. It attracts teens at first. Then it keeps them going to that mass. Third and last they grow attached to the mass and realize that it’s important. My friend has been coming with me to Lifeteen masses and is a better person all around and he annouced that he has a vocation to the priesthood. Now how can that type of mass be wrong? Some churches do go beyond the boundries of acceptable but light rock and jazz worship music is just fine. Heavy metal and rap are defintaly out of the question because they do not have a place in the mass.

 

[MrS]

Lifeteen does not try to make the teens more important than the mass.** It tries to make the mass more important to** the teens. Myself included the majority of teens express themselves better in this kind of music than in Latin. We can all relate to this kind of music and it is more productive. That is the key. It attracts teens at first. Then it keeps them going to that mass. Third and last they grow attached to the mass and realize that it’s important. My friend has been coming with me to Lifeteen masses and is a better person all around and he annouced that he has a vocation to the priesthood. Now how can that type of mass be wrong? Some churches do go beyond the boundries of acceptable but light rock and jazz worship music is just fine. Heavy metal and rap are defintaly out of the question because they do not have a place in the mass.

** It tries to make the mass more important to the teens.**
Did you really mean to say that… can one really “make” the Mass more important without changing something? That is so wrong.

Third and last they grow attached to the mass and realize that it’s important
But they “realize” that what they like is important.

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he has a vocation to the priesthood.
I wonder how he will react when the seminary tries to teach him the liturgy that is not what HE wants to celebrate. Would we rather have 10 priests celebrating a OF or EF, or 20 priests, half of whom are doing what teens want to “interest” them?

All in all, it sounds like a strong case of parents allowing the cart before the horse as they continue to fail in a catechisis that they themselves have never learned.

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[benedictgal]

If it’s good enough to be approved by the Vatican, it’s good enough for me.

There is such a thing as taking excessive liberties. Have you ever heard of the Neocatechumenal Movement? They thought that they had carte blanche to do whatever they wanted to with the Mass, operating under the same premise that you just stated. It wasn’t at all okay with the Vatican and Pope Benedict had to personally intervene. He also had Francis Cardinal Arinze make sure and tell the movement that it wasn’t just the Holy Father’s personal opinion, but, it was a matter of liturgical law that had to be followed.

Furthermore, I repeat my challenge to those who think that they can justify the kind of music used at LifeTeen, as well as other instances where some advocate pop and jazz. Re-read the quotes from the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist, Pope Benedict’s exhortation in Sacramentum Caritatis and what Pope John Paul wrote about music two years before his death.

Not every piece of music is suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Even Pope Paul VI, the author of the Pauline Missal which is now the OF noted that not everything that crosses the threhshold is suitable for the Mass. And, this is coming from the Pontiff who concluded the Second Vatican Council.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

** It tries to make the mass more important to** the teens.
Did you really mean to say that… can one really “make” the Mass more important without changing something? That is so wrong.

Third and last they grow attached to the mass and realize that it’s important
But they “realize” that what they like is important.

---

he has a vocation to the priesthood.
I wonder how he will react when the seminary tries to teach him the liturgy that is not what HE wants to celebrate. Would we rather have 10 priests celebrating a OF or EF, or 20 priests, half of whom are doing what teens want to “interest” them?

All in all, it sounds like a strong case of parents allowing the cart before the horse as they continue to fail in a catechisis that they themselves have never learned.

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Any comments on my last sentance??? I feel justified in my understanding. So does my bishop considering he celebrates a Lifteen mass once a month. Most of the music is light rock. The rest is the cajun and jazz that is central to our area. He also recites the Eucharistic prayer in Cajun-French. are you going to email the pope and tell him that my bishop is wrong? You people are so difficult!

 

[SacredHeartFan]

There is such a thing as taking excessive liberties. Have you ever heard of the Neocatechumenal Movement? They thought that they had carte blanche to do whatever they wanted to with the Mass, operating under the same premise that you just stated. It wasn’t at all okay with the Vatican and Pope Benedict had to personally intervene. He also had Francis Cardinal Arinze make sure and tell the movement that it wasn’t just the Holy Father’s personal opinion, but, it was a matter of liturgical law that had to be followed.

Furthermore, I repeat my challenge to those who think that they can justify the kind of music used at LifeTeen, as well as other instances where some advocate pop and jazz. Re-read the quotes from the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist, Pope Benedict’s exhortation in Sacramentum Caritatis and what Pope John Paul wrote about music two years before his death.

Not every piece of music is suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Even Pope Paul VI, the author of the Pauline Missal which is now the OF noted that not everything that crosses the threhshold is suitable for the Mass. And, this is coming from the Pontiff who concluded the Second Vatican Council.

I agree with the red sentances. Read what I put above. Rap and heavy metal are NOT sutiable for the mass. light rock and jazz are.

 

[MrS]

Any comments on my last sentance??? I feel justified in my understanding. So does my bishop considering he celebrates a Lifteen mass once a month. Most of the music is light rock. The rest is the cajun and jazz that is central to our area. He also recites the Eucharistic prayer in Cajun-French. are you going to email the pope and tell him that my bishop is wrong? You people are so difficult!

Yep, make it central to your area… not central to the Church.

No, I am not going to email the pope. But you should be emailing your bishop. Remind him that there is one flock… he does not have to make special considerations for what he apparently percieves as a different “breed of animal.”

We are all just sheep and goats, and should be in the same pasture.
.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Yep, make it central to your area… not central to the Church.

No, I am not going to email the pope. But you should be emailing your bishop. Remind him that there is one flock… he does not have to make special considerations for what he apparently percieves as a different “breed of animal.”

We are all just sheep and goats, and should be in the same pasture.
.

same pasture yes, same grass no.
we all come from different cultures and these cultures should be represented in the mass. if we come from a culture with light rock and jazz go for it. if we come from a culture of bongo drums and dancing, go for it. none of us for a fact come from a culture of incense and latin. thats the church.

 

[MrS]

same pasture yes, same grass no.
we all come from different cultures and these cultures should be represented in the mass. if we come from a culture with light rock and jazz go for it. if we come from a culture of bongo drums and dancing, go for it. none of us for a fact come from a culture of incense and latin. thats the church.

where do you learn this stuff. WE all need a different Mass, because WE are all different???

I cannot fathom changing the words to “… and I will build a buncha different Churches because ya all are different…”

 

[SacredHeartFan]

where do you learn this stuff. WE all need a different Mass, because WE are all different???

I cannot fathom changing the words to “… and I will build a buncha different Churches because ya all are different…”

no the same mass, diffent music and language. I guess that is what this thread gets down to. is this music acceptable to mass. all masses are the same because they present jesus physically to his people. i think you are misinterpreting me.

 

[nate12387]

where do you learn this stuff. WE all need a different Mass, because WE are all different???

I cannot fathom changing the words to “… and I will build a buncha different Churches because ya all are different…”

Different cultures worship in different ways. If you were to go to Africa, there would probably be dance in the mass because they see it as worship because it is there culture. You wouldn’t see that here in the North America because we don’t see that as worship. This is allowed by the church. Yes it is one church even though we may worship in different ways.

 

[nate12387]

no the same mass, diffent music and language. I guess that is what this thread gets down to. is this music acceptable to mass. all masses are the same because they present jesus physically to his people. i think you are misinterpreting me.

I would agree with what you are saying.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Different cultures worship in different ways. If you were to go to Africa, there would probably be dance in the mass because they see it as worship because it is there culture. You wouldn’t see that here in the North America because we don’t see that as worship. This is allowed by the church. Yes it is one church even though we may worship in different ways.

THANK YOU!!! Finally someone sees my point of view!