Lila Rose leads crowd decrying abortionist privileges at Colorado Catholic hospital

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Corki said:
Whether the physician is an employee or a contractor, the hospital can demand a certain standard of moral behavior. Working in an abortion clinic, whether as an abortionist or a nurse would be a violation of a reasonable morals clause.
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What about those physicians who perform abortions without ever having stepped a foot into an abortion clinic? Most physicians peform them in their office or in the hospital…
Corki said:
How about:St. Whoever Hospital, in spite of having the word “Catholic” over the door does not make any assertions as to the moral character or behavior of its employees or contracted physicians. Some individuals who are listed as “doctors” in our physician directory may in fact be abortionists. Referral of a patient by St. Whoever or any member of its staff does not imply an endorsement of any kind.
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Well, if you think you can get a referral from a Catholic hospital for an OB-GYN and they refer you to all of their Ob-Gyn’s who have priviledges with their facility, and you find out that the one you chose performs abortions, then I guess you could try to sue them for it. I think it would just be easier to just ask the physican if they do. But everyone goes about things differently.
Corki said:
That’s not true. I just did a little research and there are no good numbers since doctors who perform abortions don’t have to reveal this in most states. But the estimates are that less than 25% of all OB/GNYNs perform abortions.
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Obviously I haven’t met all the doctors in a region, but of those I know, all the non-Catholic ones performed abortions either in their office or in the hospital. Only the Catholic ones didn’t, and they would just refer you to someone who did. Given the fact that they don’t have to reveal this information though, I’m not confident in the estimates.
Corki said:
That’s a different situation. I would expect that the doctor had multiple hospitals and could refer them to one or the other depending on many different factors. But when it’s the hospital doing the referring, that’s not quite the same. Hospitals are usually much more discriminating in granting privaleges than doctors are in applying for them. A Catholic hospital should be expected to make certain basic criteria a requirement for privaleges, let alone referrals or office space. A requirement that the doctor not have a side business of baby killing seems a small request.
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Well, I can totally understand where you’re coming from because full disclosure is important to me as well. Add that to the fact that you’re looking for something specific and expect something specific because you’re using a Catholic hospital - therefore, it’s not like you have unreasonable expectations. At the very least, they can let you know if a referral is “Catholic friendly”. Perhaps they have to worry about being compliant with equal opportunity laws? I’m not sure. Whenever I am looking for a physician and have called a hospital for a referral, they’ve given me a list with phone numbers. It was up to me to decide which one to choose. I would think that if certain criteria are important, such as this criteria is important to you, that you would simply ask as you made your way down the list.
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Rence said:
What about those physicians who perform abortions without ever having stepped a foot into an abortion clinic? Most physicians peform them in their office or in the hospital…
Corki;8252306:
That would work for me. Full disclosure is important in any situation IMOHO. Another such statment might read: “St. Whoever Hospital, though a Catholic insititution, has Catholic as well as non-Catholic physicians on staff”.

Well, if you think you can get a referral from a Catholic hospital for an OB-GYN and they refer you to all of their Ob-Gyn’s who have priviledges with their facility, and you find out that the one you chose performs abortions, then I guess you could try to sue them for it. I think it would just be easier to just ask the physican if they do. But everyone goes about things differently.

Obviously I haven’t met all the doctors in a region, but of those I know, all the non-Catholic ones performed abortions either in their office or in the hospital. Only the Catholic ones didn’t, and they would just refer you to someone who did. Given the fact that they don’t have to reveal this information though, I’m not confident in the estimates.

Well, I can totally understand where you’re coming from because full disclosure is important to me as well. Add that to the fact that you’re looking for something specific and expect something specific because you’re using a Catholic hospital - therefore, it’s not like you have unreasonable expectations. At the very least, they can let you know if a referral is “Catholic friendly”. Perhaps they have to worry about being compliant with equal opportunity laws? I’m not sure. Whenever I am looking for a physician and have called a hospital for a referral, they’ve given me a list with phone numbers. It was up to me to decide which one to choose. I would think that if certain criteria are important, such as this criteria is important to you, that you would simply ask as you made your way down the list.
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I repeat-Whatever.I know who I’m dealing with now.And so do others.

THIS-from the mouth of a putative Catholic-“What they have is the liberty to control what goes on inside their own body without outside interference from parties outside their body. With God’s Grace and with the help of others, they need to make the right decision, but it is still important that their decision is their decision to make for themselves.”

You CAN’T be Catholic and pro-abortion.Nor can you skate around the subject with rationalizations like the above.As a Catholic you are bound by Church Teaching and you must NEVER undermine it but you must evangelize the Truth as taught by the Body of Christ,the Holy Catholic Church.
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Rence said:
Perhaps they have to worry about being compliant with equal opportunity laws? I’m not sure.
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I’m sorry - that made me laugh. Equal opportunity laws protect members of certain classes of individuals. Abortionists are not a protected class.
 
Samson01 said:
I won’t get used to it…it is sickening and should be called out as you have done…thanks for keeping it real.
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Thank you-it breaks my heart to see a Catholic say this stuff.It causes scandal in my opinion and confuses the poorly catechised and may influence adversely lurkers both Catholic and non-Catholic.
 
Corki said:
I’m sorry - that made me laugh. Equal opportunity laws protect members of certain classes of individuals. Abortionists are not a protected class.
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I didn’t mean it as in a certain class of individual. What I mean is, for example, if a woman calls a hospital and asks for a referral for an ob-gyn, and the referral officer only refers certain doctors, or says something like, “Dr. So and so is here in our offices, but he performs abortions”, Or “but he’s not Catholic”, or “he’s jewish by the way”, or “but,he’s an atheist”, it may come back to bite the hospital. They may also have a contract with the hospital with regards to treating the physicians equally with regards to referrals. Having physicians with privelidges in a hospital is a mutually beneficial arrangement, one that can be severed if a particular doctor finds out that he is not being referred equally in favor of another doctor, or there is a “but he does abortions”, or “but he prescribes birth control”, or “he’s an atheist” as a post script to the referral. The doctor sends his patients to a hospital for labwork, tests, outpatient as well as (name removed by moderator)atient procedures. It’s in the interest of the hospital to send referrals to those doctors in the hopes that the physician will use their hospital when ordering tests and procedurees for that patient. They both benefit from the business relationship. Perhaps that’s why, when I call for referrals, I’m given a list and it’s up to me to choose which one. When they do this, they can’t be accused of showing partiality, or saying something negative about the phsyician.

I mean really, do you really get “he does abortions” when you call up for an ob-gyn referral? Seriously? I mean, I can understand them saying, “he’s Catholic” because it’s a Catholic institution we’re talking about. But I can’t see them discriminating on the basis of the fact that he’s Jewish, or Muslim, or an atheist, or performs sterilizations at John Doe Medical down the road, or dispenses birth control in his office 🤷
 
Chrysotom said:
THIS-from the mouth of a putative Catholic -“What they have is the liberty to control what goes on inside their own body without outside interference from parties outside their body. With God’s Grace and with the help of others, they need to make the right decision, but it is still important that their decision is their decision to make for themselves.”
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That view isn’t contrary to Catholicism. The view that women should have the rights over their body and choose correctly is not contrary to Catholicism. What is contrary to Catholicism is choosing abortion.
Chrysotom said:
You CAN’T be Catholic and pro-abortion.
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That’s correct. You can’t be Catholic and pro-abortion.
Chrysotom said:
Nor can you skate around the subject with rationalizations like the above.As a Catholic you are bound by Church Teaching and you must NEVER undermine it but you must evangelize the Truth as taught by the Body of Christ,the Holy Catholic Church.
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Yes, I am bound by Church teaching and I obey Church teaching. The fact that I don’t procure abortions, don’t participate in abortions, don’t enable people to procure/participate in abortion, and that I counsel against abortion makes me in line with the Church’s teaching, not undermine it. I would never undermine Church teaching, even if I don’t agree with it.
 
But you are undermining Church teaching when you come out with these gems,-“What they have is the liberty to control what goes on inside their own body without outside interference from parties outside their body. With God’s Grace and with the help of others, they need to make the right decision, but it is still important that their decision is their decision to make for themselves.”

That is NOT Catholic and you must align your conscience with the teachings of the Church.Your arguments belie your adamant insistence that you are pro-life.One can’t be only pro-life personally but must be universally and cannot defend "choice"anywhere or at anytime especially on a Catholic website.

One should not disagree with Church Teachings and only reluctantly follow them and make it VERY apparent you are doing so because one has to.It is QUITE disturbing to other Catholics who are concerned about you and also that you may contribute to the graying of a BLACK and WHITE issue.

That is hardly the essence of the Faith,Submit to It’s Truth and support that Truth in your statements rather than your defense of the indefensible.Please.

" I would never undermine Church teaching, EVEN IF I DON"T AGREE WITH IT". But you are.Look at your statement above.If you do not agree with Catholic Teaching which is Magisterial and guarded against error why remain Catholic?I simply do not understand.One cannot pick and choose-one must learn humility and submit to the Truth.Please pray about it.
 
Chrysotom said:
But you are undermining Church teaching when you come out with these gems,-“What they have is the liberty to control what goes on inside their own body without outside interference from parties outside their body. With God’s Grace and with the help of others, they need to make the right decision, but it is still important that their decision is their decision to make for themselves.”
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That belief which you quote above is not contrary to Church teaching. Even my priests have agreed. What is forbidden is abortion. Having absolute rights over one’s own body is NOT contrary to Church teaching.
Chrysotom said:
That is NOT Catholic and you must align your conscience with the teachings of the Church.Your arguments belie your adamant insistence that you are pro-life.One can’t be only pro-life personally but must be universally and cannot defend "choice"anywhere or at anytime especially on a Catholic website.
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My beliefs are in alignment with the Church. I am not in favor of abortion. I am in favor of individuals having the right to consent or refuse treatments on their own body.
Chrysotom said:
One should not disagree with Church Teachings and only reluctantly follow them and make it VERY apparent you are doing so because one has to.It is QUITE disturbing to other Catholics who are concerned about you and also that you may contribute to the graying of a BLACK and WHITE issue.
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I follow Church teachings as best I can, as much as my conscience will allow me to do. I cannot in good conscience support taking away anyone’s right to make medical decisions regarding their own body. And I don’t have to: because that’s not a Church teaching. At all. Show me where it is.
Chrysotom said:
That is hardly the essence of the Faith,Submit to It’s Truth and support that Truth in your statements rather than your defense of the indefensible.Please.
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I do support the Truth in my statements: Abortion is forbidden by the Church. Having the right to make decisions regarding healthcare delivery on one’s own body is not forbidden by the Church. They may dictate how you should choose, and they may call on Catholics to choose according to Church teachings, but no where does it say anywhere in the CCC or Bible that one doesn’t have the right to make decisions regarding his/her own body. That includes women. We have the right to consent and refuse treatment done to our own body. I’m really sorry that this upsets you, but having medical rights over one’s body is NOT contrary to Church teaching. Abortion is contrary to Church teaching.
 
Chrysotom said:
" I would never undermine Church teaching, EVEN IF I DON"T AGREE WITH IT". But you are.Look at your statement above.If you do not agree with Catholic Teaching which is Magisterial and guarded against error why remain Catholic?I simply do not understand.One cannot pick and choose-one must learn humility and submit to the Truth.Please pray about it.
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Having the right to consent or refuse a medical treatment/procedure is not contrary to Church teaching. Abortion is contrary to Church teaching. I know you don’t understand because you clearly are confusing the two and interlapping them.

However, I’m quite certain that there is no such Magisterial teaching (real or imagined) that dictates that people (or women) don’t have the right to refuse or consent to medical treatments, and there is no Magisterial treatment (real or imagined) that states that a person should dictate to another person which treatments a person can or can’t have. There is no such Magisterial teaching that denies a person (even a woman) the liberty to make decisions regarding the treatment of their own body. What is a clear Magisterial teaching is that one is not to procure an abortion, or assist in an abortion, or perform an abortion, or having anything to do with abortion.
 
“Having absolute rights over one’s own body is NOT contrary to Church teaching”

MALARKEY-Pure CODE for “choice”.Your rights stop at the potential destruction of a human being for your convenience.You talk a good game but your semantic backflips and inverted reasoning are quite sad.Watch out you don’t sprain something.Pare away the “concerned” and “empathetic” affect of your posts and one is left with something quite sad,disturbing,and self-delusional.The readers of your posts know EXACTLY whom they are dealing with.
 
Chrysotom said:
“Having absolute rights over one’s own body is NOT contrary to Church teaching”

MALARKEY-Pure CODE for “choice”.Your rights stop at the potential destruction of a human being for your convenience.You talk a good game but your semantic backflips and inverted reasoning are quite sad.Watch out you don’t sprain something.Pare away the “concerned” and “empathetic” affect of your posts and one is left with something quite sad,disturbing,and self-delusional.The readers of your posts know EXACTLY whom they are dealing with.
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True, the fundamentals of the faith are quite the opposite. We are stewards of the body God has given us, not owners…
 
Rence said:
Having the right to consent or refuse a medical treatment/procedure is not contrary to Church teaching. Abortion is contrary to Church teaching. I know you don’t understand because you clearly are confusing the two and interlapping them.

However, I’m quite certain that there is no such Magisterial teaching (real or imagined) that dictates that people (or women) don’t have the right to refuse or consent to medical treatments, and there is no Magisterial treatment (real or imagined) that states that a person should dictate to another person which treatments a person can or can’t have. There is no such Magisterial teaching that denies a person (even a woman) the liberty to make decisions regarding the treatment of their own body. What is a clear Magisterial teaching is that one is not to procure an abortion, or assist in an abortion, or perform an abortion, or having anything to do with abortion.
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Don’t patronize me.I’m brighter than (fill in the blank) by several furlongs and my horsepucky indicator just red lined.
 
My parish Priest in his work outside a clinic once said that a woman was screaming at him “this is my choice, this is my body”. It stuck him how demonic the term was being used in that instance…“this is my body”.
 
Abortion is demonic.I just read Demonic Abortion by Father Thomas J Euteneuer.I recommend it highly and it illustrates probable possession of some of those in that Mollock Worshiping,child sacrificing satanic CULT.

…“this is my body”…what a DELIBERATE diabolical perversion of the True meaning of those Eucharistic words.Satan does not miss a beat and he spoke through that woman to try to wound the priest with a filthy sacrilege.Your priest recognized it and so should we all.
 
Chrysotom said:
“Having absolute rights over one’s own body is NOT contrary to Church teaching”

MALARKEY-Pure CODE for “choice”.Your rights stop at the potential destruction of a human being for your convenience.You talk a good game but your semantic backflips and inverted reasoning are quite sad.Watch out you don’t sprain something.Pare away the “concerned” and “empathetic” affect of your posts and one is left with something quite sad,disturbing,and self-delusional.The readers of your posts know EXACTLY whom they are dealing with.
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Well, I would hope so. I’ve always regarded patient rights to be paramount, and have never tried to deceive anyone about it. I’m really truly sorry that my support of patient rights disturbs and angers you so. But you can’t say that having absolute rights over one’s own body is contrary to Church teaching because it’s not. What is contrary to Church teaching is abortion. There is a significant difference. The fact that people use this choice to choose the wrong thing is unfortunate and tragic. But the right to choose medical treatments and procedures on behalf of onesself, without outside interference from another person, is important. A bystander should never have the power to deny or impose medical treatments on another person’s body. That’s never been a teaching of the Church.
 
Chrysotom said:
Don’t patronize me.I’m brighter than (fill in the blank) by several furlongs and my horsepucky indicator just red lined.
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I’m not patronizing you. I’m sorry that you feel that I am. The last thing I want is to anger or encite you. Like you, I am defending my position and using Church teachings to support it. Neither one of is us in favor of abortion, but we clearly go about trying to end abortion in different ways. I’m sure your method works best for you in your circles, and I do the same in mine.
 
Rence said:
I’m not patronizing you. I’m sorry that you feel that I am. The last thing I want is to anger or encite you. Like you, I am defending my position and using Church teachings to support it. Neither one of is us in favor of abortion, but we clearly go about trying to end abortion in different ways. I’m sure your method works best for you in your circles, and I do the same in mine.
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We know who we are dealing with.You’ve made that quite clear.
 
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