Limited Atonement, is it Biblical?

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The Bible reveals that we are born into this world as children of wrath, children of disobedience, children of darkness, and children of the devil. To become children of God, we must be born again and adopted into God’s family through Christ alone.

9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, [2] and his own people [3] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. - John 1

Heirs with Christ
12 So then, brothers, [4] we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons [5] of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. - rom 8

Ephesians 1-2

Greeting
1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful [1] in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us [2] for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known [3] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee [4] of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, [5] to the praise of his glory.

Thanksgiving and Prayer
15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love [6] toward all the saints, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might 20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

By Grace Through Faith
2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body [7] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But [8] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them…
I would say we are children of God, and we are children of disobedience at the same time. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit and that which is born of the flesh is flesh. God will not lose any of His children, although some of His children have lived and died without ever hearing the name of Christ. It is the spirit within us that is the true child of God.
 
No one has explained to me why the words in question mean something different than the generally accepted definitions.
I’m not sure of “all” of the words you’ve questioned, however, with respect to the word “all” (Gk pas), it (as are many, if not “all” Greek words), is context-driven.

“All” can mean either "everyone without exception, or it can mean "everyone without distinction—all kinds of men (cf Rev 5:9).
 
I would say we are children of God, and we are children of disobedience at the same time. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit and that which is born of the flesh is flesh. God will not lose any of His children, although some of His children have lived and died without ever hearing the name of Christ. It is the spirit within us that is the true child of God.
I noticed your religion is Primitive Baptist. What is that, because your posting sounds kind of new age to me? See what happens when you reject the biblical doctrine of original sin.
 
Nope, this is definetly not what Calvinists believe. It is not by the active will of God that most go to Hell. Please see Romans chapter 1 and chapter 2. All sinners freely choose to sin against God and his rightful rule because we are all born sinners. Hell is what we freely choose because we all freely choose to rebel and sin against God. But God has a great rescue mission for those who believe.

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. - Rom 5

Who is the us highlighted in red above?
:tiphat: Thank you for the clarification.
 
I noticed your religion is Primitive Baptist. What is that, because your posting sounds kind of new age to me? See what happens when you reject the biblical doctrine of original sin.
I don’t think that predestination should mean that God randomly chooses some for eternal paradise even though they are no better than anyone else. Others are randomly chosen for torment or destruction even though they are no worse than anyone else. I think that type of Calvinism is what gives predestination a bad name.

Looking at the Bible (not some new age book), I see a God of infinite mercy, love, and compassion, and yes, justice. So, when it comes to predestination, something on which we seem to basically agree, I think that God will show great mercy in those who are predestinated to Heaven. I realize that some are egocentric, but I think most people are basically good, meaning deep down there is some goodness within them, and the only place that could have come from is God.

One of the key beliefs in the Primitive Baptists Church I grew up in, is that most of the times the Bible talks about us having to do one thing or another to get to Heaven, it is actually talking about the heaven in this world as in the joy of charity or communion with God.

As far as original sin, I don’t think that we are born guilty. Adam and Eve were disobedience. They did not stay away from the forbidden fruit as God had required, so Satan would no longer be required to stay away from the humans. Satan did not enter into Eve’s heart and cause her to have a desire to eat the apple, because God would not allow Satan to manipulate the humans. After the fall of Adam, Satan is allowed to manipulate us, and he does so only seeking our destruction. The sin comes from the influence of Satan and our weakness (spirit is willing, but flesh is weak). We are not born guilty.
 
I don’t think that predestination should mean that God randomly chooses some for eternal paradise even though they are no better than anyone else. Others are randomly chosen for torment or destruction even though they are no worse than anyone else. I think that type of Calvinism is what gives predestination a bad name.

Looking at the Bible (not some new age book), I see a God of infinite mercy, love, and compassion, and yes, justice. So, when it comes to predestination, something on which we seem to basically agree, I think that God will show great mercy in those who are predestinated to Heaven. I realize that some are egocentric, but I think most people are basically good, meaning deep down there is some goodness within them, and the only place that could have come from is God.

One of the key beliefs in the Primitive Baptists Church I grew up in, is that most of the times the Bible talks about us having to do one thing or another to get to Heaven, it is actually talking about the heaven in this world as in the joy of charity or communion with God.

As far as original sin, I don’t think that we are born guilty. Adam and Eve were disobedience. They did not stay away from the forbidden fruit as God had required, so Satan would no longer be required to stay away from the humans. Satan did not enter into Eve’s heart and cause her to have a desire to eat the apple, because God would not allow Satan to manipulate the humans. After the fall of Adam, Satan is allowed to manipulate us, and he does so only seeking our destruction. The sin comes from the influence of Satan and our weakness (spirit is willing, but flesh is weak). We are not born guilty.
I think everyone needs to understand that Protestantism is a general term with a wide range of beliefs. Actually, I believe more like Roman Catholics than some of the Protestant churches out there. I have much in common with Orthodox Roman Catholics…then some of the Protestant churches found today.
 
I’m not sure of “all” of the words you’ve questioned, however, with respect to the word “all” (Gk pas), it (as are many, if not “all” Greek words), is context-driven.

“All” can mean either "everyone without exception, or it can mean "everyone without distinction—all kinds of men (cf Rev 5:9).
What do you think it means in these verses?

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 12:31-32

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32
 
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CHESTERTONRULES:
What do you think it means in these verses?

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 12:31-32
All without distinction.
For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22
First without exception, second without distinction.
Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18
First without exception, second without distinction.
For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32
Firsts without exception, second without distinction.
 
All without distinction.

First without exception, second without distinction.

First without exception, second without distinction.

Firsts without exception, second without distinction.
So then, you don’t hold the doctrine of limited atonement.

👍
 
But I do; which confirms to everyone that you don’t understand the doctrine. :nope:
You just said that you believe that Jesus is drawing all men to himself.

Did you just say that, or do you believe it?

For the record:

Limited atonement: This is the third of The Five Points of Calvinism: the belief that Jesus did not die to save all humans. He died only for the sake of specific sins of those who are saved.

Note that even false teachers were bought by Christ:

2 Peter 2
1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 
There is no difference in the meaning unless you are using a unique dictionary of your own creation.
Without exception means all men, everyone, the human race in toto, no exceptions.

Without distinction means “all kinds of men,” men from every nation, tribe and tongue, not everyone, not the human race in toto, but with exceptions.
 
Without exception means all men, everyone, the human race in toto, no exceptions.

Without distinction means “all kinds of men,” men from every nation, tribe and tongue, not everyone, not the human race in toto, but with exceptions.
Evasions designed to obfuscate.

Your words are not contained nor implied in the scriptures I posted.
 
Good, you understand.

Now that you understand the difference between the two meanings of pas, do you understand that I believe in limited atonement?
You don’t believe that Jesus died for all men without distinction, as you claimed.

You believe that Jesus died ONLY for some men, even though this directly contradicts scripture.

Tell me, what distinguishes the men Jesus died for from those he didn’t die for?
 
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CHESTERTONRULES:
You don’t believe that Jesus died for all men without distinction, as you claimed.
He died for all men without distinction, but He did not die for all men without exception.

That’s my complete statement, but you choose to focus only on the former, and assume that it means without exception as well.
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CHESTERTONRULES:
You believe that Jesus died ONLY for some men, even though this directly contradicts scripture.
I believe that, and I also believe that doesn’t contradict scripture. (I’ve provided some examples of that).
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CHESTERTONRULES:
Tell me, what distinguishes the men Jesus died for from those he didn’t die for?
Predestination to salvation.
 
Everybody believes in a form of limited atonement or particular atonement unless you believe in universalism. Do you think all individuals will be saved from the wrath of God and enter Heaven? If you answer no, you believe in a form of limited atonement.
Hello friend, I believe all people who confess Jesus Christ as their lord and savior will be saved. I am the truth the way and the life. no one comes to the father except through me. Everyone who call on the name of the lord will be saved. IF you confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord and believe in your heart he rose from the dead you will be saved. This is what i believe. God bless Deb
 
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