Lincoln Diocese (in Nebraska) attracts conservative Catholics

[Dale_M]

The Lincoln Roman Catholic Diocese has a reputation as one of the most conservative dioceses, if not the most conservative, in the country.

That conservatism — many prefer to call it orthodoxy or traditionalism — makes some Catholics uncomfortable, especially when they come to Lincoln from other places. But others praise it, including some who moved here specifically because they were attracted to Catholicism as practiced in the Lincoln Diocese.

link

 

[sneakers]

Your diocese is truly blessed!

We can’t even get one indult mass in our diocese!

 

[Elzee]

God bless this man! We need more like him.

 

[cheese_sdc]

[SIGN]Exclusionary Catholicism Practiced Here[/SIGN]

 

[cheese_sdc]

They also noted not only the absence of girl altar servers but of lay women as eucharistic ministers, which is common elsewhere.

This is disturbing.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Pax vobiscum!

Here are some interesting quotes from that article.

Louise Baskin, who grew up in the Lincoln Diocese but moved to Colorado nine years ago, said when she began attending a Catholic church in Arvada, Colo., “it was the first time I understood that Mass was a celebration, not solemn, quiet and reverent.”

Oh, Mass is not supposed to be reverent, huh?

Rachel Pokora, president of Call to Action-Nebraska, was a eucharistic minister when she lived in Indiana, helping serve communion during Mass. They also regularly received both the wine and bread during communion, while in Lincoln in most services it’s only the bread. Priests in Lincoln are “overly cautious on the eucharist,” she said. “They’re afraid to let it into anyone’s hands. They treat it with respect, but they don’t treat us with respect.”

Yes, God forbid we treat the Body of Christ with respect! And the bishop won’t let this pro-abortion, pro-women priests, pro-contraception, pro-no ministerial priesthood, ect. serve as an EMHC? The horror! And does this women treat the Church with respect? Nope.

Karla Jensen, a communications professor at Nebraska Wesleyan who grew up in Scottsbluff, in the Grand Island Diocese, tried attending several Lincoln Catholic churches and felt “the voice of the liberal Catholic” was lacking. “It just didn’t seem like a place for open dialogue. I didn’t feel I would be free to ask questions or openly challenge anything.” Jensen doesn’t attend a Catholic church in Lincoln, but goes to Mass when she is home in Scottsbluff.

:crying:Cry me a river, lady. How about this: you’re not supposed to challenge the Church. Notice that she only goes to church when she is in Scottsbluff.

“There was one time where I remember some of the girls in choir wanted to do a more contemporary type of song for Mass but they didn’t think it would fly,” he said. “It’s usually things like that.”

If only we had that “problem” everywhere!

I am so sick of these liberal, progressive Catholics. Bunch of whiners and crybabies.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[fix]

• Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz requires strict adherence to correct doctrine and practice.

• In 1996 Bruskewitz issued a list of 12 groups local Catholics are forbidden to join, calling them “perilous to the Catholic Faith.” They include several Masonic groups, Planned Parenthood, Catholics for a Free Choice, Society of St. Pius X, Hemlock Society and Call to Action.

I salute the man. It is a shame that we have to see his actions as extraordinary rather than seeing the actions as what all would expect from a good Shepherd.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

I salute the man. It is a shame that we have to see his actions as extraordinary rather than seeing the actions as what all would expect from a good Shepherd.

Pax tecum!

How true that is.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Richardols]

Oh, Mass is not supposed to be reverent, huh?

She didn’t say that.

And the bishop won’t let this pro-abortion, pro-women priests, pro-contraception, pro-no ministerial priesthood, ect. serve as an EMHC? The horror!

Where did it say that the particular woman in question was pro-abortion, pro-contraception, pro-woman priests?

you’re not supposed to challenge the Church.

You are correct there. The rule seems to be: “Pray and pay.” That’s it for Catholics.

Notice that she only goes to church when she is in Scottsbluff.

So what? If I lived in West Memphis, Arkansas (Little Rock Diocese) but always went to Mass in Memphis, Tennessee across the river (Memphis Diocese) what’s the sin?

I am so sick of these liberal, progressive Catholics. Bunch of whiners and crybabies.

Are judgmental holier-than-thou “conservative” Catholic complainers any better?.

 

[Tom317]

This is disturbing.

Why is that disturbing?

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Pax tecum!

She didn’t say that

She didn’t? Here’s what she said: “it was the first time I understood that Mass was a celebration, not solemn, quiet and reverent.” She says right here that Mass is a “celebration” (obviously a different definition than the Church has) and NOT reverent and solemn.

Where did it say that the particular woman in question was pro-abortion, pro-contraception, pro-woman priests?

She’s the president of the Nebraska Call to Action. Look at their website and what the group stands for. There’s a reason the bishop excommunicated all their members.

You are correct there. The rule seems to be: “Pray and pay.” That’s it for Catholics.

Actually, the rule is that Christ established a Church for a reason, and it was not for people to make up their own beliefs and try to get the Church to change accordingly.

So what? If I lived in West Memphis, Arkansas (Little Rock Diocese) but always went to Mass in Memphis, Tennessee across the river (Memphis Diocese) what’s the sin?

She said she only goes to church when she is at home, not when she is in Lincoln teaching. The sin is that she is not going to Mass every week, but only when she is in her home town.

Are judgmental holier-than-thou “conservative” Catholic complainers any better?.

When did I say I was holier than anyone? I don’t have a right to complain about “Catholics” supporting abortion or making a spectacle of the most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? I didn’t judge anyone, unlike what you have just done. All I said is that I am tired of the things that these liberal Catholics are doing.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Richardols]

She says right here that Mass is a “celebration” (obviously a different definition than the Church has) and NOT reverent and solemn.

Priests don’t celebrate the Mass? They do in my diocese.

She’s the president of the Nebraska Call to Action. Look at their website and what the group stands for. There’s a reason the bishop excommunicated all their members.

And because she’s a member, she definitely supports everything on their platform? You simply don’t know.

I didn’t judge anyone, unlike what you have just done. All I said is that I am tired of the things that these liberal Catholics are doing.

Sounds like a judgment on your part right there.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Pax tecum!

Priests don’t celebrate the Mass? They do in my diocese.

I just said, if you read my post, that the definition she used of “celebration” was obviously different than the Church’s definition. “Celebration” does not mean everyone having fun time with contemporary Protestant worship songs and people dancing around the church. The celebration of Holy Mass is a solemn and reverent event because it is a sacrifice.

And because she’s a member, she definitely supports everything on their platform? You simply don’t know.

She is the president of the organization, Richard. Come on now. The things I listed that they support are the VERY REASON that they even exist. And like I said before, Bishop Bruskewitz declared excommunication on all their members.

Sounds like a judgment on your part right there.

Right. So because I say that I am tired of babies being aborted, I am judging all those people, too? To say that I am tired of terrorists killing people is judging all of them? Just because I disagree with what certain people are doing does not mean that I am judging them. I can judge actions as right or wrong, but I am not judging anyone’s heart.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Maranatha]

Sounds like a judgment on your part right there.

No one here has judged the state of her soul. We are called to judge actions but not people. If she skips Sunday mass because she doesn’t like the masses available the the action is objectively sinful. We are called to recognize actions as sinful when they are.

 

[rpp]

Priests don’t celebrate the Mass? They do in my diocese.

And because she’s a member, she definitely supports everything on their platform? You simply don’t know.

Sounds like a judgment on your part right there.

Seems to me that Rand Al’Thor is drawing reasonable conclusions based
on this womans public statements and the fact that she is the president of a particular organizations. I did not get the impression that that he was judging the state of her soul. He was criticizing her statements both in the context which she made them as well as the larger context of the position she holds.

If someone is the president of an organization, or even the local branch of a national organization, it is reasonable to conclude that person is in agreement with the major tenets of that organization.

Richard, I think you have taken the “give them the benefit of the doubt” way too far here. She is the president of a dissident organization, an organization which Bishop Bruslewitz banned. Banned because they reject certain “non-negotiable” aspects of Cahtholic moral and doctrinal teachings. It is reasonable to assume that since she rejects the guidence provided by her bishop that she would be less than complimentary toward him and manner in which he administers his diocese.

We must understand that there are areas of ligitamate dissent and areas of illegitimate dissent. A married priesthood,. however distasteful to many, is an area where there can be legitimate discussuions. Abortion, female priestesses, euthanasia, homosexual marriage, multiple/serial marriages are not areas of legitimate dissent as they are part of the deposit of faith or are core morality. If you are going to ignore the teachings on, say, homosexual activity or divorce, you may as well ignore the teachings on Heaven and the Trinity.

On an unrelated (sort of) point, about the Diocese of Lincoln. If I understand correctly, they have one of the highest ratios of vocations to parishoner in the country. I was told (by the rector) this past summer that their seminary in Denton, Our Lady of Guadalupe, had a three-year waiting list to get in.

 

[Richardols]

“Celebration” does not mean everyone having fun time with contemporary Protestant worship songs and people dancing around the church.

The woman nowhere said that the Masses she attends in her Catholic diocese use Protestant songs and have dancing in the church. How have you come to that conclusion?

She is the president of the organization, Richard. Come on now. The things I listed that they support are the VERY REASON that they even exist.

But, we don’t know that she accepts every thing. We just don’t know.

So because I say that I am tired of babies being aborted, I am judging all those people, too? To say that I am tired of terrorists killing people is judging all of them?

Okay. If it’s just being tired of all that, I stand corrected. Sorry.

 

[Richardols]

We must understand that there are areas of ligitamate dissent

Well, someone here said that we “may not challenge the Church,” so what you say is questionable to some, though I agree with you.

On an unrelated (sort of) point, about the Diocese of Lincoln. If I understand correctly, they have one of the highest ratios of vocations to parishoner in the country.

Right now. I subscribe to Ignatius Press’s The Catholic World Report, and they had an article recently showing that the number of seminarians from dioceses go up and down - the leader one year or two may drop towards the bottom in another year.

I was told (by the rector) this past summer that their seminary in Denton, Our Lady of Guadalupe, had a three-year waiting list to get in.

That’s fine. I myself have a fondness for missionary priests, but diocesan priests are also needed.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

The woman nowhere said that the Masses she attends in her Catholic diocese use Protestant songs and have dancing in the church. How have you come to that conclusion?

I wasn’t specifically talking about that woman there. I was talking generally about most of the people who use the word “celebration” in the sense that she used it in. If she thinks that Mass is not supposed to be reverent and solemn and simply a “celebration” in the sense that she used the word, then it would follow that the type of music would be more contemporary and upbeat…most of those songs are Protestant worship songs which are, unfortunately, used in many Catholic churches these days.

But, we don’t know that she accepts every thing. We just don’t know.

Do you really think that the president of an organization like Call to Action, which works quite closely with the pro-abortion Catholics for a Free Choice, does not agree with all the things that their organization stands for? Why would she even be a member, much less the president of the organization? Like rpp said, you are taking the benefit of the doubt way too far here.

Okay. If it’s just being tired of all that, I stand corrected. Sorry.

I am tired of it and I can see that they are in the wrong. That is not judging someone’s soul; just recognizing that what they are doing is wrong, which is not sinful at all.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Richardols]

If she thinks that Mass is not supposed to be reverent and solemn and simply a “celebration” in the sense that she used the word, then it would follow that the type of music would be more contemporary and upbeat

Does it follow? Catholic Masses aren’t all funereal. Ever hear “On Eagle’s Wings”? Very contemporary and upbeat, a lovely Catholic song.

most of those songs are Protestant worship songs which are, unfortunately, used in many Catholic churches these days.

There are some fine Protestant hymns used in Catholic churches. Even some written by Luther himself. And “Amazing Grace” is Protestant, yet Catholics use it as well. Liturgical music can transcend theological differences if they are of the right sort. (And, I don’t mean what you hear at Pentecostal churches. )

Do you really think that the president of an organization like Call to Action, which works quite closely with the pro-abortion Catholics for a Free Choice, does not agree with all the things that their organization stands for? Why would she even be a member, much less the president of the organization? Like rpp said, you are taking the benefit of the doubt way too far here.

I’m an attorney except when I’m on vacation like this week and I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Way too many people are convicted by those who pre-judge others. I try not to be judgmental absent hard evidence to the contrary.

 

[Dale_M]

Your diocese is truly blessed!

Indeed it is, even though I live in the state east of Nebraska. But I do have relatives in Lincoln!

Richardols:

I subscribe to Ignatius Press’s The Catholic World Report, and they had an article recently showing that the number of seminarians from dioceses go up and down - the leader one year or two may drop towards the bottom in another year.

I think I found the article you mention, it is an update of a 2005 article and it reads:

Nebraska’s Diocese of Lincoln, with one seminarian per 2,625 Catholics, remains the most vocation-rich in the nation.

ignatius.com/Images/Products/USVocations.pdf

I found the 2005 Catholic World Report article and it mentions that

The nation’s 13 most vocation-rich dioceses all have fewer than 200,000 Catholics. …
One reason smaller dioceses may be more vocation-rich is that their size allows for greater interaction between bishops and seminarians.

link
So perhaps there is some stability in the smaller dioceses which is lacking in the larger ones.

Apparently Lincoln’s success with priestly vocations pre-dates Bruskewitz’ arrival.

The Lincoln Diocese has one of the best ratios of diocesan clergy to faithful in the U.S. The 1993 Catholic Almanac listed 136 diocesan priests for a population of just over 80,000 Catholics - twice as high a ratio as in comparable Australian dioceses like Ballarat, Lismore or Rockhampton.

1995 article

in the last five years, 19 young men were ordained priests, and currently 46 young men are in seminary studies for the Diocese of Lincoln. There are 114 diocesan priests in active ministry, 71 of whom were ordained after 1967. There have been no defections from the priesthood since 1976.

1993 article

BTW, Richardols, do you recommend subscribing to Catholic World Report? I’m open to pruning my current subscription list and would welcome your (name removed by moderator)ut.