List of Arguments Against Islam

[dmar198]

So I was involved in an interfaith discussion with some Muslims yesterday and there are a few points I learned from it.

• The best way to dialog with a person who you radically disagree with is to have some structure to your discussion. I allowed my dialog partner to speak for about one minute without interruption and then I would get to respond for one minute without interruption. Other peoples’ discussions were basically 10 minute monologues where each party would get angry because they were being constantly interrupted whenever someone disagreed with something. Me and my conversation partner had a much more fruitful discussion.
• We need to address their talking points based on the text of the Quran and Islamic social history, past and present. When I brought up the passages of the Quran that encourage violence against infidels, they said these were only about defending oneself against infidels (that’s the talking point they are trained to use). I was able to show that the text of the Quran not only commands this in defense, but commands Muslims to go on the attack, to pursue, and slay us everywhere. This also shows up in the history of the Middle East: not only Mohammed but both of the people who claimed to be his successors went on warring rampages that have changed Middle-Eastern geography for the foreseeable future. It quickly became a Muslim-dominated territory because of a lengthy violent attack. Either Mohammed was doing wrong when he put Islam in the position of aggressor, or the passages that talk about this are not only about defense, but they are about offensive measures as well – which proves their immorality. One way or the other, you prove that Mohammed was not a prophet.
• It is important to bring up the abuse of women. Islam allows fathers to give their daughters in marriage at the age of nine, because that is the age of one of the girls Mohammed consummated his marital vows with. In the parts of Europe that allow Shariah law to be implemented, that is the age Muslim judges allow men to marry little girls at. This is one way of proving Islam immoral.
• Polygamy is also permissible in Islam. That proves its immorality. Surah 4:3.
• Divorce and remarriage is also permissible in Islam. That proves its immorality. The whole body of sexual morality and its related doctrines has a rich history of being defended by Christians both on natural law grounds, which are written on everybody’s heart, and in the Bible, which lines up with that. The fact that the Quran in many instances teaches the opposite of chastity (and is therefore immoral) is a strong point to confront them on.
• It is important to bring up the Islamic doctrine of abrogation. Some parts of the Quran are contradicted by other parts, and the Quran explains that the later parts abrogate the older parts. This illustrates that the Quran is not the unchanging Word of God it claims to be, and it shows us how to evaluate it on the standard of Surah 4:82, which says: “Will they not ponder on the Quran? Were it from someone other than Allah, they would have certainly found therein many contradictions.” Well, we do find many contradictions in it, and in fact it has a doctrine on how to deal with contradictions – so it must be from someone other than Allah.
• It is important to bring up the prophetic texts of the Bible. The Quran doesn’t have any fulfilled prophecies, but the Bible has hundreds. That shows the difference in where they come from. On a related note, Mohammed was not a prophesied leader, and that indicates that God did not intend us to follow him. Wouldn’t He have told us to look for his coming in the same way He told us to watch and pray for the Messiah? It’s important to bring that up.
• It is important to defend the textual reliability of the Bible. According to Muslims, the Bible today is much different than its original form. The issue of textual variances is connected to this. Now this is a claim about history and it can be verified or falsified by examination. Historical research proves that our Biblical texts are true to the originals, and that is important because the Quran commands Muslims to accept the Biblical texts in their original form. Well, by inference from the Bible’s manuscript tradition we can show that the Bible’s original manuscripts included things like God having an eternal Son, and some prophecies of the crucifixion, and other things Muslims deny. [cont’d next post]

 

[dmar198]

[cont’d from last post]

• It is important to bring up that the Quran has textual variances similar to those in the Bible. This helps undercut their claim that in one area the Quran is superior to the Bible, and that is in its manuscript tradition. There are important textual variances in the Quran, and this is documented here: answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/
• The Quran says slavery is okay. This proves the immorality of the religion. Surah 16:71.
• The Quran allows Muslims to lie to infidels in certain circumstances, and this practice is called taqiyya. This proves the immorality of the religion. Surah 3:28, for example, says that Muslims would be lying if they called themselves friends of infidels, but says they may do it if it’s the only way to keep out of danger. “Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security.”
• The Quran teaches that God leads men astray and created some men to burn in hell. That is a denial of free will and an obvious evil to declare about God. Surah 7:178-179. “Whomsoever Allah guides, he is the one who follows the right way; and whomsoever He causes to err, these are the losers. And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men.”
• The Quran teaches the preexistence of the soul. Surah 7:172-183 teaches that Allah once asked all the created souls, “who is your Lord?” and all the souls said “You are our Creator our Lord”, but souls forget the covenant when they descend to the earth to enter men, and that is part of the reason why there are unbelievers. (I know: that doesn’t make any sense.) But the idea of the preexistence of the soul can be refuted by reason, since the kind of soul a newly-conceived embryo has is unable to give rise to thoughts, and therefore when the body did not exist, and thoughts were apparently not there either, the soul had nothing to give rise to. The soul is what it does, and what it does is give rise to self-governed action (like growth, and thought, and will). Without any action to give rise to, the soul is nothing.
• Islam denies many of the teachings which Christians can prove from reason. The divinity of Christ, the inspiration of the Bible, the Resurrection, certain principles of morality, the reasonableness of the Trinity, and more things which aren’t coming to mind at this moment. But since so many things can be shown from reason which the Quran teaches them to deny, it follows that the Quran is opposed to reason, and is wrong.

Are there any other arguments that you guys can summarize against Islamic teaching?

 

[SonSearcher]

Not really an argument against… but take it as you can…you might be able to disarm them a little…

Vatican Council II
Dogmatic Constitution on the Church
Lumen Gentium 16

(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

 

[jonathan_hili]

For me, the biggie that Islam can’t be of God is the denial of the Crucifixion, which is historically verifiable, and the confusion of the Trinity with Christ, God the Father, and Mary. These two gaffes suggest a purely human (and very fallible!) origin.

 

[kimg901]

For me, the biggie that Islam can’t be of God is the denial of the Crucifixion, which is historically verifiable, and the confusion of the Trinity with Christ, God the Father, and Mary. These two gaffes suggest a purely human (and very fallible!) origin.

Uh, the Trinity does not consist of Mary, only The Father, Son and Holy Spirit

 

[jonathan_hili]

Uh, the Trinity does not consist of Mary, only The Father, Son and Holy Spirit

Haha I know that!

The Qu’ran confuses the Trinity with Mary, the Father, and Jesus!

 

[Kaninchen]

So I was involved in an interfaith discussion with some Muslims yesterday and there are a few points I learned from it. . . .

• The best way to dialog with a person who you radically disagree with is to have some structure to your discussion. I allowed my dialog partner to speak for about one minute without interruption and then I would get to respond for one minute without interruption. Other peoples’ discussions were basically 10 minute monologues where each party would get angry because they were being constantly interrupted whenever someone disagreed with something. Me and my conversation partner had a much more fruitful discussion.
• We need to address their talking points based on the text of the Quran and Islamic social history, past and present.

Hm

I’ve spent many years in ‘interfaith discussion’ with people with whom I ‘radically disagree’ (ie Christians ) and I think there’s something important you’re missing about ‘interfaith discussion’.

It’s a mistake to allow people on the other side of the discussion to dictate the agenda. Of course, apologists for any religion want you to ‘address their talking points’ and attempt to justify your beliefs on their terms, in their religious language one might say, while they cascade you with ‘evidence’ for their talking points.

This isn’t the route to interfaith dialogue, it’s the route to serious rowing.

 

[Steve_Jay]

Hello,
another thread about Islam.

I live in Birmingham Uk, where churches are closing, the number of mosques are growing and Birmingham girls, in particular, are concerting to Islam.
I have posted on the internet on an an Islamic forum too.

Things are a bit odd really. I can remember Muslims wanting a mosque here in Birmingham. Birmingham central Mosque. We thought they should have one, being of the Abrahamic faith.
As a young adult, not knowing much about Islam, I used to get a picture of darkness whenever I thought about that Mosque. Islam has always struck me as a dark religion.

I’m going to tell a little story. It’s true. When I was about 6 years old, I had to remain after school for my older sister. My sister was a friend of a girl in her class. That girls younger brother was in the class below men. He used to come in our class and wait for his sister. We became friends. He was popular with just about everyone. Then one day he got killed running across a busy road. I will always remember him. A little boy privileged to have been born in to a Roman Catholic family.

I wonder how many Muslims can identify with that story. A little Muslim child killed on a busy road. A child who had no more say than my friend did about what sort of family they were born in to.

We know that no one may enter Heaven except through Christ. John chapter 3 spells it out. A person must be born again. so what are we to say? Is that little Muslim child destined for hell?
We are to become as the angels. So what point this body that shall be raised? Jesus is going to return as the judge, and the little Muslim might be born again on that day. The little Muslim might enter heaven on Jesus say. So we must not condemn. What if it should transpire that a Muslim lives a more loving life than I do? So we have to keep things in perspective.

We who are born privileged need to understand muslims and the false prophet. Jesus sets us free and in his stripes we are healed.

God bless.

 

[dmar198]

Hm

I’ve spent many years in ‘interfaith discussion’ with people with whom I ‘radically disagree’ (ie Christians ) and I think there’s something important you’re missing about ‘interfaith discussion’.

It’s a mistake to allow people on the other side of the discussion to dictate the agenda. Of course, apologists for any religion want you to ‘address their talking points’ and attempt to justify your beliefs on their terms, in their religious language one might say, while they cascade you with ‘evidence’ for their talking points.

This isn’t the route to interfaith dialogue, it’s the route to serious rowing.

I didn’t get involved in any rowing with my partner. That was what other people were doing, when they didn’t have any structure. But for me, having some structure allowed us to delve into the talking points without interrupting each other, and allowed us to really take a look at the evidence on either side. We both came out of it agreeing that it had been very fruitful. Of course, other people may have different experiences. We aren’t all made the same way, and for some people a minute of dialog and response might be agitating and lead the wrong way. But one thing we were able to do through it was to bring up points on either side; neither one of us “set the agenda” because in our own time we could bring up whatever points we wanted and/or ignore points that we thought were a waste of time – but generally we both wanted to talk about the things we each brought up. It allowed a lot more freedom on both sides, and we brought up a lot more information too.

 

[mikeeh]

thereligionofpeace.com/

 

[Steve_Jay]

Not really an argument against… but take it as you can…you might be able to disarm them a little…

Vatican Council II
Dogmatic Constitution on the Church
Lumen Gentium 16

(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

Hello SonSearcher,
I have had to weigh things very carefully here before commenting on what you have posted.
I spent about 9 months posting with muslims and I know what they have to say.

The faith of Abraham. That was counted as righteousness. He believed God. What was it though that he believed God about?
St. Paul wrote about that in the Book of Romans Chapter 4.
His faith had everything to do with Sarah as the starting point. She was barren and he believed God would give him a son through her. That son was Issac who Abraham was to offer back to God. Abraham already had a son. Ismael through his wife’s servant Hagar.
Sarah came to insist that Abraham should send Ismael out cut off from any inheritence. In doing so it meant Abraham totally disowning him as a son. That is why it is written that Isaac was his only son. It is through Isaac that all nations have come to be blessed.
Isaac was the son of faith because Abraham believed God about Isaac before he had been conceived. Sarah had been barren.
That is where the faith of Abraham is. Ishmael was cut of from having any inheritance. Abraham did not require faith in God regarding Ishmael’s conception. It was the one that was born without need of faith that was cut off.
The promise that all nations would come to be blessed was given to Abraham through Issac and not Ishmael. That promise was fulfilled in Jesus. He too was a son of faith because Mary conceived as a Virgin. Jesus goes back to Abraham through Isaac.

Islam claims to go back to Abraham through Ishmael. The faith of Abraham had nothing to do with Ishmael. Abraham totally cut him off. That meant Ishmael was without a father.
Islam will say God has no sons. Abraham had stood in for God when he offered Isaac. Islam is cut off and fatherless. Islam totally denies that salvation is in the truth that Jesus suffered, died and rose again. God’s wrath remains. Islam does not recognise John the baptist as a prophet and does not baptise Muslims in to Christ.
It is through Isaac that Abraham is said to be the Father of those who have faith.

John 3:31- 36
31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

 

[famdigy]

@dmar198, ofcourse I take exception to everything you mentioned. Please don’t take my comments as me passing judgement but I thought I’d share some thoughts that came to mind.

I was able to show that the text of the Quran not only commands this in defense, but commands Muslims to go on the attack, to pursue, and slay us everywhere.

I believe you’ve taken these texts out of context. The preceding and following texts will make clear this is only during battle. It’s not a command to go and wage battle. I agree our social history hasn’t been a good one but in my opinion this is contrary to what Islam prescribes.

• It is important to bring up the abuse of women. Islam allows fathers to give their daughters in marriage at the age of nine.

This one is a controversial topic where there’s disagreement among Muslims. There are concerns that these reports are historically false

• Polygamy is also permissible in Islam. That proves its immorality. Surah 4:3.

Yet infidelity is rampant in western society, I think we can agree this is a social problem in our society

• Divorce and remarriage is also permissible in Islam. That proves its immorality.

Yet the divorce rate in western society is close to 50% according to some statistics. My mother in-law is a devout catholic separated from her husband. Her common-law partner is also married and separated. In both cases it’s because Catholicism doesn’t allow divorce but yet they’re living together in a common law arrangement.

• It is important to bring up the Islamic doctrine of abrogation. Some parts of the Quran are contradicted by other parts, and the Quran explains that the later parts abrogate the older parts.

I have difficulty appreciating this point and so it would be helpful to site a specific example.

• It is important to bring up the prophetic texts of the Bible. The Quran doesn’t have any fulfilled prophecies

sure there are lots of fulfilled prophecies in the Qur’an

 

[CatholicSheila]

I’ve had numerous discussions with Muslims, mainly where they’ve been trying to show me the faults of Catholicism. The one thing I’ve picked is that you need to do is actually know their beliefs. The moment you misrepresent something they believe, and especially if you’re not willing to correct yourself, you’ve lost the argument. I know this because the moment they start talking about Mary been part of the trinity, the apostles not knowing Christ, the Pope been God on Earth etc. they automatically lose me. It works the other way as well.

There is absolutely no point arguing against something they don’t believe.

*not suggestiing the OP was misrepresenting beliefs, just adding what I’ve learnt through my conversations.

 

[jakasaki]

… snip

Islam does not recognise John the baptist as a prophet

… snip

They sure do recognize John The Baptist as a prophet

 

[Steve_Jay]

They sure do recognize John The Baptist as a prophet

Hello Jakasaki,
muslims woud need to believe what John the Baptist said to recognise him as a prophet. They don’t believe what he said. What did John the Baptist say about Jesus?

 

[Reuben_J]

Hello Jakasaki,
muslims woud need to believe what John the Baptist said to recognise him as a prophet. They don’t believe what he said. What did John the Baptist say about Jesus?

Hi Steve. If you phrase it that way, you are right. But it is Islamic belief that John the Baptist is a prophet. Then again Muslims do not believe everything in the Bible or some of the Bible narratives are being omitted in their Quran. For the sake of evenhandedness, it is no harm in acknowledging this belief in them then argue at the difference in how the respective religion views the prophet.

 

[Steve_Jay]

@dmar198, ofcourse I take exception to everything you mentioned. Please don’t take my comments as me passing judgement but I thought I’d share some thoughts that came to mind.
I believe you’ve taken these texts out of context. The preceding and following texts will make clear this is only during battle. It’s not a command to go and wage battle. I agree our social history hasn’t been a good one but in my opinion this is contrary to what Islam prescribes.
This one is a controversial topic where there’s disagreement among Muslims. There are concerns that these reports are historically false
Yet infidelity is rampant in western society, I think we can agree this is a social problem in our society
Yet the divorce rate in western society is close to 50% according to some statistics. My mother in-law is a devout catholic separated from her husband. Her common-law partner is also married and separated. In both cases it’s because Catholicism doesn’t allow divorce but yet they’re living together in a common law arrangement.
I have difficulty appreciating this point and so it would be helpful to site a specific example.
sure there are lots of fulfilled prophecies in the Qur’an

Hello famdigy
It is sad that infidelity is on the decline globally and Islam doesn’t have the answer for it. If it did then we wouldn’t be seeing reports of Islamic adulterers being stoned to death in Islamic countries. In Jesus we see a far greater mercy and compassion. He sent those who were going to stone the adulterer away and simply told her to go and sin no more. Jesus the most merciful and compassionate.
Muhammad corrupted the commandment of God and gave Muslim men permission to commit adultery by taking four wives. Jesus had spelt it out. One wife, one husband, one flesh. Muhammad was himself quite the adulterer. He had a harem of 19 “wives” 19. That other holy number of Islam, along with 666.

We Christians do not differ on this and with no false conjecture to follow. we might not agree on on other issues. Jesus suffered died and rose again. We all agree Salvation is in him. Jesus defeated both death and the devil. Islam differs with no certain knowledge for who do each says took Jesus’ place? Some say Judas, some say Barabbas, some say Siimon of Cyrene. The Quran falls on itself with its doublepeak.
When Muhammad caved in to the sin of adultery he was defeated by the devil. He needed his Saviour and was by no small measure Jesus’ equal.

Muhamad’s prophesy that came true. He made a prophesy that his military soldiers would lose a certain battle. No small wonder it came true. They went in to the battle knowing at the outset they would lose. Muhammad had fed them the psychology. Dishearted at the start they lost.

I pray that you come to the truth in Christ.

 

[Steve_Jay]

Hi Steve. If you phrase it that way, you are right. But it is Islamic belief that John the Baptist is a prophet. Then again Muslims do not believe everything in the Bible or some of the Bible narratives are being omitted in their Quran. For the sake of evenhandedness, it is no harm in acknowledging this belief in them then argue at the difference in how the respective religion views the prophet.

Hello Reuben,
God is not divided. John the baptist announced Jesus as the Savour. Muslims may be safe with God until they hold up a gospel that is other than the one we preach.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

How does Islam view Jesus?

Quran 19:88
They say: “(God) Most Gracious has begotten a son!”
Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

John 3:35-36
35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

That is the way it is. The gospel of Salvation. Jesus suffered, died and rose again. Our wounds are healed in his. We must be clear and stand with him.

 

[Reuben_J]

Hello Reuben,
God is not divided. John the baptist announced Jesus as the Savour. Muslims may be safe with God until they hold up a gospel that is other than the one we preach.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

How does Islam view Jesus?

Quran 19:88
They say: “(God) Most Gracious has begotten a son!”
Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

John 3:35-36
35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

That is the way it is. The gospel of Salvation. Jesus suffered, died and rose again. Our wounds are healed in his. We must be clear and stand with him.

Hi Steve. I more than agree with you in all these. But then again, it is Islamic belief that John the Baptist is a prophet to them. It is a matter of representing their belief honestly as far as possible as how they see it; not that we agree with them

 

[Steve_Jay]

Hi Steve. I more than agree with you in all these. But then again, it is Islamic belief that John the Baptist is a prophet to them. It is a matter of representing their belief honestly as far as possible as how they see it; not that we agree with them

Reuben,
we have to recognise that Islam has a different Jesus and a different John the baptist. They didn’t exist. They don’t believe the Jesus of truth and the John the Baptist of truth.
We are duty bound by God to defend the gospel of Salvation. Jesus has sealed the gospel of salvation with his own blood that he shed with love. John the baptist announced Jesus and baptised with water in to him for the taking away of the sins of mankind.

When John the Baptist baptised Jesus, he was symbolically pouring the water that had become contaminated with washed sins on to Jesus. He recognised he had no need to wash sins from Jesus.
As Jesus came out of the water, the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a dove and rested on him. When Noah sent a dove out it didn’t return when it found safe pasture.
The Holy Spirit confirmed Jesus is our safe pasture. The Father confirmed what John had said with these words “Behold my son in whom I am well pleased.”
When the Holy Spirit came down upon the apostles it was in the form of tongues of fire.
Islam does not baptise in to Jesus for the remission of sins. Neither do they partake in the Bread of heaven. The last supper.