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StrawberryJam
Guest
I don’t see any evidence that Mormons believe in the basic creed. So, I would venture to guess they do not believe that Jesus was God in the flesh.
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Pahoran
Guest
So the only way to believe that Christ is God is to believe the Creed?
What then did they do before the Creed was written? Were Peter, James and John Christians?
Here is a well-known joke that has circulated on the Internet for some time now:
Jesus said, Whom do men say that I am?
And his disciples answered and said, Some say you are John the Baptist returned from the dead; others say Elias, or other of the old prophets.
And Jesus answered and said, But whom do you say that I am?
Peter answered and said, “Thou art the Logos, existing in the Father as His rationality and then, by an act of His will, being generated, in consideration of the various functions by which God is related to his creation, but only on the fact that Scripture speaks of a Father, and a Son, and a Holy Spirit, each member of the Trinity being coequal with every other member, and each acting inseparably with and interpenetrating every other member, with only an economic subordination within God, but causing no division which would make the substance no longer simple.”
And Jesus answering, said, “What?”
(With apologies to Matthew 16.)
Regards,
Pahoran
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stormy99
Guest
**No he isn’t…my Catholic God does not have a flesh and bone body…he was never a man, he was always God…always…and I will never become God…ever…my hope is to live with God when I die…not to become a God…and I too understand Mormon doctrine…been there and I’m not there any more…my ex husband is still there…our children are not…they are Catholic, Catholic school…
So please don’t say Our God is Your God again…because it isn’t true.
stormy**
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mtolympus
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The above is not found in the Bible or LDS Scriptures. Joseph Smith may have said something like this at a funeral sermon but I believe this was speculation rather than revelation. To say the above quote is “the meat” of our doctrine is, in the worst way, gross distortion of our teachings. We do not teach this. It is a matter of speculation.
We do believe that man has the potential to become as God in a way one might expect a son to become like his father.
(Note: I will try to explain my beliefs as an LDS to the best of my ability so we might better understand each other. I will not post or open links. Please do not tell me what you think I believe. Thanks.)
Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God?
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StrawberryJam
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Just wanted to ask if all the catholics and mormons here have found this as an opportunity to discuss this together.
I have no idea how Mormons deal with death of a loved one.
I know how death is typically dealt with in the catholic church.
Should I open another thread to ask that question? What are your thoughts people reading this thread?
You should have a say in this.
I have no idea how Mormons deal with death of a loved one.
I know how death is typically dealt with in the catholic church.
Should I open another thread to ask that question? What are your thoughts people reading this thread?
You should have a say in this.
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ParkerD
Guest
Strawberry Jam,
I don’t have an opinion about whether you should open another thread on that particular subject. LDS certainly experience grief from the death of a loved one, and also understand the spirit world and thus receive comfort from their knowledge about that as well as from the Comforter. LDS funerals are usually a gathering where family members and friends express gratitude for the person and for the Savior’s atoning grace and the knowledge that the spirit world is real.
As far as grieving, here is a helpful brief statement I found from an article written in the LDS adult magazine several years ago on that subject:
"The Grieving Process
When they lose a loved one, most people go through specific steps of grieving, though at a different pace and to different degrees. It helps to be aware in advance of those steps, which include shock or denial (the “numbness” stage); guilt, anger, and depression; acknowledgement or acceptance; and finally adapting.
Grief is not bad, nor is it a sign of weakness or something to avoid. To take the grief out of death would be to take the love out of life. We need to allow ourselves to feel whatever is appropriate to the events and seasons of our lives. When our spouse or another loved one dies, we must give ourselves permission to grieve. It is okay to cry; in fact, crying is one of the healthiest things we can do. Tears of sadness can actually help calm us. It is no myth that a person feels better after a good cry.
Tears are only one of the signs that a person is beginning the process of recovery. Other signposts on the road to adapting to the loss of a loved one include a shift in attitude from “Why me?” to “Why not me? I’m strong enough to handle this.” Life is not always fair in the mortal sense, and if we expect it to be, we will be discouraged. However, life is always fair in the eternal sense. Instead of asking “Why did—or why will—this happen to me?” we can be asking “How can I grow through this experience and become a better person?”
Life was unexpectedly different for me after I lost John. Some of the things I thought would be the hardest turned out not to be, while other things were surprisingly difficult to manage. I thought I would be okay after a year had passed, after I’d been through the first Christmas without John, the first anniversary, the first birthdays. But I learned that no one can put recovery on a time schedule. To survive in the years after John died, I tried to change the things I could and learn to adapt to those I could not." (Sharon Evans Brown, 1995)
I added my prayers to those of many others for your comfort within the situation you had written about a while back. There is an LDS article about that particular kind of circumstance that is hopeful because no one knows the heart of anyone else–God only does, and knows the effects of illnesses. The Savior’s atonement included suffering the effects of pains and illnesses of all kinds, and His compassion can help lift very heavy burdens of grieving, but often that is a slow process of feeling lifted from those burdens. May His comfort be with you and lift you.
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mtolympus
Guest
Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?
Do you believe in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ?
I don’t understand why you have a problem with this.
Do you believe we are the children of God?
In this life, I know some childen who would like to always live with their parents and let them take care of them so they don’t have to work and grow.
This may also be true of some in our next life, however, eternity is a long time to waste.
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Todd520
Guest
Hi Stormy,
I believe one of us may have the wrong views of God, but I don’t believe there are two seperate Gods. The most we can aruge is who is right.
I believe we both believe Jesus Christ had/has flesh and bone, ergo we both believe God has flesh and bone.
I believe you don’t know your catechism very well, since Catholics have long espoused the beilef of man beocoming God. It’s just that LDS keep this belief front and center while Catholics keep it, but keep it under the covers.
I believe one of us may have the wrong views of God, but I don’t believe there are two seperate Gods. The most we can aruge is who is right.
I believe we both believe Jesus Christ had/has flesh and bone, ergo we both believe God has flesh and bone.
I believe you don’t know your catechism very well, since Catholics have long espoused the beilef of man beocoming God. It’s just that LDS keep this belief front and center while Catholics keep it, but keep it under the covers.
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stormy99
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Jesus is the Lamb of God…Jesus, God , Holy Spirit a Trinity…
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stormy99
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Being a child a God has no bearing on becoming a god or god like…not in the sense of human children possibly though not always being like their fathers…some of the children are like their Mothers…is their a Mother God to go along with LDS Heavenly Father…I was taught NO…am I wrong?
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Tamarack
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Todd,
What do you mean by this?:
“since Catholics have long espoused the belief of man becoming God.”
What do you mean by this?:
“since Catholics have long espoused the belief of man becoming God.”
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Todd520
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mtolympus
Guest
See there is something we can agree on.
Here is what I believe about the resurrection of Jesus, let me know if I get something wrong.When we die our spirit leaves our physical body. When Jesus died on the cross his body was placed in the tomb and his spirit went to paradise. He said to the thief on the cross next to him “Today thou shalt be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43) On the third day he was resurrected. His spirit was again united with his body and Jesus arose from the tomb. He appeared to 11 apostles and others who had gathered together. They thought they had seen a spirit but Jesus said to them “Handle me and see for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have.” (Luke 24:39) We know that he will never die again and that his spirit will never leave his body again. He will always have this glorified eternal body of flesh and bones because Paul wrote: “Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.” (Rom 6:9) Jesus’ followers saw him ascend into heaven and the angels said to them: "This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:11)
This is not in the Bible or in the LDS scriptures. Again this leaves us to speculate based on other revelations we have recieved. One of our church hymns tells of this speculation. Here is verse three from “O My Father.”
I had learned to call thee Father
Through thy Spirit from on high
But until the key of knowledge
Was restored, I knew not why.
In the heaven are parents single?
No; the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason, truth eternal
Tells me I’ve a mother there.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
This has been hashed out over and over here, “might make men gods” has very different meanings in our respective “theologies”. A good place to start is Jordan Vajda’s writings on the subject. They can be found at the Neal A. Maxwell Institutes’ website.
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Todd520
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Yet, I’m always amazed at how non-LDS are so shocked by the concept
and so clear they know exactly what meaning LDS attribute to the phrase
I remain suprised at how few catholics know this RCC doctrine and the meaning behind it.
Note, I only quoted the doctrine and did not ascribe additional meaning.
and so clear they know exactly what meaning LDS attribute to the phrase
I remain suprised at how few catholics know this RCC doctrine and the meaning behind it.
Note, I only quoted the doctrine and did not ascribe additional meaning.
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SnakeMauler
Guest
For all we know, God never grants Mormons “divine permission”.
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zaffiroborant
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But there is in the quote below the implication that we believe the same things. We don’t, there is a vast difference in our understanding of Jesus’ body of flesh and bone, and also in our understanding of “becoming god”.
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Tamarack
Guest
Todd,
Sorry I didn’t fully read your quote from the catechism earlier. We non-LDS are shocked by the concept when it comes from the mouth of one who is LDS; we assume you mean something different from what we mean. There’s a reason for that: statements by Joseph Smith, Lorenzo Snow, etc., summed up in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, as CatholicGuyNY posted ealier in this thread.
So here are my questions: Exactly what meaning do LDS attribute to the phrase? Why would the encyclopedia, available online at the church’s flagship university, llead people astray on this point?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
What does theosis mean and is it so very different in this comparison?
Who will witness to them if you let pride take over?
Can’t there be peace with the Eastern Orthodox and the Orthodox in Rome?
Why should pride get in the way of this mutual undedrsanding and love?
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mtolympus
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I don’t believe we have to agree with each other but I do believe that all Christians need to try to understand each other, learn to love each other and work together for the cause of Christ. I believe this is something we must do before Christ returns. “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:35) :bible1:
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