Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary - over the top?!

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kaycee said:
I could not get over it. God deserves the Glory not humans.
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Please quote one Catholic prayer where it is recited that glory is given to Mary, only one, that will suffice ???

could there possibly be another obstacle “at work” here blocking the obvious from being seen ???
 
Abira said:
I’m trying to understand your ideas but I wish you hadn’t used that quote! render to Caeser what is Caeser’s and to God that which is God’s.

I think I’d be comfortable with maybe ten or twenty names, but forty!!

S

to anyone out there who’s had similar problems with Mary, did you find that you came to an understanding? Did anything help you?
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Let me ask you few questions:
Do you not think that all these titles can belong to her?
Do you not think that she deserves these titles?
Do you think that number of titles makes worship?
Would you feel the same about a love letter to a living person that contained 40 titles?
 
kaycee said:
I could not get over it. God deserves the Glory not humans.

We are the recipients of His salvation. We don’t dole out grace.
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So whenever you want to tell wife (mother, father, sister…) how great she is and how much you love her you should bite your tongue and say that to God?
 
Abira said:
I’m trying to understand your ideas but I wish you hadn’t used that quote! render to Caeser what is Caeser’s and to God that which is God’s.

I think I’d be comfortable with maybe ten or twenty names, but forty!!

S

to anyone out there who’s had similar problems with Mary, did you find that you came to an understanding? Did anything help you?
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It was Jesus who revealed to me the shortcomings in my attitude and relationship to His mother. It wasn’t a verbal revelation, so wouldn’t know how to put it into words to share with you.

My prayer life still centers on Our Lord, but Mary also has a place in it now. I would suggest not worrying so much about wording in the various prayers. There’s a wide selection of Catholic prayers; we usually choose those that best express what we want to say. There’s no need to use prayers that one is uncomfortable with.

For yourself, I’d suggest just telling Jesus your current thoughts about the whole thing and asking Him to reveal to you how He would like you to relate to His mother; whether or not He wants you to incorporate some prayer to her in your prayer life. He’ll respond - in the best way and at the proper time.

Nita
 
KnightforChrist said:
Please quote one Catholic prayer where it is recited that glory is given to Mary, only one, that will suffice ???

could there possibly be another obstacle “at work” here blocking the obvious from being seen ???
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By Glory, I mean, praise, worship, adoration, attention, quotes like "all Grace comes through thee (Mary), stuff like that. By shear volume as well See examples.

“Time and time again, you have proven to be the Refuge of sinners, the Hope of the hopeless, the Consoler of the afflicted, and the Comforter of the Dying”

“We turn to you for protection, Holy Mother of God.
Listen to our prayers and help us in our needs.
Save us from every danger, glorious and blessed Virgin.”

“Inspired by this confidence, though burdened by my sins,
I run to your protection for you are my mother.”

Break the captive’s fetters; Light on blindness pour;
All our ills expelling, Ev’ry bliss implore.

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy,
Our life, our sweetness and our hope

To you I come, before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful;
O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions,
But in your clemency hear and answer me. Amen

We fly to thy patronage, O holy Mother of God;
Despise not our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us always from all dangers

It appears Most prayers to Mary go way beyond, just ask her to pray for us. It appears that many of the prayers attribute what is God’s only, to Mary. I thought Jesus is our only hope. :eek:

“Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name underheaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12
 
Abira said:
I don’t want to rip into all forty odd titles for Mary, but just to name one as an example…else I’d be typing forever lol…Mary is not the cause of our joy, Jesus is… regardless of Jesus coming through Mary it doesn’t mean we should attribute all things to her through her Son.
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Jesus is the only cause of our joy? Are not our own biological parents, spouses, siblings, children, friends, pets, all a ‘cause of our joy’?

As for ‘just plain Mary’ - there is nothing plain about her, not in the slightest.
 
kaycee said:
I tell them offcourse! However, they all have heartbeats.
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The Holy Spirit doesn’t have a heartbeat, never did have. Nor the Father. I guess you shouldn’t be trying to praise or talk to them either then.
 
I thought that the Annunciation in Luke’s Gospel is used as a biblical reference for the Immaculate Conception. The “Hail, full of grace” part you know?
 
What this amounts to is the Nestorian tendencies of Protestants and so-called “Restorationists”.

All grace comes through the Mother of God because Jesus, being God, was born of the Virgin Mary. Therefore, all grace comes to us from Jesus, through the Virgin Mary, through whom Jesus was born.

I ask: is Jesus God?

If so, then Mary is the Mother of God.

I ask: does grace come from Jesus, that is, God?

If so, then grace comes to us through Mary, the Mother of God.

To answer no to those questions is to sink into the heresy of Nestorianism.
 
KofC660 said:
What this amounts to is the Nestorian tendencies of Protestants and so-called “Restorationists”.

All grace comes through the Mother of God because Jesus, being God, was born of the Virgin Mary. Therefore, all grace comes to us from Jesus, through the Virgin Mary, through whom Jesus was born.

I ask: is Jesus God?

If so, then Mary is the Mother of God.

I ask: does grace come from Jesus, that is, God?

If so, then grace comes to us through Mary, the Mother of God.

To answer no to those questions is to sink into the heresy of Nestorianism.
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I don’t believe answering ‘no’ to any of those questions leads to Nestoriansism at all.

just because of the human and divine nature of Jesus doesn’t mean that grace comes to us through Mary. Jesus was born of Mary but all grace comes through Him alone. I am working on this but I found your post slightly uncharitable - using words such as heresy and nestorianism. Jesus never tells us to pray through Mary despite knowing she would outlive Him and be amongst his disciples after He was gone. I have been taught to see Jesus as the sole mediator, for me, seeing anything else is to deny the miracle of the cross.

That sacrifice is enough to allow a link to God without having to go through Mary to the extent that this prayer does.
 
KofC660 said:
In order to be fully human, Jesus needs a mother. Whether that’s mother’s name was Mary or Rebbecca or Ruth, she is to be honored as the “source”, that is the “fountain”, that is “wellspring” of our Joy, that Joy being Jesus - for Mary is the source, and Jesus IS the Life Giving Water.

That’s the difference between the orthodox and non-orthodox Faith: those of us with the orthodox Faith understand the subtleties. Those without the orthodox Faith can not.
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so are you saying:

Cause of our Joy (as in cause of our Jesus)

or

Cause of our joy (joy being a quality)
 
Abira said:
I don’t believe answering ‘no’ to any of those questions leads to Nestoriansism at all.
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If you deny that the Virgin Mary is the Mother of God then you are committing the heresy of Nestorianism.

If you confess that the Virgin Mary is the Mother of God then you can’t deny that the Grace of God comes to mankind through her.
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
Let me ask you few questions:
Do you not think that all these titles can belong to her?
Do you not think that she deserves these titles?
Do you think that number of titles makes worship?
Would you feel the same about a love letter to a living person that contained 40 titles?
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erm…ok <<>>

I suppose 99% of those titles in isolation from one another I can agree with and understand - at least once I had looked up the origins of the ones I never heard before. But when I see them all listed together like that it makes me uneasy.

I think Mary deserves my respect but I’ve never been brought up with it and have really struggled with this while I’ve been trying to learn, I would give her the same respect (dulia) as any other Saint I respected, I’m uncomfortable with hyperdulia.

I don’t think the number of titles makes the worship, but the proportion of this prayer aims the focus of the mind praying it.

I’ve only ever written one love letter and it exists somewhere as an ever present reminder that it could one day surface and embarrass me lol 🙂

S
 
Abira said:
so are you saying:

Cause of our Joy (as in cause of our Jesus)

or

Cause of our joy (joy being a quality)
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What I’m saying is this:

Jesus is the Life Giving Waters.

The jug which we draw the Waters with is our Faith.

The Well itself is Mary, the Mother of God.

We worship the Waters, and honor the Well.

The Waters need the Well to be accessed and worshiped by mankind, and because the Well supplies us with the Waters, it is honored.

Jesus needed to be born to a woman to be accessed and worshiped by mankind, and because Mary bore Jesus (the meaning of the word “Theotokos” is “God bearer”), she is honored.
 
Abira said:
I understand your ideas about the ‘cult of celebrity’…it’s something I try to ignore as much as is possible while still owning a TV…
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Believe me, I completely understand that. It is easy for me to get sucked into this as well.
Abira said:
I’m currently still reading - Mary: an evangelical catholic debate and have learnt a lot from the ideas there but remain unable to think of Mary in the way that Catholics obviously do and it troubles me greatly…does that make sense?
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It makes a lot of sense. I believe that those who do not share the Catholic view of Mary, but do love Christ just don’t have the same teaching that Catholics have. (I could probably word that better)

I view it like this: The old Covenant was the 10 Commandments. The Ark that the Commandments was carried in was … The Ark of the Covenant. The new Covenant is Jesus. Mary is the new Ark. It was through her that He came into this world - and she carried Him during her pregnancy. She was His earthly mother. She was chosen among all women. She humbly accepted. For that, she will always be the most special person throughout history for me. I need to add that Jesus is really my favorite person, but He was not just human.

If I were able to be anywhere in the world at any time, I would most want to be next to her adoring her Son on Calvary. She is my spiritual mother.

I have more thoughts on this, but I think I’ll leave it there.

God Bless you all, and thanks for contributing. This message board has really given me a lot.
 
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