Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary - over the top?!

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Abira,

I must say how beautiful it is that you are so sincere and so open to God’s will and God’s Church on this matter. I agree with one of the posters (Nina?) - definitely spend time with the Lord and share this struggle with him.

You mentioned that you could not find another place in Scripture that advocates going to Jesus through Mary. One thought is that Jesus, fulfilling the Commandments perfectly, always, even moments not recorded in Scripture, ALWAYS obeyed his parent’s wishes. He certainly would not disobey.

Also, has anyone shared with you yet the story in 1 Kings 1-2? I highly recommend reading it; pay close attention to the role of Bathsheba as she goes from wife of the King to mother of the King.

I’d like to humbly correct another fellow poster - I’m quite sure that the Rosary and the Litany of Mary are prayed every single day all over the world. I know of a group at my parish that pray them both every Tuesday evening.

One last thought that may or may not help - you mentioned that you thought you would be okay with her titles individually, but not in such a large group. You might think of them as a bouquet of flowers, all women love receiving flowers!

May God bless you abundantly and Mary pray for you every moment.
 
2Timothy1_7 said:
Abira,

I must say how beautiful it is that you are so sincere and so open to God’s will and God’s Church on this matter. I agree with one of the posters (Nina?) - definitely spend time with the Lord and share this struggle with him.

You mentioned that you could not find another place in Scripture that advocates going to Jesus through Mary. One thought is that Jesus, fulfilling the Commandments perfectly, always, even moments not recorded in Scripture, ALWAYS obeyed his parent’s wishes. He certainly would not disobey.

Also, has anyone shared with you yet the story in 1 Kings 1-2? I highly recommend reading it; pay close attention to the role of Bathsheba as she goes from wife of the King to mother of the King.

I’d like to humbly correct another fellow poster - I’m quite sure that the Rosary and the Litany of Mary are prayed every single day all over the world. I know of a group at my parish that pray them both every Tuesday evening.

One last thought that may or may not help - you mentioned that you thought you would be okay with her titles individually, but not in such a large group. You might think of them as a bouquet of flowers, all women love receiving flowers!

May God bless you abundantly and Mary pray for you every moment.
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Thank you Timothy, that’s a very thoughtful post.

I’ve just finished reading the story - I’ve not read any old testament in years.

Take care,

S
 
Just to make sure, you are aware of other litanies that are devoted specifically to Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Trinity? The Litany of Loreto is not the only litany in existence. If praying it makes you feel uncomfortable, pray the Litany of the Holy Name of Jesus, or the Litany of the Sacred Heart. (Even if you do pray the Litany of Loreto, you should still pray the Litany of the Holy Name and the Litany of the Sacred Heart on occasion. One does not negate the other.)
 
Also, don’t forget, no Catholic is ever required to pray the Rosary. The only time you might be required to pray the Rosary is if a priest gives it to you as penance in the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

The only prayer a Catholic is required to pray is the Mass, and in the Mass, through Christ, in Christ, and with Christ, the the unity of the Holy Spirit, all Glory and Honor is the Almighty Father’s, forever and ever.
 
NonDenom said:
Thanks KofC, never been called that before. I do however have a question for you. Who was around first, God or Mary?, or were they always together?
Thanks for you answer.
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Here’s the answer:

There are three persons in the “Godhead”:
  1. God the Father
  2. God the Son
  3. God the Holy Spirit
They exist simultaneously and independent of one another, yet contained within a single Godhead. The Father is not the Son, who is not the Holy Spirit, but all three are God, separate from one another, but consubstantial. This is the Mysterious Doctrine of the Trinity.

God the Son was born into the Flesh of a Man through the power of the Holy Spirit by the Virgin Mary, who is appropriately called the Mother of God, as Jesus is God, and Mary is His Mother.
 
NonDenom said:
Thanks KofC, never been called that before. I do however have a question for you. Who was around first, God or Mary?, or were they always together?
Thanks for you answer.
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That’s human-think and shows a lack of understanding of God’s capacities. One of them is timelessness. There IS no such thing as past, present or future to God, all events exist simultaneously to Him.

Otherwise how could God predict the coming of Christ and His victory over the serpent in the Garden, or John predict the end of the world?

Hence God’s name is ‘I AM’, not I WAS or I WILL BE - as in I AM Mary’s son, never I WAS Mary’s son or I WILL BE Mary’s son.

Add to this timelessness God’s trait of omniscience (knowing all things).

These things being the case, Jesus certainly knew from all eternity that He would be Mary’s son and she His mother. And He knew as only God knows, whose word brings things into being. She was certainly very real to Him even before her birth.
 
I wish I had a copy of my pastor’s homily on this issue. The man is a HUGE theologan and BIG into showing the Biblical Scriptural Basis for Marian Devotion, and many other misunderstood Catholic teachings and beliefs. (Am I so totally blessed or what?!) Anyway, the horribly ignorant, I really need to work on my bible goes something like this. First, one has to believe that Jesus is God incarnate. Secondly, God cannont be borne out of a woman who has sin. Third, there is no place in scripture that says that Mary had other children, Fourth. If her husband, Joseph, was as good of a practicing Jew as scripture implies, HE NEVER would have deflied the vessel that carried God by having marital relations in such a manner as to cause pregnancy. Fifth, Mary most likely took a vow of perpetual virginity, not uncommon in those days.

Believing in and protecting the tradition of Mary’s perpetual virginity, and assumption into heaven are part of what St. Paul discusses in the analogy of the parts of the body. It isn’t just an analogy about stewardship, but also about the truth as revealed by Christ. Mary is part of that truth.

Yeah! Mary!
 
MDomashinski said:
God Bless and Keep you

From your profile:

Religion:
Roman Catholic

Occupation:
High School Teacher
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God Bless YOU!

Good stuff in your post!!
MDomashinski said:
First, one has to believe that Jesus is God incarnate. Secondly, God cannont be borne out of a woman who has sin. Third, there is no place in scripture that says that Mary had other children, Fourth. If her husband, Joseph, was as good of a practicing Jew as scripture implies, HE NEVER would have deflied the vessel that carried God by having marital relations in such a manner as to cause pregnancy. Fifth, Mary most likely took a vow of perpetual virginity, not uncommon in those days.
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This is all the basis of my devotion to Mary - brought to me by the Church. Thank you for summing it all up!👍
 
NonDenom said:
Thanks KofC, never been called that before. I do however have a question for you. Who was around first, God or Mary?, or were they always together?
Thanks for you answer.
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KofC660 answered this so let me ask you two simple questions which are however extremely important.
**
Is Jesus fully God and fully man?** **YES **or NO
Is Mary Mother of Jesus? **YES **or NO

I really want to hear what you believe and I sincerely hope that you will answer YES in both cases.
 
Abira said:
Hi all,

every time I almost get over my doubts about Maryology something like this pushes me back down… I understand terms such as co-redemptrix and mediatrix etc even though I think they are misleading… but this in particular scares me - it’s no term in particular I disagree with…it’s the sheer volume of lines dedicated to Mary! What’s with it…why not focus on God and give her respect as a side note… The focus on her is a little OTT!
Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary

Lord, have mercy on us.
Christ, have mercy on us.
Lord, have mercy on us.
Christ, hear us.
Christ, graciously hear us.
God the Father of Heaven,
Have mercy on us.
God the Son, Redeemer of the world,
Have mercy on us.
God the Holy Ghost,
Have mercy on us.
Holy Trinity, one God,
Have mercy on us.
Holy Mary,
pray for us.
Holy Mother of God,
pray for us.
Holy Virgin of virgins,
pray for us.
Mother of Christ,
pray for us.
Mother of divine grace,
pray for us.
Mother most pure,
pray for us.
Mother most chaste,
pray for us.
Mother inviolate,
pray for us.
Mother undefiled,
pray for us.
Mother most amiable,
pray for us.
Mother most admirable,
pray for us.
Mother of good counsel,
pray for us.
Mother of our Creator,
pray for us.
Mother of our Savior,
pray for us.
Virgin most prudent,
pray for us.
Virgin most venerable,
pray for us.
Virgin most renowned,
pray for us.
Virgin most powerful,
pray for us.
Virgin most merciful,
pray for us.
Virgin most faithful,
pray for us.
Mirror of justice,
pray for us.
Seat of wisdom,
pray for us.
Cause of our joy,
pray for us.
Spiritual vessel,
pray for us.
Vessel of honor,
pray for us.
Singular vessel of devotion,
pray for us.
Mystical rose,
pray for us.
Tower of David,
pray for us.
Tower of ivory,
pray for us.
House of gold,
pray for us.
Ark of the Covenant,
pray for us.
Gate of Heaven,
pray for us.
Morning star,
pray for us.
Health of the sick,
pray for us.
Refuge of sinners,
pray for us.
Comforter of the afflicted,
pray for us.
Help of Christians,
pray for us.
Queen of angels,
pray for us.
Queen of patriarchs,
pray for us.
Queen of prophets,
pray for us.
Queen of apostles,
pray for us.
Queen of martyrs,
pray for us.
Queen of confessors,
pray for us.
Queen of virgins,
pray for us.
Queen of all saints,
pray for us.
Queen conceived without Original Sin,
pray for us.
Queen assumed into Heaven,
pray for us.
Queen of the most holy Rosary,
pray for us.
Queen of peace,
pray for us.

Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world,
Spare us, O Lord.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world,
Graciously hear us, O Lord.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world,
Have mercy on us.
what can you say to that to reassure me that Marian devotion isn’t bordering on blaspheme here? To me it sounds like latria as opposed to hyperdulia…does it not encourage Catholics to infringe upon glory that should only be given to God and not Mary?
Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God,
That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Grant, we beseech Thee, O Lord God, that we Thy Servants may enjoy perpetual health of mind and body and by the glorious intercession of the Blessed Mary, ever Virgin, be delivered from present sorrow and unjoy enternal happiness. Through Christ Our Lord. Amen.
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I don’t think there is anything here that need cause trouble, as long as these titles are explained properly. Over the top ? No, not at all. She is all the things that she is called in this litany.​

My complaint is that one of these titles - “Virgin most renowned”, I think - doesn’t translate the Latin properly; which is Virgo praedicanda, or “Virgin who must be preached”. She “must be preached”, in the sense that her humanity is the guarantee & source of that of the Word Incarnate; to that extent, & in that way, & that being so, she is essential for the Incarnation to be a real, & not a mere appearance.

People have gone OTT in the past, at times - the solution to that is not no veneration of the Mother of God, but a better sort of veneration of her.
 
NonDenom said:
Thanks KofC, never been called that before. I do however have a question for you. Who was around first, God or Mary?, or were they always together?
Thanks for you answer.
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God Is: time-conditioned language, including talk of "before & “after”, does not fit. Because God is eternal 🙂 The Three Divine Persons are co-eternal.​

Mary, OTOH, is a creature - everything, apart from the Living God, is a creature. The difference between Creator & creature is infinite; so that God alone can cross it. She is all-holy - but only as a creature: God is All-Holy because infinite Holiness is His by Nature; it is not something He has, but Who He Is. Whereas, Mary has her holiness as a gift, which comes to her from the unmerited generosity of God; just as with us. So it is impossible to confuse the Blessed Trinity with the Mother of God. She is not, she cannot be, more than a very greatly graced creature.

Which does not alter the fact that her holiness is so great that it beggars imagination - but this is because she is an entirely God-filled creature: which means that all her holiness is not hers at all; it is that of Jesus Christ living in her by grace. It is because God is in her, that people find her lovable. There is no more reason to confuse love for her with idolatry, than there is to confuse love for any other human being with idolatry.

The teaching in the Fourth Gospel & St.Paul’s letters about how Christians are indwelt by the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit, is not mere words: what it can mean as a reality, is shown by the Communion of Saints in general, & by the presence of God the Blessed Trinity in His Saints, & of them in Him, in particular. And she is a member of that communion of living members of the Body of Christ.
 
valient_Lucy said:
Just to make sure, you are aware of other litanies that are devoted specifically to Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Trinity? The Litany of Loreto is not the only litany in existence. If praying it makes you feel uncomfortable, pray the Litany of the Holy Name of Jesus, or the Litany of the Sacred Heart. (Even if you do pray the Litany of Loreto, you should still pray the Litany of the Holy Name and the Litany of the Sacred Heart on occasion. One does not negate the other.)
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So many have argued so effectively, that I find it needless to add any proofs as to why Our Blessed Mother should be honoured and loved and as to why all Catholics need to have a great devotion to Her and confidence in her intercession. I must add a very small quote from St Alphonsus though “With regard to the necessity of invoking her (Mary’s) intercession, it is necessary to know that although the Council of Trent has only declared that the invocation of the saints is useful, still St. Thomas has asked the question: “Whether we should ask the saints to pray for us,” and has answered in the affirmative, saying, that the order of the divine law requires that we mortals be saved through the saints by obtaining, through their prayers, the graces necessary for salvation. The holy Doctor says: “Such is, after St. Denis the Areopagite, the order divinely established for the government of kings, that those far off should return to God through the mediation of those that are nearer.” " And as the saints in heaven are near God, we who are prisoners in the body and who travel far from God, we cannot, according to the order established, return to our supreme end except through the mediation of the saints.”
Finally the litany of the name of Jesus is also a most excellent devotion and some attribute the litany to St Bernadine of Sienna who was an apostle of the devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus.
God Bless
 
valient_Lucy said:
Just to make sure, you are aware of other litanies that are devoted specifically to Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Trinity? The Litany of Loreto is not the only litany in existence. If praying it makes you feel uncomfortable, pray the Litany of the Holy Name of Jesus, or the Litany of the Sacred Heart. (Even if you do pray the Litany of Loreto, you should still pray the Litany of the Holy Name and the Litany of the Sacred Heart on occasion. One does not negate the other.)
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Hi Lucy, I read both of those and kinda like them, no problems with those whatsoever.

S
 
KofC660 said:
Nestorianism runs rampant through the whole of Protestantism.
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It does not appear you are clear on what Nestorianism means.

Nestorianism is the error that Jesus is two distinct persons.

Denying the tital “Mother of God” by further clarification is not Nestorianism. We believe the hypo-static union.
 
LilyM;2496877]That’s human-think and shows a lack of understanding of God’s capacities. One of them is timelessness. There IS no such thing as past, present or future to God, all events exist simultaneously to Him.
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Otherwise how could God predict the coming of Christ and His victory over the serpent in the Garden, or John predict the end of the world?
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Hence God’s name is ‘I AM’, not I WAS or I WILL BE - as in I AM Mary’s son, never I WAS Mary’s son or I WILL BE Mary’s son.
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Add to this timelessness God’s trait of omniscience (knowing all things).
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These things being the case, Jesus certainly knew from all eternity that **He would be Mary’s son **and she His mother. And He knew as only God knows, whose word brings things into being. She was certainly very real to Him even before her birth
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Hi Lilly
I don’t know if you meant to, but you kinda counerdicted yourself in the two bolded statements above. I do have a understanding of God’s capacities. I just simply ask a question that no one seems to be able to answer. My reasoning behind this question is to find out if Catholics believe that Mary as Gods mother was with God before she was with us here on earth.
 
NonDenom said:
Hi Lilly
I don’t know if you meant to, but you kinda counerdicted yourself in the two bolded statements above. I do have a understanding of God’s capacities. I just simply ask a question that no one seems to be able to answer. My reasoning behind this question is to find out if Catholics believe that Mary as Gods mother was with God before she was with us here on earth.
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Speaking for this Catholic: Since Mary is a creature, she was created by God. Since she was created, she didn’t exist before being created. As a human she was created at the moment of her conception in her mother’s womb. So, she was not “with God” before then.
 
Hi Lilly
I don’t know if you meant to, but you kinda counerdicted yourself in the two bolded statements above. I do have a understanding of God’s capacities.** I just simply ask a question that no one seems to be able to answer. My reasoning behind this question is to find out if Catholics believe that Mary as Gods mother was with God before she was with us here on earth.**
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Mary is God’s creature – she was created by Him and thus must have a beginning. God, by his very uncreated nature, of course doesn’t. So no, when Catholics give Blessed Mary titles such as Mother of God or Theotokos they are not saying that the entire Godhead came out of her womb or that the Father and the Holy Spirit are also born of Mary. No - the phrase is solely referring to the truth about Jesus Christ, who is fully God and fully man. He was born of Virgin Mary, who is his mother and thus logically she must be Mother of God.

A = B
C = D of A
THEREFORE
C = D of B

Jesus = God
Mary = Mother of Jesus
THEREFORE
Mary = Mother of God

Now, I hope your question is answered and not you can answer ours. 👍

In Christ,
~G

EDIT: Davidv was faster 🙂
 
NonDenom said:
If your not keeping score, here it is.
Lord- 2
Christ- 3
Holy Trinity- 1
God- 4
And Mary- 36

P.S. I might be off a number or two, did it pretty fast.
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That Mary is mentioned more isn’t a problem since she is NEVER worshipped nor can any non-Catholic EVER present ANY evidence from official Catholic documents that Catholicism teaches he worship of Mary or any other human, because it does NOT exist.
As the late Protestant Christian singer Rich Mullins put it…do Catholics revere Mary too much or do Protestants revere her to little…?
 
Bishopite said:
That Mary is mentioned more isn’t a problem since she is NEVER worshipped nor can any non-Catholic EVER present ANY evidence from official Catholic documents that Catholicism teaches he worship of Mary or any other human, because it does NOT exist.
As the late Protestant Christian singer Rich Mullins put it…do Catholics revere Mary too much or do Protestants revere her to little…?
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I have heard from many people from many denominations who just see Mary as a bystander and no one special. I think that most protestants still hold Mary in high esteem, though. Thankfully the Catholic Church has preserved the reverence for Mary (Hyperdulia); I fear that left to non-tradition based faiths, her importance would have been forgotten.
 
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