Literal or symbolic? Partaking of the flesh and blood

[womanatwell]

Thank you for your well-wishes. My painting went well but I will have more tomorrow!

Yes, in the excerpt of Pope Benedict XVI’s (now Pope Emeritus) book which I referenced above, he says he is not sure whether Christ celebrated the Passover supper with his disciples or ate the Last Supper with them the night before, when the lambs were being slaughtered. The question was discussed by various scholars because of differences between the Gospels, John saying something different than the other three.

The 3 celebrations at that time of the 8-day Passover Feast were Passover, Unleavened Bread and the Feast of Firstfruits.

In his book, Jesus of Nazareth: the Infancy Narratives, Pope Benedict said he believes the reference to Jesus as a Nazarene is to tie in his home town with prophesies of the Old Testament. The references are: 1) because He is completely consecrated to God, as Samson the “Nazarite” was (cf. Judges 13:5-7); 2) the prophecy of Is. 11-1 “There shall come forth a shoot (nezer) from the stump of Jesse.”

It is true that James wrote among the rules for new Christians not to drink blood or eat the meat of strangled animals, or of those offered to idols (Acts 15:29). This was after an argument among disciples of whether Christians needed to follow Jewish laws such as circumcision. It is interesting that Peter said earlier in this same meeting (Acts 15:10-11 NIV),

“10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

The Law was impossible for people to follow. Paul said in Romans 3:10 that “there is no one righteous, not even one.”

But these rules, along with avoiding sexual immorality, were asked of the new Christians to follow. The difference since Christ is that we are supposed to consider the Spirit of the Law balanced with the Letter of the Law. Of course, we still are to avoid sexual immorality. However, as shown in 1 Corinthians 8, Paul talks about eating meat to idols as a possibility:

4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

He follows this by saying we should not do it if it weakens anyone in their faith.

Blood used to be considered the source of life, and of course if we don’t have blood we won’t physically live. We have different ideas of what life is now, since we also need livers, kidneys, lungs, etc. Even so, when animals are killed for commercial use in food, they are not strangled and their blood is drained.

Our focus is on the literal blood of Jesus Christ sustaining us.

 

[rose321]

He is completely consecrated to God, as Samson the “Nazarite”

Respectfully opinion
Hebrew Word
Brand Nazarene
Neser
Natzer. translitaterial
Nazer
Nazareth identical meaning -branch
Jesus was called the later word=The Nazarene=branch=Spoken by the prophets

Pious Jews call >>>The Nazarene

Matthew 2:23 There he made his home in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled. He will be called a Nazorean .

Flows with the prophecy?>>>

Isaiah 60:21 -22 shall be the shoot (nazer or branch and of Nazeroh identical with Nazareth, Nazarene) that spoken of the Prophets, righteous…land they shall inherit, be a small clan.

Prophecy given again>>

.Isaiah 4:2 On that day the branch (nazer) of the Lord shall be glorious and fruit…?

Jeremiah 23:5 Righteous branch (nazer) rightful heir to the throne?

Isa 60:21 restoration 5:1-7 The fruit the vine produced

Zechariah 6:12-13 Royal branch…

Hosa 14:6

Romans 11 >St Paul is grafting a wild olive shoot, a branch? Farmers take a wild root and graft into a cultivated scion?

Suggestion only read all of John chapter 15 maybe?

John 15:1-3 I am the true vine and my Father is the vine grower, >
John 15:5 I am the vine your are the branches.

Spiritual truths>> are taken from nature> within the prophecies given by the prophets, even Jesus uses theses nature terms, Jesus as Matthew 2:23 >>He will be called a Nazorean… Nazarene?,

Tree of Life
Olive Tree,
Branch
Vine
Shoot
Twig

t is true that James wrote among the rules for new Christians not to drink blood or eat the meat of strangled animals, or of those offered to idols (Acts 15:29). This was after an argument among disciples of whether Christians needed to follow Jewish laws such as circumcision.

Now with James in Our Heavenly Father made a Covenant with Abraham, household circumcision, which James the brother of the Lord >>>knew from looking within>>the Spoken Word written>> gentles did not have to be circumcised for the Circumcision Covenant>> was not made with gentles, right?

thus James gives the 4 >>Gentle Laws>> Our Heavenly Father’s >>his Covenant Laws made with Noah?

Covenant Laws of Noah>>> Genesis 9: 4-8 >>>>for the gentles to obey to enter the fold of Faith, Belief and gentles do not need to be circumcised.

Why St Paul had a hard time to get gentles to enter the fold of Belief in the One True God>

circumcision was scary?
dangerous to ones health, infections?
painful?
and at that time also Romans >>who ruled over them within their Empires, were put into prison, persecuted, punishable for some by death, because Christianity was a crime under Roman rule etc , is this true?

Not till 315 AD Constantine makes a decree that Christianity is no longer a crime?
but up to this point to practice Christianity was punishable by death?
put into prison?
if one was circumcised how would they know it?
315 AD>Gentles can now practice Christianity openly, freely etc, would this be true?.

Peace

 

[rose321]

“10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Respectfully toward just opinions in pondering, questioning and examining his Spoken Word. The Nazarene >
Who were they?
What did they believe?
What did they practice and how did they live?
What was their concerns? issues with the Pharisees? Saduccees? Those who served within the Temple? Priests? Sanhedrin Courts? etc?
Why did Jesus boldly? harshly? rebuke and give all the Woe’s to the Scribes=teachers, calling the Pharisees? Sadducees what? etc
Why did Jesus identify them as >>being the children of the Father of Lies? Hypocrites? blood vipers?
Nazarene’s did not belong to the Pharisees? or Sadducees did they?
Separate group of believers?

And is it true that James ( known as >Ya’ahov Tzadik?) the brother of the Lord ruled as head of the Mother Jerusalem Assembly, Council for 32 years did he not, for the Temple was not destroyed till 70 Ad and many fled from persecution into Pella?

John Baptist told ate only milk, honey, locust?
James drank no strong drink and was a vegan correct in other church sources and outside sources of those who wrote on him?

Jesus heavily quotes from OT Scriptures from his Prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah, Hosea etc, correct why?

Isaiah 66: 3 Whoever slaughters an ox is like one who kills a human being, who ever sacrifices a lamb like one who>> >>

Jeremiah 8:8 Those lying scribes with their pens…?

Why did Jesus gets so angry at the merchants on the temple porch, selling innocent animals for blood sacrifices?

Other sources>>

Epiphanius of Salamis describes the Ebionites as vegetarians? > Panarion 30: 16-18:9
The Didache 16:1 ( written by Apostles?)
Euebius’s of Caesarea Ecclesiastical History book 4:5-6
Recognition Homilies?
The Reconitions of Clement ( aka Nazarene Acts?)
The first Epistle of Cement 96 AD ?
Clemetine Homilies?
Nazarene were also known referred to different names most notable is Ebionites?
Origens Commentary on the Epistle to Romans 254 AD east and west church accept this letter and author to James Epistle?
Origen " Contra Celsum" > Theses disasters happened to the Jews as a punishment for the death of James the Just who was brother of Jesus called Christ, the Jews having put him to death although he was a man most destinquished for his justice.unquote ?
St Paul writes of this James within his own Epistles and in Acts 15
Jerome?
Josephus Antiquities Book 20 chapter 9 section > 93 Ad?
Annaus convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them the brother of Jesus the one called Christ whose name was James and certain others and accusing them of having transgressed the Law delivered them up to be stone…unquote ?

Historical sources are needed along with religious historical documents to understand what is taking place in such times of ancient history correct?

Peace

 

[rose321]

Respectfully opinion only, pondering on questioning and examining also searching out.

James settles this issue on circumcision for he is the last to stand after hearing all and says, >>>Now listen to me>> does he not? Which all present all agree along with St Paul, St Peter, Apostles who were present, elders etc did they not?

Our Heavenly Father all throughout the OT makes many Covenants since the beginning of time with others does he not?

Would theses be all Covenants also>>.??
Covenant with Abraham on the Circumcision and his descendants?
Covenant with Noah and his descendants ?
Covenant with King David?
Covenant Promise he will send a Savior, a King to sit on the throne of King David?
Covenant Laws given to Moses for the Congregation>Ten Commandments, and there is 5 Covenants with in this One Covenant is there not?
Covenant Laws of Blessings, if they break not his 1st Covenant with God.
Covenant Laws of Curses if they sadly break his Covenant Laws?
Covenant Code of Holiness Laws for all His Priest to obey, live by, observe those who serve him on his altar?
Covenant Law given of renewing >>His Covenant which is also a prophecy in Jeremiah 31:31-34>.has this come to pass yet?

In OT many Biblical verses within the prophets, our Heavenly Father himself states, I never commanded such?
Jesus within John tells us clearly>>>No flesh and blood enters the Kingdom so what enters in?

James:1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained by the world…unquote flows with>>>
Jeremiah Chapter 58 does it not?
Isaiah Chapter 1, also flows does it not 1 :11?

Jesus being the author of True Scripture, along with John Baptist, this James the brother of the Lord, Apostles, etc were they fully aware of Jeremiah Our Heavenly Fathers>>> prophets >Jeremiah 8:8?

Our Heavenly Father tells us, when Jesus was baptist >>>>>This is my Begotten Son in whom I am well pleased, did he not? Holy Spirit and what does it mean to be born from above?
Doer of His Word?
Spirit and His Word?

Jesus walked in the flesh, but fully lived in the Spirit?

Just interesting at this time I happen to be searching info, just simply seeking understanding on who were the Nazarenes, along with this James the Brother of the Lord, is all.

Surprised to find so many knew of this James the brother of the Lord and many who wrote about him>>>>>>> even our own early church fathers speaks about the Nazaerenes who later become known as Ebionites >>>find out others also wrote on this James within Historical writings by Historians is all. Have to have a history this James the brother of the Lord…32 years is a long time and Jesus ministry was only 3 years, interesting.


Peace

 

[womanatwell]

Hi rose321,

When I quoted you in one of your posts, the screen said I should not reply more than 3 times to one particular person in a thread and if I had something to say to you I should do it by personal mail. I think this is probably something that is overlooked by many posters because it seems some go back and forth endlessly. Be that as it may, feel free to send me personal messages, but I suppose we can also post messages without quoting or replying directly.

I just want to add a few things here. I would like to tell you the book we were referring to by Benedict XVI is called, Jesus of Nazareth, Part Two: Holy Week: From the Entrance into Jerusalem to the Resurrection. There is a section called “The Last Supper” but it is not in the title.

Also, it is my understanding James was killed in AD 62 as recorded by the Jewish historian Josephus.

I can see that the history and culture of the Nazarenes is interesting but I don’t know much about it. I can understand why you would want to know more and do research. It seems you believe they were not meat-eaters. I am wondering what your sources have been.

Peace to you too.

 

[rose321]

Did you not ask him in reply why it’s ok for him to choose what Jesus taught literally?

Respectfully opinion only pondering
Maybe assuming Jesus meant literally?
For His Covenant Laws, the Prophecy of the Prophets, their teaching and his Torah Laws, along with James the brother of the Lord, Jerusalem Council, Apostles, where they all agreed>>>> even St Paul seem to agree with decision made by James the brother of the Lord, seems state otherwise?

St Paul himself within his own Epistles writes, agrees with James >>giving the 4 Covenant Noah Laws, Acts repeats, otherwise why mention it?
Final decision also>>>along with gentles >>>do not need to be circumcised, for the Covenant of Circumcision>> was made with Abraham and with his descendants?

Interesting all throughout the OT our Heavenly Father makes Covenants with many others, and each Covenant Promises made>> is slightly different also are they not, with those who are in want or need, to correct their ways or etc?

Along with John Baptist calling out repent >repent > repent, continues with Jesus teaching >> repent >>repent?

Jesus heavily and continually quotes from OT, his Prophets, along with>>> repeating OT >>Ten Commandments. Thou shall not’s>>>>along with Jesus repeating , re- teaching of the OT Sermon on the Mount as being >>doers>> repent >>change our harden hearts of stone, >>>>all seem to flow in context also>>> with James Epistle does it not, maybe?

Our Heavenly Father tells us he does not change same today as yesterday, along with Jesus telling his listening audience to search the Scriptures and test all Spirits, just interesting is all and would taking it literally go against our heavenly Father Spoken Word and his Thou shall not’s? .

I have heard and read, that many ask the question>>>Why does the God of the OT >>so different then the God of the NT?
Well here we find they are clearly not>>>for His Spoken Word, now all flows in context from the beginning of the Bible to the last Book of the Bible and they are now clearly>>> One and the same?

Have the prophecies come to pass many of them? 2,000 years now , Jesus left have we noticed, there is no innocent animal sacrifices is there?

My yoke is not heavy>Repent and Return to me and I Will return to you?
If you want to enter the Kingdom obey the Ten Commandments, Jesus along with> James Epistles be>> doers > Sermon on the Mount?

Peace

 

[rose321]

Also, it is my understanding James was killed in AD 62 as recorded by the Jewish historian Josephus.

Respectfully agree Josephus states James was killed in AD 62 that is one source but other sources now seem and scholars also maybe>>> 62 AD or 69 Ad?>>> because of other historical sources also and even what early church fathers wrote about this James, Nazarene known also as Ebonites

even Josephus admits when James was killed might of started the Jewish revolt that lead to the Temple destruction and sources also written Jews because of persecution wars etc fled to Pella but James remains in Jerusalem. Also able to determine who was alive what King? Annuas High Priest etc etc new findings all the time also.

Other source Origen " Contra Celsum"
But 69 Ad would line up because the Temple was Destroyed in 70 Ad something must of took place that created such great civil unrest right, massive loss of life, destruction?

Peace

 

[Chris4]

As a non-Catholic, this one is very hard to swallow.

I’m pretty sure Catholics have died and had autopsies done, and that muscle and blood weren’t found in the stomach. So. . . what does “literal” mean, then?

If transubstantiation were literal, we’d have the DNA of Jesus. We could make Jesus clones simply by removing the “literal” flesh and blood of Jesus from a stomach and sequencing its DNA.

I know, this is gross and maybe disrespectful. I don’t intend to insult. But I know what “literal” means.

There is something strange about unbelief. The same thing happened immediately after Jesus declared so in John 6:66-70. We are not the first ones and Jesus had to appear to us on the road to Emmaus, and had to take the trouble to show us that it would not be symbolic but a reality. Cleophas and friend HAD TO recognize Jesus not only in the breaking of bread but in the bread( Luke 24:30-32). The Church cannot explain that mystery farther than that.

 

[lilypadrees]

If it takes faith to believe, then it’s not literal flesh. I can see flesh, taste it, and run tests on it. So if there is anything in reality which I can’t do that to, it’s not literal flesh.

Now, if you want to say that something special happens to the bread, and that it now provides spiritual food where normal bread doesn’t, then okay.

But “living bread that come down from heaven” is not talking about normal bread. You can eat as many crackers as you want, but I don’t think that can reasonably be believed to be “living bread that come down from heaven.”

Catholics don’t use crackers in Holy Communion.

 

[po18guy]

The devil found fertile ground (he is a sower, remember) in certain European men 500 years ago and began an assault on the Holy Eucharist. See where it has lead? Rampant division.

It is both sign and Sacrament. It is a symbol, but symbolizing what it actually is: Christ, Sacramentally present in His Body, Blood, Soul and divinity.

Why believe otherwise?

 

[Chris4]

If it takes faith to believe, then it’s not literal flesh. I can see flesh, taste it, and run tests on it. So if there is anything in reality which I can’t do that to, it’s not literal flesh.

benjamin1973, Christ took the trouble to express this mystery. He said in Matt. 26 verse 26, " …take, eat, THIS IS MY BODY." (emphasis is mine) though “is” is sufficient, enough. Your argument should be on the continuity after giving them the order - Luke 22:19. You just argue that it never was supposed to be continued despite that injunction.

 

[Richca]

benjamin1973:

As a non-Catholic, this one is very hard to swallow.

I’m pretty sure Catholics have died and had autopsies done, and that muscle and blood weren’t found in the stomach. So. . . what does “literal” mean, then?

If transubstantiation were literal, we’d have the DNA of Jesus. We could make Jesus clones simply by removing the “literal” flesh and blood of Jesus from a stomach and sequencing its DNA.

I know, this is gross and maybe disrespectful. I don’t intend to insult. But I know what “literal” means.

There is something strange about unbelief. The same thing happened immediately after Jesus declared so in John 6:66-70. We are not the first ones and Jesus had to appear to us on the road to Emmaus, and had to take the trouble to show us that it would not be symbolic but a reality. Cleophas and friend HAD TO recognize Jesus not only in the breaking of bread but in the bread( Luke 24:30-32). The Church cannot explain that mystery farther than that.

Benjamin1973 doesn’t understand what transubstantiation means. It is the whole substance of the bread that changes into the substance of the whole body of Christ and the whole substance of the wine that changes into the substance of the blood of Christ. The appearances or accidents of the bread and wine remain. Substance in itself before affected by the accidents of a thing is not something that can be observed, measured, or quantified. We only know it by the intellect. A substance such as bread or wine is visible, sensible, and quantifiable due to accidental forms which inhere in the substance. But, the substances of the bread and wine in transubstantiation are changed or converted into the substances of Christ’s body and blood but not the accidents of the bread and wine which remain by divine power.

Christ’s literal flesh, his DNA, his bones, heart, muscles, indeed his entire body is substantially present under the appearances or accidents of the bread just as the substance of the bread was before transubstantiation. But, the accidents of the bread and wine that remain after the consecration do not inhere in the substance of Christ’s body or blood. They are accidents of bread and wine not of Christ’s body and blood. Since the entire body of Christ is substantially present under the appearances of the bread, so are his accidents comcomitantly but after the manner of substance which in itself is invisible and unquantifiable or measurable or sensible. It is a matter of believing in Jesus’ word that he is substantially present and that the bread and wine are transubstantiated into his body and blood. And this faith in Jesus’ word is very pleasing to him and meritorious.

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

Did our Blessed Mother Mary>> who outlived her beloved Son life, also partake eat and drink the blood of her precious son? Searching for answer on this. pondering on

How do you know during communion Jesus made Himself present to His Blessed Mother, as He did to the disciples on the road to Emmaus in the breaking of bread?
The short answer to your thought or question, that is grounded in the temporal carnal order of things, when Scripture is silent on this mystery. Is to accept Jesus Word, when Jesus reveals that “IAM”. In this “IAM” is enough proof that supersedes any human physical contradiction or thought that does not reach into the depths of God’s divine mysteries revealed by Jesus Christ.
The Eucharist is a sign of Contradiction personified in the real and true substantial Presence of Jesus body and blood.
I believe your question from a carnal understanding, neglects the fact that God’s Presence is eternal. In here lies a contradiction between the carnal understanding from the temporal order of things, that cannot and does not understand or reach into the Spiritual order of things, especially IF? the temporal carnal order of things and understandings are discerned without the Spirit of God.
All of what I said here is summed up from this scripture and gives an answer to the OP.

I Cor.2:13 And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment.

Peace be with you

 

[ColorMomma]

I understand that this can be a difficult idea. The aspect that has helped me with this is that we are actually consuming the LIVING, resurrected Christ, not someone who is dead. He lived in the past and lives still. He unites his living flesh with our living flesh. It is an incredible gift, one I am not worthy of.

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

I understand that this can be a difficult idea. The aspect that has helped me with this is that we are actually consuming the LIVING, resurrected Christ, not someone who is dead. He lived in the past and lives still. He unites his living flesh with our living flesh. It is an incredible gift, one I am not worthy of.

Not taking anything away from your post here; From a mystical sense, I would like to add that; when we partake of the Eucharist, our act of faith in the consummation of Jesus body and blood allows us entrance into God’s Presence, when it is God’s Presence in reality that Consumes the believer with God’s Presence, in Eucharista =Thanksgiving.

Peace be with you

 

[rose321]

I Cor.2:13 And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment.

Respectfully toward. Thank you for your kind reply to my question. Agree, can be a carnal question to others>> and agree there lies a contradiction.

Thus my question was not a carnal one to me, but more a Spiritual question seeking answer to.

Eucharist being taught, practiced and observed>>> which our Blessed Mother Mary >>would also be observing, attending weekly gatherings within the community of the Faithful, within the church herself, would be giving Praise, Glory and Worship to also, would she not after the death of her beloved son?

For our Blessed Mother outlived her son our Lord and Savior, correct?

Believe also that Our Heavenly Fathers>>> presence is eternal for all who believe in Him. For he seeks to rest, dwell and be worshiped and desires to be glorified within each one of us>> does he not?

I believe>>> not all reject or think it foolish the things>>>> that come from the Spirit of God,>>>>>>>>>many have experienced such things through thousands of generations and continue to this day, having their own Spiritual experience and personal relationship with their Creator, would this not be true?

The gift of the Holy Spirit was never meant to be giving only to the few or given only to those who seek to serve within his assembly was it?

1 Cor 2:13 Is speaking about those >>>who reject>> the things that come from the Spirit of God.

But there are also those>>>>who do not reject the things of the Spirit, would this be true?

1 Cor 2:13 >>>and then there are those, who have accepted the things that come from the Spirit of God>> agree the spiritual man judges all things, ( thus have spiritual questions and examine spiritual matters? ) but he is not subject to any ones judgment in doing so, is he?

Our heavenly Father has given all

Free Will to question and examine?
His Spoken Word>> gives us Instructions to>Test all Spirits?
You will know them by their fruits>
Prayer, communication with him, ask? seek? knock at my door?

For me it was not a carnal question, but a Spiritual question.

Greatly appreciate one’s time taken in doing so, seeking to give answer to, with ones reply.

Peace be with you also

 

[ColorMomma]

Beautiful! Thank you!

 

[rose321]

How do you know during communion Jesus made Himself present to His Blessed Mother, as He did to the disciples on the road to Emmaus in the breaking of bread?

Respectfully toward in pondering, the answer is>> we do not know, do we, we are assuming this or that or maybe this or that,yet such a important appearance is not recorded or written why?

Question
Does Jesus not make himself present to all who receive him in Communion taught he is Spiritually present?

Question
Why was it not written, or mentioned within the Gospels of the 12 Apostles, by Luke James Epistles, St Paul, or within other sources stating that Jesus first appeared to his Beloved Mother and the great important role of our Blessed Mother, within the Faithful Household of the Lord?

Question,
All who dearly loved>>>>,whom Jesus appeared to after his crucifixion> including his Beloved Mother, who sorrowfully witnessed her beloved son>> horrible death, innocent suffering, persecution>>>> would his Beloved Mother, not be >>>>jubilantly spreading herself>>> the good news >>>>within her circle of his loving family, friends, Apostles, disciples, if Jesus presented himself to her first>>>He is alive, weep not?

Question
Is why would her beloved Son not first appear to his beloved Mother and leaving us only to assume such?

Question
Why was it not important for the Apostles, St Paul (never mentions Blessed Mary does he, why?) to record within the Gospels or within other sources>>> that Jesus >>>>first >>>appeared to his Beloved Mother, but leaves us only to assume this or that or maybe this or that?

Peace

 

[Chris4]

It is true Benjamin1973 is a present day “clone” of the experimentalist Thomas Didymus we read of John 20:24. There is something telling in Christ’s prayer we find in Matthew 11:25 or Luke 10:21. It appears it is not the ‘bright’ guys and the upscale lot who get it. If it has to be the intelligent ones to be used, there has to be a Saul/Paul conversion with an actual fall to the ground which will symbolically empty the head of everything he has learnt to make him receive new things. Benjamin1973 is too clever to understand the mystery.

 

[edwest211]

Jesus Christ is fully present in the Eucharist.