Liturgical Abuses at Mass

[Joe_5859]

I am confused so would appreciate responses. Thank you.

A lot of posters have already replied as to why these things are not liturgical abuses, so I won’t retread that ground.

I just want to encourage you to seek a spirit of peace when you go to Mass. I am convinced that the devil delights in making good Catholics so distracted by potential liturgical “abuse” at Mass that we fail to really enter in to the Mass and focus on what we should be focusing on—Jesus Christ and his Paschal Mystery. If the devil cannot stop us from going to Mass, he will seek to distract us so that it will not be transformative for us.

So be not afraid. Do not let your heart be troubled. If the priest does or says something that seems odd, just dismiss it and turn your eyes to Christ.

Obviously, if you had described things that were genuinely liturgical abuse, my advice would be different. But nothing you have mentioned makes me believe that is the case for your situation.

 

[pnewton]

Also, are guitar masses allowed every Sunday, or is this an abuse?

Could you clarify a Martin is used, a Takamini or some other? No, I am not being serious, but I do have my prejudice.

I like coming to these threads. It reminds me of how far the Church has come in stopping some of the experimentation and weird stuff. Questions like this almost always have a simple answer of “no” any more, as what stands out is less and less extreme.

 

[TheMortenBay]

Is there a guideline for how many parishioners there are vs how many EMHCs should be used?

You can see the guidelines on the USCCB website (for the US).

“When recourse is had to Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion, especially in the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds, their number should not be increased beyond what is required for the orderly and reverent distribution of the Body and Blood of the Lord. In all matters such Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion should follow the guidance of the diocesan bishop (IBID).”

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-wor...inary-ministers-of-holy-communion-at-mass.cfm

There is however not a guideline as to exactly how many faithful per eucharistic minister. Which may be the problem. If the USCCB would release that I could simply have my own opinion in contrast with the Bishops, and THEN it would be only my opinion and not my assessment, which is only slightly different.
I’d only add, that if all priests currently only use the amount of EMHCs they think are required to “get the job done”, their judgement is so out of whack in some parishes, that I’d rather take the lesser evil that they commit an abuse “because they like many EMHCs”.

 

[CilladeRoma]

For me the issue is why do we rely so heavily on EMHCs, especially in smaller parishes. I’ve been to parishes with 40 people at Mass, a priest and deacon, and 3 EMHCs. Yeah, it’s up to the priest’s discretion, but still seems excessive.

In my diocese, if the cup is offered, which is the case in most parishes,
it is required to have 2 cup ministers for every bread minister. In my parish, we have 1 priest and 5 EMHC. One assists the priest with distribution of the bread, while the other 4 are cup ministers.
In the parish where i grew up, because it is a semi-circular building, we have 6 Communion stations. There is one priest and occasionally a deacon, so we need at least 5 more bread ministers and 10 cup ministers.

So, it is not a cut and dry formula, and only the pastor truly knows the needs for his parish.

And before anyone says anything, yes, I know that we do not NEED to receive from the cup, but it is a fuller sign value, and one that my Bishop allows if the Pastor so desires.

 

[catholic03]

Wow! I log in and there are ten notifications on my account!

I just want to say thank you for your replies. I appreciate them.

If you are going around “worrying” about abuse everywhere, something is off with you—not the Church.

I understand why you’d think that. Again, I am young and looking at another 70 years of attending Mass every week, and I’d been watching YouTube clips and reading about this so I was just curious.

That seems rather harsh and condescending. Just because the poster is asking questions about what constitutes liturgical abuse, doesn’t mean something is “off” with them.

The questions are valid, especially if they are coming from an intent to learn and understand why some parishes celebrate the Novus Ordo with many different practices and habits.

Thank you, although I know from experience that it’s hard to not come across as judgemental on an Internet forum and all members here have the best of intentions when posting.

I wish I could reply to all. I was just concerned about what was an abuse and what was not. After reading this, I am very happy and am feeling much better.

God Bless.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

For some reason in USA they don’t like to use the words “Charismatic Mass” in some places. Maybe they get harassed.

“Healing Mass” and “Holy Spirit Mass” are often tip-offs that it’s going to be charismatic. I realize there is a Mass of the Holy Spirit also that is just a normal Mass, but usually they don’t announce those, the priest might just choose to say one on days when he is permitted to do so.

 

[catholic03]

In New Zealand, we use the words ‘Healing Mass’ and ‘Charismatic Mass’ interchangeably.

There’s often a notice in our parish newsletter about such a Mass at another parish. Maybe I’ll go sometime and check it out.

Not that I’d necessarily want to join an EF parish, but in my capital city of 420,000 people, there isn’t one Latin Mass available. In a city around 2 1/2 hours drive away (which has 90,000 people), they have the Latin Mass!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m sorry you don’t have the option for Latin Mass. I think it’s nice to hear different types of Masses so I go to some of everything. TLMs, guitar Mass, organ music Mass, Anglican Ordinariate Mass, charismatic Mass, and a couple of Divine Liturgies. And churches from all available eras (which in US only go back to maybe the 1700s at most - in Europe or Holy Land I can go to some older churches, or in a catacomb in Rome, etc).

You might want to check on whether there are any monasteries near you that offer one. The Carmelites in my area have occasional Latin Masses.

 

[on_the_hill]

When one is thinking that a guitar is somehow liturgically abusive, one might want to recall that “Silent Night” was composed for guitar accompaniment and first played (solely) on guitar at a Christmas Mass. I’d hate to think we would, in the interest of misguided liturgical rigidity, lose one of the most reverent hymns composed.

 

[catholic03]

We do have a beautiful OF with lots of Latin and ceremony that I sometimes go to. In our city we have probably 30 Churches and not one has the EF. I’m not blaming Cardinal Dew, my bishop, but it would be nice to have that option. Especially since many other major city in NZ have the EF. I’m not complaining, as I am happy in my parish but it’d be nice to have other options.

Oldest building in New Zealand was built in 1822. Oldest Catholic Church still in use in the mid-late 1800s. Our under repair cathedral was built in 1901 and my parish Church in the late 1960s. It’d be amazing to attend Mass somewhere older!

 

[catholic03]

Only Latin Mass here is offered weekly by SSPX or fortnightly by sedevacantists!

 

[po18guy]

1. See a potential problem, go directly to the priest and ask. He may very well have a reasonable explanation.
2. Whatever abuses there are, fall on the priest and not on you.
3. The purpose of the laity is to obey Christ’s commend to offer the unbloody sacrifice each Lord’s day.
4. Since the mass is divine, but offered by flawed humans, it will not be necessarily perfect.
5. If the elements of the consecration are present, it is a valid mass.

If we perceive the mass not only as sacrifice, but as a type of holy hour spent before the Lord; if we close our eyes to the actions or inactions of others; if we focus our eyes on the Tabernacle - wherein perfection resides - we will focus less on the flaws of those around us. Flaws which we share with them.

Our concupiscence leads us to find flaws in those around us, when at the same time it reveals the flaws within us.

Just ask Father.

 

[CRV]

In addition to your post I think the following two are important-

RS #158
" 158. Indeed, the extraordinary minister of Holy Communion may administer Communion only when the Priest and Deacon are lacking, when the Priest is prevented by weakness or advanced age or some other genuine reason, or when the number of faithful coming to Communion is so great that the very celebration of Mass would be unduly prolonged.[259] This, however, is to be understood in such a way that a brief prolongation, considering the circumstances and culture of the place, is not at all a sufficient reason."

and

160 Let the diocesan Bishop give renewed consideration to the practice in recent years regarding this matter, and if circumstances call for it, let him correct it or define it more precisely. Where such extraordinary ministers are appointed in a widespread manner out of true necessity, the diocesan Bishop should issue special norms by which he determines the manner in which this function is to be carried out in accordance with the law, bearing in mind the tradition of the Church.

 

[CRV]

“Healing Mass” and “Holy Spirit Mass” are often tip-offs that it’s going to be charismatic

Thank you for the tip - I’ll keep that in mind when reading other parishes newsletters when I wish to attend a Mass other than my parish.

 

[Brendan_64]

At another parish I went to Mass at, the priest omitted the homily and read out a message from the President of the Bishops Conference when the rubrics state that on Sunday the priest must say a homily even if he also wishes to read an announcement. There were also no kneelers at this parish.

A letter from the bishop can replace the homily, in fact it becomes the homily. Over here, in the UK, it is common for a pastoral letter from the bishop to be played on a CD during the homily slot on certain Sunday Masses whenever the bishop decides he needs to communicate to his flock like this. And also if it is a weekday Mass the priest does not even have to give a homily anyway.

As for kneelers, I personally wouldn’t like a church where there were no kneelers, but they are not mandatory.

 

[Dovekin]

or when the number of faithful coming to Communion is so great that the very celebration of Mass would be unduly prolonged .

The implication here is that an “unduly prolonged” mass is a liturgical abuse. (depending on the circumstances and culture)

a brief prolongation, considering the circumstances and culture of the place, is not at all a sufficient reason.

I think this saying a brief prolongation can be considered, but it depends on circumstances and culture. In some places, even a brief prolongation might be considered an abuse.

 

[DeniseNY]

There is however not a guideline as to exactly how many faithful per eucharistic minister. Which may be the problem. If the USCCB would release that I could simply have my own opinion in contrast with the Bishops, and THEN it would be only my opinion and not my assessment, which is only slightly different.

I’ve read that and as you mention, since there is no guideline I have a hard time second guessing/questioning what any given pastor does - particularly if that second guessing is based solely on my own personal preferences and/or likes/dislikes.

 

[OraLabora]

The reality of today’s Church is that the priest might have another Mass to celebrate at a parish that is 30 minutes away, so he needs to get away at least 40 minutes before in order to have time to prepare. If the Mass you’re attending started at 9, and he has a Mass at 10:30 in another parish, he may need EMHC to finish early enough to have enough time to get away and over to the next Mass.

We can’t always see what is going on behind the scenes. It behooves is to charitably accept that the priest has valid reasons.

Once I was driving to Mass and the priest passed me on the highway going like a bat out of hell. He arrived before me, about 15 min before Mass started, enough time to vest and greet parishioners.

It really drove home the point about how stretched thin priests are these days, with priests having to cover multiple parishes.

 

[on_the_hill]

Some of Europe’s great churches don’t have kneelers.

 

[CRV]

The implication here is that an “unduly prolonged” mass is a liturgical abuse.

I don’t read it that way. My understanding is that an EMHC should only be used when there is such a large number of communicants that the Mass would be unduly prolonged. Not as I understand your post, which if I’m understanding how you mean it to read, is that an unduly prolonged Mass itself is an abuse. Which it clearly is not.

The EF Mass at my parish goes for approximately 1 hour and 15 minutes, and that is with I’d guess 98% of parishioners receiving Communion, and the Church would hold well over 500 people and it is well attended.

I think a Sunday Mass lasting between 1 and 1.5hrs I wouldn’t call unduly prolonged. Having Mass extend 15mins past the usual 1hr in either form, imo would be considered a brief prolongation. Yet, I have attended the Mass where it was well attended and in addition to the priest there was an EMHC with the Blessed Sacrament and two other EMHC with the Precious Blood, so when I compare the two - I personally do not see the need for so many EMHC, at least not in the average surburban parishes in my city.

There was one place I sometimes went for daily Mass and the priest would give communion to the two lines approaching him and there was one or sometimes two EMHC with the Precious Blood. I personally have no problem with that.