Liturgical Abuses at Mass

[TheLittleLady]

At my parish, there are many extraordinary ministers of holy communion, even though I’m pretty sure they are ‘extraordinary’ for a reason according to the missal.

“Ordinary ministers of Holy Communion” are ordained men. “Extraordinary” means that they are lay persons. Use of EMHCs is not an abuse.

the priest omitted the homily and read out a message from the President of the Bishops Conference

The Bishop can write a letter to be read, that can serve as the homily. In fact, every Bishop’s letter I have ever heard weaves in Scripture and teachings. Not an abuse.

Also, are guitar masses allowed every Sunday, or is this an abuse? I

There is no rubric that bans guitars, or flutes, or harpsichords, or pianos.

You may want to take organ lessons so you can volunteer to play for Mass.

I am very confused about what constitutes an abuse,

An abuse is a flagrant, intentional defiance of the rubrics.

Is a ‘charismatic Mass’ with hand waving and lively music allowed?

While it is not my spiritual cup of tea, there is not a prohibition against charismatic masses.

What should I do if these are abuses?

I used to sit in Mass as the “liturgy police” watching for every single misstep from the rubrics. It got to the place where I was so focused on catching a “gotcha” that I was not worshipping my Lord.

Trust your pastor, trust your Bishop.

 

[Jen7]

You sound like your mind is so burdened! I just want to address your “what do I do” question. In all these cases I would do… nothing. Truly. Can you find a parish that is the least uncomfortable possible and stick with their Masses. Perhaps it may help to close your eyes and imagine yourself at Calvary, the Last Supper, in heaven, etc during Mass. These are the unseen realities regardless of what music is being played, how many Eucharistic Ministers there are, or if/what the priest preaches during the homily.

If it’s any consolation, the bishop is your priest’s spiritual father. It is his responsibility to be checking in to be sure things are done properly. Not that I trust many of the bishops to care much these days… but that’s between them and God. The laity aren’t priest-police/liturgical-correctness police.

 

[TheMortenBay]

I recommend going to the traditional Latin Mass. A lot of very reverend clergy and faithful. Abuses will then be far and few between. Good luck!

 

[paperwight]

TheMortenBay:

It IS however an abuse to use extraordinary ministers to further “lay involvement” in the liturgy. Which is how it’s used in almost every parish I’ve been to.

How so?

10 char

Indeed. How do you know this, TheMortenBay?

 

[TheMortenBay]

How do you know this, TheMortenBay?

As I said in my post, it’s my experience that it’s overdone in most parishes I’ve been to. And it’s true that it’s up to the pastor to decide what’s “fast enough” or “good enough” or “many enough”, but does the fact that it’s not the laity’s job to police it make it less of an abuse? I.e. if the priest says “let’s hold hands and say the Our Father” does that mean it’s not an abuse because it’s the priest’s fault?

 

[Peeps]

[157.] If there is usually present a sufficient number of sacred ministers for the distribution of Holy Communion, extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion may not be appointed. Indeed, in such circumstances, those who may have already been appointed to this ministry should not exercise it. The practice of those Priests is reprobated who, even though present at the celebration, abstain from distributing Communion and hand this function over to laypersons.

I think the key phrase is the one I bolded above.

I’ve been Catholic since 2004, and I’ve been in quite a few Catholic churches for Mass during travels, and because I play organ/piano in my area (Northern Illinois).

I’ve seen very few parishes that have more than 1 or 2 priests, and some share a priest. Out in the farm lands, one priest may travel to 2 or 3 small towns to offer Mass at the church, or the priest may alternate Mass between 2 churches and it’s up to the parishioners to do the travelling.

I know at least one parish in our city that has three priests who all come out to serve Holy Communion at every Mass–but they still make use of EMHC. These priests live within a a stone’s throw of the church building in a small apartment on the church campus, so it’s not exhausting for them to step out of their apartments for a few moments to serve Holy Communion along with the presiding priest.

However, at our parish, which also has 3 priests, the priests live in apartments fairly far away from the church. It would be impractical for them to just hang out at the church from 6:30 a.m. Sunday morning until 1:30 p.m. when the last Mass is offered. (Actually, there is another Mass on Sunday evening, so the priests would have to all come back to the church for that Mass, too.) Doesn’t leave them much time for a “day of rest”, or to visit shut-ins and hospital patients, or see their family.

As others have said, the decision regarding EMHCs is totally up to the priest, and if anyone has issues with his routine, it would be best to ask him. But be prepared to receive his answer with grace!

 

[paperwight]

paperwight:

How do you know this, TheMortenBay?

As I said in my post, it’s my experience that it’s overdone in most parishes I’ve been to. And it’s true that it’s up to the pastor to decide what’s “fast enough” or “good enough” or “many enough”, but does the fact that it’s not the laity’s job to police it make it less of an abuse? I.e. if the priest says “let’s hold hands and say the Our Father” does that mean it’s not an abuse because it’s the priest’s fault?

I meant, how do you know the pastor is arranging so many EMHCs to ‘further lay involvement in the liturgy’ as you said in post 3, and not just for logistic reasons?

 

[OraLabora]

What do define as excessive lay involvement in the liturgy?

 

[1ke]

make it less of an abuse?

You haven’t actually established that it IS an “abuse.”

 

[TheMortenBay]

What do define as excessive lay involvement in the liturgy?

I don’t like the concept of EMHCs at mass. In almost all situations they’re expendable and I don’t believe lay people should be distributing communion at mass.
Lectors and altar servers are good lay ministries that actually take a certain skill and that are beneficial to the lay persons taking on that role as well as the parish. The same goes for the choir.
I think a lot of priests rely on EMHCs as a part of the liturgy or at least as a regular element. In my old parish we had two priests and a deacon for ~200 people. What do we need lay people distributing communion for?

 

[1ke]

I don’t like the concept of EMHCs at mass. In almost all situations they’re expendable and I don’t believe lay people should be distributing communion at mass.

Your dislike and/or preference is not the same thing as it being an “abuse”.

You haven’t presented any evidence for your position expressed in post above.

I think a lot of priests rely on EMHCs as a part of the liturgy or at least as a regular element. In my old parish we had two priests and a deacon for ~200 people. What do we need lay people distributing communion for?

Again, opinion.

 

[whatistrue]

In my old parish we had two priests and a deacon for ~200 people.

Your personal experience is not universal. In my parish, there is typically, at the Saturday evening Mass (Anticipated Mass for Sunday) a priest celebrant, sometimes a Deacon, and ordinarily one of the other priests present specifically to assist with distribution. If we only had 200 people in attendance, the place would look empty. Ordinarily we seat well over 1000 for each Sunday Mass, with many others standing on the periphery. How is distribution going to be accomplished in anything approaching a reasonable time without the use of EMHCs?

I don’t like the concept of EMHCs at mass.

Whether you like it or not is not the determining factor in whether it is an abuse.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t like the concept of EMHCs at mass. In almost all situations they’re expendable and I don’t believe lay people should be distributing communion at mass.
…
I think a lot of priests rely on EMHCs as a part of the liturgy or at least as a regular element.

This establishes that
a) you have a bias against EMHCs and
b) you’re giving your own opinion, and have not actually talked to each of these priests to ask them why they utilize EMHCs at Mass.

 

[TheMortenBay]

Your personal experience is not universal.

Probably not, but I have hear my complaint made many times on this forum.

How is distribution going to be accomplished in anything approaching a reasonable time without the use of EMHCs?

Your example is obviously not what I’m referring to as “almost all situations”. By that I merely mean, that I’ve rarely been to Mass where the EMHCs were essential for the expedient celebration of Mass. Obviously there’ll be exceptions. Your situation is definitely one.
EMHCs are specifically allowed to help out with distribution of communion to avoid unreasonably prolonging communion. If used for other reasons (as a habit/ custom, as a lirtugical element) it’s an abuse.
The reason I put stock in my EXPERIENCE of how EMHCs are used in the parishes I’ve frequented, is because I’m not trying to make myself judge of whether a particular case ACTUALLY is an abuse or not, I’m trying to stress that it’s how I see it.

 

[TheMortenBay]

This establishes that
a) you have a bias against EMHCs and

Yes.

b) you’re giving your own opinion, and have not actually talked to each of these priests to ask them why they utilize EMHCs at Mass

No. I’ve had ongoing (friendly) discussions with my own priest about his use of EMHCs.
True, I don’t make it a habit to assault the priest after visiting a new parish to make sure he’s using the EMHCs for the right reason.

 

[DeniseNY]

to make sure he’s using the EMHCs for the right reason.

What the wrong reasons? Isn’t it a pastoral judgement?

 

[TheMortenBay]

What the wrong reasons? Isn’t it a pastoral judgement?

Sure, it’s pastoral. But “pastoral” doesn’t mean “whatever the pastor thinks is right”. I think I’ve given at least two reasons above for what I consider “the wrong reasons”, seeing as they’re not the intention of having EMHCs: habitual use (we have had them for 30 years, so we better go on with it) or liturgical use (it looks so nice with 3 EMHCs up there even though we are less than 200 people)

 

[DeniseNY]

Yeah, but those still just seem like your own personal opinions on the use of EMHCs. Is there a guideline for how many parishioners there are vs how many EMHCs should be used?

 

[Bataar]

catholic03:

There were also no kneelers at this parish.

Why would this count as a “liturgical abuse”? In some countries kneelers are unknown. Everyone kneels on the floor.

I believe it would depend on the intent. Here in the states, the vast majority of people won’t kneel if kneelers aren’t present. One could make a very strong claim that kneelers are removed to discourage people from kneeling, which, IMO is an abuse.

 

[DeniseNY]

One could make a very strong claim that kneelers are removed to discourage people from kneeling, which, IMO is an abuse.

For the Latin Rite, not for Eastern Catholics.