Liturgical Music Borderline Sacrilegious????

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emmaberry

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Hello,
at 5pm Sunday Mass yesterday we had a visiting music minister, as we have been in between music leaders for a while. My parents and I were completely shocked to hear the tune of Another One Bites the Dust adapted for the Gospel ‘Allelulia Antiphon.’ My mother and I could not hold in our laughter. It was completely outrageous and a distraction like no other! This ‘modern take’ on liturgical music continued for most of the mass, excluding the intro and exit hymns.

The mass went like this:
Allelulia-Another One Bites the Dust by Queen
Eucharistic Prayer-Creep by Radiohead
Sanctus- We Are the Champions by Queen
1st Communion Song-Eye In the Sky by Alan Parson
2nd Communion Song-Twist & Shout by The Beatles

the words were changed but the track/instrumental was the same, with surging electronic drumbeats. My whole family was outraged, and my dad found the music borderline sacrilegious. The visiting music guy that led this has applied for our parish’s permanent music minister position. Should my family complain to the priest? To the Bishop?
Do you find this ‘music’ sacrilegious or just progressive?

I just feel bad for any visitors that were attending our parish!
 
:ouch:
That’s just wrong. Talk to your priest. Maybe get a few people to voice their distaste.
 
I would talk to your Priest about that and tell him everything you posted here. That is beyond progressive, imho
 
As you may have read in other threads, I’m all for the Haugen/Haas/Joncas style music in church. But Queen… Yea, that doesn’t even fly with me. I think going to the bishop is a bit extreme, since he’s not even employed by your parish. But put your 2 cents in with your pastor to loose this guy, fast.

Though, it does make me want to see how preposterous a combo of tune and liturgical text you could make. Alleluia to Helter Skelter? Our Father to Losing my Religion? 😃
 
Well, at least the clergy weren’t dressed as Elvis, etc. (stranger things have happened - just check out YouTube …).

But seriously, good advice has been given here - speak to the priest first and express your concerns. We all have a duty to ensure our liturgical expression is appropriately reverent.

P.S. For what its worth, when I read such things, I’m once again proud to be an Eastern Rite Catholic, where tradition still is the rule. Please try to experience the Eastern Rites at some point, if you haven’t already had such opportunity.
 
Talk to the Pastor. This doesn’t sound borderline sacrilegious, it sounds well beyond the border of sacrilegious. Hopefully, this music man will not get the job. Doesn’t sound like he has any sense of the sacred.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
P.S. For what its worth, when I read such things, I’m once again proud to be an Eastern Rite Catholic, where tradition still is the rule. Please try to experience the Eastern Rites at some point, if you haven’t already had such opportunity.
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I am currently discerning toward the Monastic Sisters of Bethlehem, who focus heavily on the Eastern Rite, which I find extremely beautiful and always reverent. Thanks for the advice! 🙂
 
Why would any pastor allow someone to choose profane music for the liturgy of the Mass? What about using the hymnals?
 
Cathryn said:
Why would any pastor allow someone to choose profane music for the liturgy of the Mass? What about using the hymnals?
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It is interesting that we are at present receiving Anglican Christians back into the Catholic Church, via Ordinariates in the UK and US, permitting them to retain their liturgical practices. They make copious use of hymnals replete with traditional Christian hymnody, much of which used to be commonplace in the Latin Rite. Perhaps we could borrow a few hymnals …
 
I think I would then wake up and go to Mass, because I’d figure that I dreamed that Mass.

I would obtain support to prevent this person from becoming music minister.
I would be very difficult to maintain due reverence and concentration with whatever profane music happened to inspire the minister on any given Sunday.
If he wishes to establish a popular music pastime in the parish it would advisably be external to the Mass.
One can understand a person wishing to be creative but there is a time and place.

It is difficult enough to talk to the Lord and be with the Lord when devotional hymns are loudly sung after Communion.
But to have the music of Twist and Shout loudly playing along with drums, would make recollection impossible.
 
Trishie said:
I think I would then wake up and go to Mass, because I’d figure that I dreamed the Mass.
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Exactly! Me and my mom keep laughing that sooner or later we will think, ‘That could NOT have happened…we must have dreamt it.’ :hmmm:
 
It is appropriate to report such things to the priest first. Egads! I wonder what they were thinking?
 
Yes, it is horrible. But will you permit to give a contrary view? Whoever chose or arranged that music for the liturgy has a boss or supervisor. if you are not the overseer in question, just leave it to that overseer to do their job. I strongly believe (from personal experience and observation) that it is very destructive to one’s personal spiritual progress to be a self-appointed Inquisitor or corrector of the sins of others. Be patient. Let others do their jobs. They will, eventually. You have YOUR work to do. Pray to God that you will do your work so that God will have no complaints against you. Don’t be like political activists and religious activists who constantly in a state of outrage about this or that shocking thing. The world is sock full of shocking things. You are not God. Even God deigns not to correct or intervene directly with everything. Humility and patience are the foundations of spiritual progress, as you know. Forget the horrible music at liturgy. It’s over. Do your work. Let that be enough. Trust in the Providence of God. Work hard, but in the vineyard assigned for you to work in. That is what I would say to you if I were your spiritual director. But since I am not, you are fully free to dismiss all my thoughts. I am nobody special, so there’s no reason to heed my counsel. Best wishes.
 
Bartolome_Casas said:
Yes, it is horrible. But will you permit to give a contrary view? Whoever chose or arranged that music for the liturgy has a boss or supervisor. if you are not the overseer in question, just leave it to that overseer to do their job. I strongly believe (from personal experience and observation) that it is very destructive to one’s personal spiritual progress to be a self-appointed Inquisitor or corrector of the sins of others. Be patient. Let others do their jobs. They will, eventually. You have YOUR work to do. Pray to God that you will do your work so that God will have no complaints against you. Don’t be like political activists and religious activists who constantly in a state of outrage about this or that shocking thing. The world is sock full of shocking things. You are not God. Even God deigns not to correct or intervene directly with everything. Humility and patience are the foundations of spiritual progress, as you know. Forget the horrible music at liturgy. It’s over. Do your work. Let that be enough. Trust in the Providence of God. Work hard, but in the vineyard assigned for you to work in. That is what I would say to you if I were your spiritual director. But since I am not, you are fully free to dismiss all my thoughts. I am nobody special, so there’s no reason to heed my counsel. Best wishes.
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SIGH. I had thought of this so my family decided that we would let someone else do that work. However, we are friends with the music visitor guy’s overseer and he thought the arrangement was phenomenal-the overseer is the one who offered the visiting musician a full time job. I completely see your point and know it is spiritually destructive for me to sit back and judge this guy, whether it is warranted or not. At this point my parents and I are concerned about whether anyone else besides us will talk to the parish priest. Thanks for your insight!
 
Bartolome_Casas said:
Yes, it is horrible. But will you permit to give a contrary view? Whoever chose or arranged that music for the liturgy has a boss or supervisor. if you are not the overseer in question, just leave it to that overseer to do their job.
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Yes, but this overseer is the priest. There is no harm in giving feedback to the priest.
 
emmaberry said:
I am currently discerning toward the Monastic Sisters of Bethlehem, who focus heavily on the Eastern Rite, which I find extremely beautiful and always reverent. Thanks for the advice! 🙂
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Keep in mind that your latin rite catholic church is not the norm for latin rite churches. Maybe search out a more traditionally focused church, such as those that offer latin Mass and (oftentimes) those that don’t look mod, which is a major sign of how reverent the parish may be.

I guess what I’m saying is, just because you have had a bad experience with your parish, doesn’t mean all latin rite churches are weird and irreverent.

My church is very old fashioned still has latin Mass, still utilizes altar rails (very beautiful ones at that)incense, etc and is very, very reverent.
 
It’s been going on for centuries. If you knew the original words to some of our best loved hymns, it would stop you singing them for ever. As William Booth said “Why should the devil have all the best tunes?”

There are a number of settings of Mass based upon the tune “The Armed Man”. The original concept was much further removed from Christian teaching than anything by Queen.

In mediaeval England, it was considered irreverent to sing religious Mass settings outside of Mass. Choirs and musicians would rehearse at the tavern, singing ribald words to the music of the Mass.
 
Consider the following song:
Alas, my love, you do me wrong,
To cast me off discourteously.
For I have loved you well and long,
Delighting in your company.
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Chorus:
Greensleeves was all my joy
Greensleeves was my delight,
Greensleeves was my heart of gold,
And who but my lady greensleeves.
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Alas, my love, that you should own
A heart of wanton vanity,
So I must meditate alone
Upon your insincerity.
(Chorus)
Your vows you’ve broken, like my heart,
Oh, why did you so enrapture me?
Now I remain in a world apart
But my heart remains in captivity.
(Chorus)
I have been ready at your hand,
To grant whatever you would crave,
I have both wagered life and land,
Your love and good-will for to have.
(Chorus)
If you intend thus to disdain,
It does the more enrapture me,
And even so, I still remain
A lover in captivity.
(Chorus)
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Is it acceptable to adapt the same tune from this song for a hymn, while changing its lyrics?
 
emmaberry said:
Hello,
at 5pm Sunday Mass yesterday we had a visiting music minister, as we have been in between music leaders for a while. My parents and I were completely shocked to hear the tune of Another One Bites the Dust adapted for the Gospel ‘Allelulia Antiphon.’
Click to expand...
I would suggest that your pastor, unless some sort of “oops” notification is given, knew that this type of thing was going to happen. He may have even thought that it would help the laity “participate” more in the Mass (sometimes they have a perverse idea of what lay participation is). To be certain, you would be best to hold off and wait to see if such a thing happens again (at least IMHO).

Before going to your priest, your bishop, or the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (as is your right, if you get no satisfaction otherwise), I would follow Father Z’s guidelines for writing to the hierarchy. The big thing is “evidence” – along with charity – therefore, you might want to consider taking a small tape recorder or a phone with an extended voice recorder capability in order to capture the profane music during the Mass.

The other thing I would suggest is that your family and you review the pertinent doctrine prior to making your concerns known to anybody. You need to distinguish between what is your “opinion” and what constitutes a liturgical abuse. If you simply don’t like the music, then still say something…with charity…but recognize that it is your opinion you are expressing and other peoples’ opinions may not agree with yours. On the other hand, if the music actually constitutes a liturgical abuse, then you have a right to see that it does not happen.

Other than RS, which I’m sure some have implied (if not cited), I would refer you to three key documents:
  1. Motu Proprio Tra le Sollecitudini – Instruction on Sacred Music (1903) by Pope St Pius X. What seems to apply from that instruction:
  2. II Vatican Council Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium, particularly Chapter VI: Sacred Music:
  3. Chriograph of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II for the Centenary of the Motu Proprio Tra Le Sollecitudini on Sacred Music…one quote from this 2003 document:
  1. On various occasions I too have recalled the precious role and great importance of music and song for a more active and intense participation in liturgical celebrations[9]. I have also stressed the need to “purify worship from ugliness of style, from distasteful forms of expression, from uninspired musical texts which are not worthy of the great act that is being celebrated”[10], to guarantee dignity and excellence to liturgical compositions.
In this perspective, in the light of the Magisterium of St Pius X and my other Predecessors and taking into account in particular the pronouncements of the Second Vatican Council, I would like to re-propose several fundamental principles for this important sector of the life of the Church, with the intention of ensuring that liturgical music corresponds ever more closely to its specific function.
  1. In continuity with the teachings of St Pius X and the Second Vatican Council, it is necessary first of all to emphasize that music destined for sacred rites must have holiness as its reference point: indeed, “sacred music increases in holiness to the degree that it is intimately linked with liturgical action”[11]. For this very reason, “not all without distinction that is outside the temple (profanum) is fit to cross its threshold”, my venerable Predecessor Paul VI wisely said, commenting on a Decree of the Council of Trent[12]. And he explained that “if music - instrumental and vocal - does not possess at the same time the sense of prayer, dignity and beauty, it precludes the entry into the sphere of the sacred and the religious”[13]. Today, moreover, the meaning of the category “sacred music” has been broadened to include repertoires that cannot be part of the celebration without violating the spirit and norms of the Liturgy itself.
St Pius X’s reform aimed specifically at purifying Church music from the contamination of profane theatrical music that in many countries had polluted the repertoire and musical praxis of the Liturgy. In our day too, careful thought, as I emphasized in the Encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia, should be given to the fact that not all the expressions of figurative art or of music are able “to express adequately the mystery grasped in the fullness of the Church’s faith”[14]. Consequently, not all forms of music can be considered suitable for liturgical celebrations.
 
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