Liturgical Music

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Paxvobis

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I want to know, when attending a Mass without Gregorian Chant, which you prefer: the Mass of Glory or the Mass of Creation.

Personally, I prefer Gregorian chant to both, but when at a vernacular Mass, I prefer the Mass of Creation (to divulge something a little embarrassing, the Mass of Creation actually prompted me to cry at Mass when I was returning to the Church :o)

However, I despise the Mass of Glory. :mad::mad::mad: In my opinion, it seems too relaxed, jazzy, and dare I say, protestant, to be used for the Sacrifice of the Mass. It destroys the mood I have before the consecration (hard to describe, something like a mixture of reverence, fear, and awe).

But enough about me, I want to know you’re opinions. 🙂

Anyway, I understand some of you may not know what the Mass of Glory or the Mass of Creation are. So, I have links to parts of them to jog your memories. I’m confident that everybody has heard both these mass settings at least once.

The Mass of Glory
Alleluia before the Gospel: youtube.com/watch?v=k6Qjsxq8dU4

Sanctus: youtube.com/watch?v=3tw458LTWgI&NR=1

Great Amen: youtube.com/watch?v=dNNbFwBgweM&feature=related

Angus Dei: youtube.com/watch?v=JWPYn99GxsI

The Mass of Creation
Gloria: youtube.com/watch?v=P45LGcOFsPs

Sanctus: youtube.com/watch?v=n7IMrqoH5pY&feature=related

Great Amen: youtube.com/watch?v=U6BInEWWG00&feature=related

Angus Dei: youtube.com/watch?v=6ZoIXgp0kBw&feature=related
 
Is there a reason why you are only listing two settings?

I personally like the Mass of Redemption because of the lovely melodies. I’m guessing that it won’t be allowed beginning with Advent because the Gloria is not word-for-word according to the translation. Hopefully the lyrics can be re-worked to be in compliance, because the melodies are nice. It will say that the Mystery of Faith and the Amen start out kind of high, but at least it can be sung entirely in a head voice with no jumping back and forth.

Creation is difficult to sing, IMO. The Gloria is rather jumpy, going back and forth between higher and lower pitches. The key is smack in the middle of most people’s break, and so they have to alternate between head voice and whatever other voice they use, and that’s hard, so many people just don’t sing it. It could be transposed down, but then it gets so growly in those low notes that a lot of people, especially children, can’t sing it. Also, I find the Creation setting quite plodding–it’s like it can’t make up its mind whether it wants to be traditional or classical, so it kind of hangs out between the two and never really finds a home. But my primary reason for not liking it is that it’s hard to sing. I wish churches would stop using it for that reason.

I personally don’t mind Mass of Glory, but I think that without excellent musicians, it sounds painful and kind of embarrassing. Whoever plays has to have the ability to swing; it cannot be played in a baroque or classical style, or with a straight rhythm. It HAS to swing. I also think that many people in parishes that are primarily Euro-American feel uncomfortable with this Mass setting, mainly because it is so un-traditional, and for many, has worldly associations. (I am a convert from evangelical Protestantism, so for ME, it sounds very “church-y” and religious and "gospel,: This is the kind of music I grew up with.) It really needs to be sung with fervor and full voices, or it sounds wimpy and pathetic.

I like Mass of Angels and Saints, but it is mainly in minor keys, which can sound kind of depressing. Also, the Alleluia is sooooooo long, and so are the other Mass parts. I think that the people get kind of weary of singing and singing the same thing over and over. If it could be shortened, I think it would be very nice. But I don’t like so much minor key. Also, it does kind of plod along unless the tempo is lively, and some people feel uncomfortable with anything at Mass sung faster than “dirge.” I don’t know why–I guess they think it’s irreverent. I personally like a little dance tempo in the Mass parts.
 
I dislike both settings.

Both Alleluias give me hives because they add all those unnecessary words. The Agnus Deis adds tropes, a no-no.

I still have a preference for Somerville’s “(New) Good Shepherd Mass” but I must admit that I haven’t been exposed to many different settings in my life. Most English parishes where I worshipped in English used Somerville’s composition until MOC became ubiquitous. Of course for a while there was the steady use of the Celtic Alleluia - which resurfaces when there is no choir or musician and someone decides to lead the singing at Saturday evening’s Mass.

Lately our DM has opted to give up most of MOC and I’ve managed to figure out by comparing what we’re singing with what’s in the CBW III that she has opted for:

Proulx’s “Community Mass” Gloria

Haugen’s “Mass of Creation” Alleluia

Paul Benoit’s EP Acclamations (He’s a Canadian composer I can find nothing about but whose unnamed Mass setting I’ve noticed used frequently in the Archdiocese of Halifax where he lives - or lived when CBW III was published.)

Isele’s “Holy Cross Mass” Agnus Dei
 
I’m not a fan of the Mass of Creation, but I really don’t like the Mass of Glory. I’ve experimented with the music in the past when I’ve had to cantor it and have found it is not the kind that can be easily refined for mass (to sound less like a show song), as I felt wrong to sing it the way it was intended and didn’t want to be accused of choosing the music and “performing” (it’s amazing how many people think that cantors always choose the music - I’ve never been allowed to choose the music only, except when I was a music director for a kids’ choir). But as Cat mentioned it does need to swing, so it’s one of those kinds of music that sounds ridiculous if played more straight. Fortunately, most churches I know don’t use it for that very reason and because it is too secular-sounding for most parishes. As a side note, the Gospel Acclamation always reminded me of a movie I saw once where there was this sexy woman doing some sort of strip tease and the music was extremely similar to the Alleluia.

For the Mass of Creation, (when more parishes in my diocese was doing it) my experience in the various parishes have been that they do sing most of the mass parts well. I don’t believe that the Gloria is difficult in terms of where the music sits. It doesn’t go too low or too high as most hymns sit around the same notes and having cantored enough masses and listening to individuals and congregations, most congregations can easily sing other musical compositions within this range. I think it is difficult more because of how it is written for the untrained voice. There are certain ways to write music for the untrained voice in order to make it easier to maneuver from the lower part of the register to the upper part. I have found that the Lamb of God, for example, is difficult to sing for many people because of the way the line jumps up and down from B-flat to F back up to B-flat then to the D and back down to the C. I always hear people crack or hit the note too high or too low on the word “the” on the D. People “think” the music is too high, yet I’ve heard the same people sing those same notes written differently for other music without any problem at all. It’s all about how the music is composed. A trained singer knows how to mentally keep everything in one line, but many untrained singers don’t. Thus, I think that particular mass is poorly written for the untrained singer.

In regards to the question in the OP, if “The Mass of Creation” and “Mass of Glory” were the only two mass settings available, then I’d choose the “Mass of Creation”. But since they aren’t the only two available, I’d choose neither.

Honestly, I’m not particularly crazy about most mass settings and I think the Glorias are never that great. I don’t mind the Proulx “Community Mass”. I do like the Schubert “Deutsche Messe”, but it can become pedantic if not played/sung correctly. Sometimes it is taken way too slow and that’s hard for a congregation to sing, so the tempi should go a little quicker. It sounds good with organ, but best with organ and strings AND a choir.
 
I detest the Mass of Glory. My favorite Mass settting has to be Mass of Light or getting away from the Post Vatican II music, I have in my heart an especial love for the Chant. There’s nothing like Chant.

God bless.
 
Cat said:
Is there a reason why you are only listing two settings?
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The reason is that, not being involved with the choir, these are the only two settings I know of. I never hear another setting in my diocese.
I personally don’t mind Mass of Glory, but I think that without excellent musicians, it sounds painful and kind of embarrassing. Whoever plays has to have the ability to swing; it cannot be played in a baroque or classical style, or with a straight rhythm. It HAS to swing. I also think that many people in parishes that are primarily Euro-American feel uncomfortable with this Mass setting, mainly because it is so un-traditional, and for many, has worldly associations. (I am a convert from evangelical Protestantism, so for ME, it sounds very “church-y” and religious and "gospel,: This is the kind of music I grew up with.)
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Sarabande said:
I’m not a fan of the Mass of Creation, but I really don’t like the Mass of Glory. I’ve experimented with the music in the past when I’ve had to cantor it and have found it is not the kind that can be easily refined for mass (to sound less like a show song), as I felt wrong to sing it the way it was intended and didn’t want to be accused of choosing the music and “performing” (it’s amazing how many people think that cantors always choose the music - I’ve never been allowed to choose the music only, except when I was a music director for a kids’ choir). But as Cat mentioned it does need to swing, so it’s one of those kinds of music that sounds ridiculous if played more straight. Fortunately, most churches I know don’t use it for that very reason and because it is too secular-sounding for most parishes.
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I think that’s why I don’t like the Mass of Glory. For me at least, it seems too relaxed and secular for the Sacrifice of the Mass. When they play the ‘Sanctus’ I feel like I’m listening to the radio. I like music at Mass that’s really powerful and highlights what’s going on on the altar.
 
CatholicZ09 said:
I have never heard Mass of Glory at my parish before, and I certainly hope that I never do!

I have always loved Owen Alstott’s Heritage Mass

Gloria
youtube.com/watch?v=ACdBrUcJKQw

Sanctus, Memorial Acclamation A, Great Amen, Lamb of God
youtube.com/watch?v=gJzG1c61wys

Mass of Creation has never been a favorite of mine, neither has St. Louis Jesuits’ Mass.
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I also don’t mind the “Heritage Mass”. I think it is much easier to sing for a congregation than the Mass of Creation and I like the melodies more than the MoC. A choir can also make it sound nice with the sopranos and altos singing the Latin over the main melody.

The St. Louis Jesuit’s mass isn’t my favorite either. A parish I regularly cantor at does it once in a while (I always feel wrong singing the Amen because I know it’s not supposed to be done that way) and the congregation does sing the Sanctus well, but the Memorial Acclamation (When We Eat this Bread) and the Agnus Dei isn’t sung as well, even though I know the parishioners like the music. It has the similar problem with how the music is written making it harder for the untrained voice to maneuver through the notes. You always hear people drop out during parts of the music.
 
I voted for neither since I like Gregorian Chant. I have to say though that from the videos you posted the Mass of Creation ranks infinitely better than the Mass of Glory. I almost felt nauseous listening to the songs from the Mass of Glory videos.
 
I also don’t mind the “Heritage Mass”. I think it is much easier to sing for a congregation than the Mass of Creation and I like the melodies more than the MoC. A choir can also make it sound nice with the sopranos and altos singing the Latin over the main melody.
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I never liked Mass of Creation’s negative tone to it. 🤷
The St. Louis Jesuit’s mass isn’t my favorite either. A parish I regularly cantor at does it once in a while (I always feel wrong singing the Amen because I know it’s not supposed to be done that way) and the congregation does sing the Sanctus well, but the Memorial Acclamation (When We Eat this Bread) and the Agnus Dei isn’t sung as well, even though I know the parishioners like the music. It has the similar problem with how the music is written making it harder for the untrained voice to maneuver through the notes. You always hear people drop out during parts of the music.
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We are actually currently using St. Louis Jesuits’ Mass right now at my parish. The added language in the Great Amen really irks me.

OCP’s missals don’t really offer much in regards to Mass settings. The only one that I like out of any of them is Heritage Mass.
 
I am in love with the Mass of Creation. The Gloria is absolutely beautiful. I was brought to tears when listening to it when the lights came on at Easter Vigil. 🙂
 
Paxvobis said:
I want to know, when attending a Mass without Gregorian Chant, which you prefer: the Mass of Glory or the Mass of Creation.

Personally, I prefer Gregorian chant to both, but when at a vernacular Mass, I prefer the Mass of Creation (to divulge something a little embarrassing, the Mass of Creation actually prompted me to cry at Mass when I was returning to the Church :o)

However, I despise the Mass of Glory. :mad::mad::mad: In my opinion, it seems too relaxed, jazzy, and dare I say, protestant, to be used for the Sacrifice of the Mass. It destroys the mood I have before the consecration (hard to describe, something like a mixture of reverence, fear, and awe).

But enough about me, I want to know you’re opinions. 🙂

Anyway, I understand some of you may not know what the Mass of Glory or the Mass of Creation are. So, I have links to parts of them to jog your memories. I’m confident that everybody has heard both these mass settings at least once.

The Mass of Glory
Alleluia before the Gospel: youtube.com/watch?v=k6Qjsxq8dU4

Sanctus: youtube.com/watch?v=3tw458LTWgI&NR=1

Great Amen: youtube.com/watch?v=dNNbFwBgweM&feature=related

Angus Dei: youtube.com/watch?v=JWPYn99GxsI

The Mass of Creation
Gloria: youtube.com/watch?v=P45LGcOFsPs

Sanctus: youtube.com/watch?v=n7IMrqoH5pY&feature=related

Great Amen: youtube.com/watch?v=U6BInEWWG00&feature=related

Angus Dei: youtube.com/watch?v=6ZoIXgp0kBw&feature=related
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We only sing the Creation Mass at our church. I have never heard the Mass of Glory. Sounds kind of folk-rock to me. When did it originate?
 
CatholicZ09 said:
I have never heard Mass of Glory at my parish before, and I certainly hope that I never do!

I have always loved Owen Alstott’s Heritage Mass

Gloria
youtube.com/watch?v=ACdBrUcJKQw

Sanctus, Memorial Acclamation A, Great Amen, Lamb of God
youtube.com/watch?v=gJzG1c61wys

Mass of Creation has never been a favorite of mine, neither has St. Louis Jesuits’ Mass.
Click to expand...
I mostly agree with you here! I love the Heritage Mass, and I’m thrilled that it’s being revised for the new translation. We use it pretty much year round outside Advent and Lent. (We chant the Kyrie in Greek all year, and use Latin settings of the Sanctus and Angus Dei in Advent and Lent. We also change up to different Alleluias seasonally.)

I’d never heard the Mass of Glory and it sounds like I would despise every minute of it. I know I dislike the St. Louis Jesuits setting.
Mass of Creation is what I’m most familiar with other than Heritage Mass. They use it at the Cathedral a lot. I admit I kind of like the Gloria and Sanctus but I can’t stand the Agnus Dei. They do not sing the Kyrie at the Cathedral.
 
Bbigam said:
I mostly agree with you here! I love the Heritage Mass, and I’m thrilled that it’s being revised for the new translation. We use it pretty much year round outside Advent and Lent. (We chant the Kyrie in Greek all year, and use Latin settings of the Sanctus and Angus Dei in Advent and Lent. We also change up to different Alleluias seasonally.)

I’d never heard the Mass of Glory and it sounds like I would despise every minute of it. I know I dislike the St. Louis Jesuits setting.
Mass of Creation is what I’m most familiar with other than Heritage Mass. They use it at the Cathedral a lot. I admit I kind of like the Gloria and Sanctus but I can’t stand the Agnus Dei. They do not sing the Kyrie at the Cathedral.
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Yeah…not a big fan of the Agnus Dei from Mass of Creation either.
 
what’s the difference between the Heritage mass and the Mass of Creation? Where did all these different ones originate?
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
what’s the difference between the Heritage mass and the Mass of Creation? Where did all these different ones originate?
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Various people have set music to the parts of the mass. They are supposed to use the same text, although some take liberties with adding/changing the text. Ideally, there shouldn’t be any difference with the text for any setting of the mass. The only difference would be the actual music. I don’t know the reasons behind why Haugen, Alstott or any other composer chose the titles of their mass settings.
Inquiringperson said:
What are all the different types of settings for the mass?
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I can’t say as there are many people out there who set the mass text to their music. Depending on where you are, certain mass settings are more popular than others. It seems that the Mass of Creation tends to be the most known amongst American Catholics for some reason, even though most people I work with and have sung for actually don’t think much of the setting. I would say in the area where I freelance the Heritage Mass comes second, then Proulx’s “Community Mass” and the Danish Mass.
 
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