Liturgical Reform------ R. I. P.?

[mgy100]

The great thing about the Church is we have been through many struggles and we still exist. We are Christ’s church, founded by Jesus, he will lead us. The past 34 years give or take is small beans compared to the 2000+ years of our history. We’ve faced larger problems, many. We’ve always faced disagreement in doctrine (Nicene Creed in 325 ad that solved the differing opions on our basic belief), fall of the roman empire, 1054, the schism of eastern churches, the anti-popes, protestant reformation, I mean, these are just broad strokes and don’t even scrape the surface of what we have been through. We’ve been down before, Jesus has lead us through rough times before, things will get better. We need to work together. What I don’t understand is many Romans disagree and get into it with each other, and I’ve dealt with Eastern Rite churches that show the same respect as I give them and same reverence for our Church as we should as Romans united give our church. I mean, we are supposed to be together. We’ve weathered countless storms together. Perhaps the ultimate problem the church has always faced is maintaining the sacred basic believes that CAN NOT change according to any fad, popular belief at anytime, and being able to stand strong in the face of adversaries while maintaining control and being a beacon of unchanging and steadfast light.

 

[PreVatII]

Having read just about every document pertaining to the liturgy that has come down from Rome since Sacrosanctum concilium (1963), I still just shake my head and wonder when all this will end? Rome speaks and our bishops walk away.

My family and I thank God that we have the Traditional Latin Mass (Indult) available to us every single day.

 

[Digitonomy]

oat soda:

if you want to see some ugly renovations, check out this site from the archtect the diocese of rochester is using for their cathedral . here is his philosophy pretty lame stuff.

I find it hard to criticize a couple of the projects:

I rather like what he did with the main crucifix here.

And it looks like the main change, other than increasing the lighting, was to move the altar from off to the side to the center here.

 

[Agomemnon]

cestusdei:

I try to say Mass according to the GIRM. I look forward to a new and more accurate translation. Sure Trautman will fight. But he is outnumbered. Some bishops are VERY upset at how he was “elected”. They are making their feelings known. And they are the younger bishops who will eventually take over. The calvary is coming, slowly, but it is coming.

I think we’re all thankful for such priests that DO try and ay mass according to the GIRM. I’m just very upset right now. The abuse of girls serving continues - destroying the recruiting ground to the priesthood. Lay Distributors trotting all over the damn place.Tabernacle missing from the sanctuary .etc .etc.

And to top it off the heresy of Contraception has infected 99% of the liaty and clergy. Nothing will stand if this herery is not formally condemned and heretics excommunicated.

 

[Kielbasi]

Altar girls are now a necessity, for several reasons.

The first is that women today want to be involved whatever way they can be.

The second is there just aren’t enough boys willing to serve. The sex abuse scandals are certainly contributory to that, a lot of parents might not want their boys to serve if they don’t know the priest very, very well.

 

[katolik]

Kielbasi:

Altar girls are now a necessity, for several reasons.

The first is that women today want to be involved whatever way they can be.

The second is there just aren’t enough boys willing to serve. The sex abuse scandals are certainly contributory to that, a lot of parents might not want their boys to serve if they don’t know the priest very, very well.

Then get older men to serve. There are always solutions but people don’t want to hear them when they want to push their anti Church agenda[not you]

 

[JKirkLVNV]

katolik:

Then get older men to serve. QUOTE]

I’ve often wondered why we don’t do that. The little girls in our parish church are good and reverent, but they aren’t going to make priests. If the fathers of boys (I don’t have a child myself) served, then encouraged their sons to serve, then talked to them about the nobility and sacrifice of the priesthood, I bet we’d have a lot more vocations. I didn’t have a problem with girls at the altar until it was pointed out that countless vocations to the priesthood had started by serving at the altar as boys. Now, I wonder and think maybe we should perhaps make it more of a pre-possible vocation thing.

 

[Podo2004]

Iohannes:

I asked one of my priest if he could distribute Holy Communion during the Masses that he is not celebrating in order to reduce EMHC, and the response was that I was being narrow minded. The nearby parish has the policy: the more EMHC, the more merrier.

What i great sign, i’d like to be a EMHC one day, i mean the honor of giving His Body and Blood is so cool!
Podo

 

[Podo2004]

katolik:

Then get older men to serve. There are always solutions but people don’t want to hear them when they want to push their anti Church agenda[not you]

Tell me katolik what is so anti-catholic about altar-girls? It is good training i admit(i’m an altar server) but that doesn’t mean the girls are going to want to be priests…
Podo

 

[PreVatII]

Those who see no problem with girls as acolytes during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, miss the point by a mile! One has to understand the mind set of young boys to fully understand what makes a boy tick. When he sees girls in the sanctuary and when he sees female EMHCs, a young boy no longer sees the priesthood and all that surrounds it as something uniquely male. When he sees, year after year, the feminization of the Faith, he no longer sees a unique role for himself.

Does anyone think that a young man walking into a Marine Corps recruiting station would ever think of signing up if the recruiters were female? Not hardly.

I’ve always chuckle when I hear women try to explain how boys and men think. Good luck. You just won’t be able to do it.----If we are ever to regain our pre-Vatican II numbers to the priesthood, we need to return the sanctuary to the priest and to male acolytes only! (I would also add, end the reign of the EMHCs.)

 

[Podo2004]

PreVatII:

Those who see no problem with girls as acolytes during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, miss the point by a mile! One has to understand the mind set of young boys to fully understand what makes a boy tick. When he sees girls in the sanctuary and when he sees female EMHCs, a young boy no longer sees the priesthood and all that surrounds it as something uniquely male. When he sees, year after year, the feminization of the Faith, he no longer sees a unique role for himself.

Does anyone think that a young man walking into a Marine Corps recruiting station would ever think of signing up if the recruiters were female? Not hardly.

I’ve always chuckle when I hear women try to explain how boys and men think. Good luck. You just won’t be able to do it.----If we are ever to regain our pre-Vatican II numbers to the priesthood, we need to return the sanctuary to the priest and to male acolytes only! (I would also add, end the reign of the EMHCs.)

sad how stuck we are in the old(past) of pre-vatican 2, with no female servers… some of them do a better job than the males!
geez…
Podo

 

[Agomemnon]

Podo2004:

sad how stuck we are in the old(past) of pre-vatican 2, with no female servers… some of them do a better job than the males!
geez…
Podo

You encourage the abuse and then you use the results of that abuse as evidence for you to keep it.

I can even hear it in the background “Amchurch Amchuch RAH RAH RAH!”

 

[OrthoCath]

Altar Girls are Killing the priesthood. They should have NEVER been allowed.

 

[Deacon2006]

OrthoCath:

Altar Girls are Killing the priesthood. They should have NEVER been allowed.

Its not the girls that are killing the priesthood it is the parents who have only one or two children and then force their girls up to the altar. They view the priest as the little league coach who has to play their child for so many masses.

Orthodox parents have large families and want to see as many boys serve as possible. The parents might even discourage a daughter from wanting to serve the altar.

However don’t blame the girl for doing what the pope has permitted.

God Bless

 

[HagiaSophia]

PASCENDI:

When the USCCB elected Bishop Troutperson of Erie, PA to head up the liturgy committee, the bishops collectively thumbed their noses at Rome.

Ironically, it may be just the wake up call Rome needs to enforce documents like RS.

I hear that Clara has some “teeth” - I suspect that Bp Trautman has heard the same - and if he hasn’t changed his POV he may feel he has a “strategy” - I thin it’s going to be interesting indeed.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Iohannes:

I asked one of my priest if he could distribute Holy Communion during the Masses that he is not celebrating in order to reduce EMHC, and the response was that I was being narrow minded. The nearby parish has the policy: the more EMHC, the more merrier.

Then you send a letter to the ordinary and ask him why the rules aren’t being implemented. There is a process, more laity need to use it.

 

[HagiaSophia]

cestusdei:

I try to say Mass according to the GIRM. I look forward to a new and more accurate translation. Sure Trautman will fight. But he is outnumbered. Some bishops are VERY upset at how he was “elected”. They are making their feelings known. And they are the younger bishops who will eventually take over. The calvary is coming, slowly, but it is coming.

The really good news IMHO is that when the Ratzinger letter was “leaked” (God bless Sandro Magister) two bishops had the candor to say aloud it had been withheld from them as a body; I can only imagine what McCarrick and Gregory heard behind the scenes ( ) and for the first time in umpteen years the fissures in the “progressive” stranglehold on the NCCB began to show - many bishops did not take this kindly at all. Then we had the Trautman gerrymander and I expect we shall see a few more beginning to shake their staffs and pop on their miters saying, “Hey I’m a bishop too”. It couldn’t happen soon enough and to better group.

We’re going to have some bumps in the road but if the laity show support to the bishops who speak up and out the bishops will take courage from the support and began to act as individual shepherds rather than members of a private club under a gag order.

Now to clean out some of the staff up there who have begun to believe that its their job to run the bishops.

 

[PASCENDI]

Kielbasi:

The second is there just aren’t enough boys willing to serve. The sex abuse scandals are certainly contributory to that, a lot of parents might not want their boys to serve if they don’t know the priest very, very well.

Funny, one of the parishes I attend has 72 Altar BOYS. Five masses on the weekend

 

[Podo2004]

OrthoCath:

Altar Girls are Killing the priesthood. They should have NEVER been allowed.

(sigh) look what we have as catholics today… both can serve and if boys don’t want to serve then well… saying banning girls isn’t going to help anything… altar girls aren’t killing the priesthood it’s the fact that boys don’t want to serve unfortunely, but fortunely some boys like I still serve.
Podo

 

[Podo2004]

PASCENDI:

Funny, one of the parishes I attend has 72 Altar BOYS. Five masses on the weekend

Can I borrow some of the altar servers from that parish? I’m in need of altar servers, both female and male.
Podo