Liturgical Refugee Seeks Advice

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Daniel

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I live only two blocks from a rempantly liberal Catholic Church, but I can’t bring myself to attend mass there regularly. The mass is a sloppy agape entertainment complete with pop band and bongo drums. The priests refuse to wear their habit, even at Sunday mass. The parishioners wear hot-pants and halter tops to mass. They remain seated during the consecration of the Eucharist and idly chat through the mass. I’m shocked the liturgical abuse I’ve seen there.

Unable to cope, I have taken refuge in a traditional Catholic church (in full union with Rome) which has only the Tridentine Latin mass, but it’s in a parish 20 miles away. The church is pastored by priests of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. I love the beauty and reverence of the Latin mass, but I don’t know if I’m right to go to mass in a neighboring parish. Am I wrong not to attend and support the parish in which I reside? I welcome any comments or advice.
 
I support your choice 🙂 The FSSP is a good group and in communion with Rome. I attend an indult Mass myself.

It’s unfortunate that, that is the situation in your parish, and I see no reason why you have to be a witness to such an abuse every time you attend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

The long distance traveling is also something unfortunate (and I know of many who travel long, long distances just to attend the Traditional Mass) but I’m sure that this will add, in some way, to your realization and view of the Mass’ importance.

If you travel that long then that shows how important it is for you to worship God properly.

I’ll pray for your parish and you have my support. 👍 🙂

Miguel.
 
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Daniel:
Unable to cope, I have taken refuge in a traditional Catholic church (in full union with Rome) which has only the Tridentine Latin mass, but it’s in a parish 20 miles away. The church is pastored by priests of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. I love the beauty and reverence of the Latin mass, but I don’t know if I’m right to go to mass in a neighboring parish. Am I wrong not to attend and support the parish in which I reside? I welcome any comments or advice.
I think you made the right choice. What’s a mere 20 miles to avoid such things as you describe.

Pray for them. Sounds like they need it. But the next time you walk or drive by…toss some blessed salt on their grounds.Sounds like they need and exorcism. :eek:

God Bless,
Marie
 
Some folks apparently like it at the first church, and the more relaxed atmosphere.

If you personally don’t , you’re right to go to the next parish. If you’re in the United States and the next Catholic church is 20 miles away you must live in a rural area, so enjoy the 20 minute drive maybe listen to an appropriate CD on the way.
 
I believe it is important to recognize that the Mass of the Parish you have left is still valid, but, that said, I can’t see that God would condemn you for going to a place that more carefully worships Him. Jesus knew that we need help to follow him, and this is why he instituted the Church. It would make no sense for you to be required to attend a particular parish that you believe doesn’t strengthen you to follow Christ. I do think it is important not to “parish shop” as some Protestants “church shop” – trying to find the church, pastor, etc. that works for you. I think it’s better to stay in one’s own geographical community whenever possible. But it’s one thing to leave because of personality problems with a particular priest and another to leave a parish that dissents from Church rubrics.
 
Bravo to you, Daniel. Stick to your convictions and follow your heart. Your problem is becoming, unfortunately, more and more widespread in this culture. I believe we will all face more of these difficult situations with time. Pray for the parish that has fallen away and take heart in knowing that you are part of the Universal Church no matter what town you celebrate in. As far as I know, you have no obligation of loyalty to a parish just because they are located closer to your home. My husband and I have moved 2 times since we’ve been married, but have remained in the same parish ( even though we now reside in a different city). Relax and enjoy your time with the Lord. :gopray:
 
Daniel:

Catholics are under no obligation to attend the nearest parish. I don’t, even though my nearest parish (within walking distance) has liturgical abuses that are nowhere near as bad as the ones at your parish.

I too drive nearly 20 miles. There are several parishes closer to my home, and I tried them all as I looked for a church that celebrated Mass with fidelity to the rubrics and that offered a reverential and prayerful (able to be prayed in) atmosphere.
 
In a town I used to live in, I also fled the abuses for an orthodox reverent mass 10 miles away. I have never regretted it. I had spent too many years hearing the “Miracle of the Loaves and fish’s was really Jesus made them all share what they had.”

The final straw was when this priest threw a conniption fit one Sunday on the altar as part of his homily, about some Pro-Life pamphlets left in the church without his permission. The next Sunday he allowed his good friend the use of the church hall to campaign for election…on an Abortion ticket no less! :eek:

That’s just some of the abuses…they were disheartening and difficult but God lead me out of the desert to a wonderful parish and priest.I drove those 10 miles to and from with joy and gladness. I also learned to love and forgive the offending priest and pray for him and his like to this day.
 
Have you sent a letter to the priest - bishop - archbishop - papal nuncio?
 
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Fullsizesedan:
Some folks apparently like it at the first church, and the more relaxed atmosphere.

If you personally don’t , you’re right to go to the next parish. If you’re in the United States and the next Catholic church is 20 miles away you must live in a rural area, so enjoy the 20 minute drive maybe listen to an appropriate CD on the way.
It really makes no difference that “some folks apparently like it at the first church, and the more relaxed atmosphere.” If it’s liturgically abusive it needs to stop – the sooner the better.

Much of this behavior is a product of extremely poor (or non-existant) catechesis, and dubious priestly formations in some cases, so reform always needs to include prayer and education.

I certainly think this person is doing the right thing by making the effort to attend another parish for now.
 
Just because the 1st parish uses more modern music forms doesn’t meann that ALL parishes that use modern music forms are necessarily committing litugurical abuses. In my parish we have several Masses with organ and cantor, one (7:00 am Sundays) without music, one with a ‘folk’ style (in which I play guitar), the ‘adult’ choir (I guess I’m not an adult at 47) and then the teens who do get quite loud. We are quite orthodox in all of our Masses and the liturgical abuses mentioned do not go on in this parish.

One of the beauties of the Catholic Church is that the Church is big enough for many worship styles. 👍 One of the things that brough me back 23 years ago was the current ‘folk’ music. The Church (in the universal sense) is big enough for Latin Masses, ‘praise’ bands, 4-part choirs with organ and ‘quiet’ Masses.

Peace,
Jim B
 
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JimB:
Just because the 1st parish uses more modern music forms doesn’t meann that ALL parishes that use modern music forms are necessarily committing litugurical abuses. In my parish we have several Masses with organ and cantor, one (7:00 am Sundays) without music, one with a ‘folk’ style (in which I play guitar), the ‘adult’ choir (I guess I’m not an adult at 47) and then the teens who do get quite loud. We are quite orthodox in all of our Masses and the liturgical abuses mentioned do not go on in this parish.

One of the beauties of the Catholic Church is that the Church is big enough for many worship styles. 👍 One of the things that brough me back 23 years ago was the current ‘folk’ music. The Church (in the universal sense) is big enough for Latin Masses, ‘praise’ bands, 4-part choirs with organ and ‘quiet’ Masses.

Peace,
Jim B
I don’t think that anyone suggested that “modern musical forms” were necessarily abusive. They obviously aren’t.

I was pointing out that liturgical abuses are not acceptable in order to make someone feel more at home.
 
It really makes no difference that “some folks apparently like it at the first church, and the more relaxed atmosphere.” If it’s liturgically abusive it needs to stop – the sooner the better.

What’s abusive for 1 person is just copasetic for the next. The overall rules allow for some latitude, I don’t think chucking people out of the church because of failure to adhere to every jot and tittle in the liturgy is really in the spirit of the vatican council and Pope John.
 
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JimB:
Just because the 1st parish uses more modern music forms doesn’t meann that ALL parishes that use modern music forms are necessarily committing litugurical abuses. In my parish we have several Masses with organ and cantor, one (7:00 am Sundays) without music, one with a ‘folk’ style (in which I play guitar), the ‘adult’ choir (I guess I’m not an adult at 47) and then the teens who do get quite loud. We are quite orthodox in all of our Masses and the liturgical abuses mentioned do not go on in this parish.

One of the beauties of the Catholic Church is that the Church is big enough for many worship styles. 👍 One of the things that brough me back 23 years ago was the current ‘folk’ music. The Church (in the universal sense) is big enough for Latin Masses, ‘praise’ bands, 4-part choirs with organ and ‘quiet’ Masses.

Peace,
Jim B
Pope John XXIII and the members of the Second Vatican Council would turn over in their graves( and probably did) at the litugical stupidities committed in their name.
Catholics have the right to go to a Mass that follows the rubrics set down in the GIRM and other relevant Church documents.
 
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JimB:
Just because the 1st parish uses more modern music forms doesn’t meann that ALL parishes that use modern music forms are necessarily committing litugurical abuses. In my parish we have several Masses with organ and cantor, one (7:00 am Sundays) without music, one with a ‘folk’ style (in which I play guitar), the ‘adult’ choir (I guess I’m not an adult at 47) and then the teens who do get quite loud. We are quite orthodox in all of our Masses and the liturgical abuses mentioned do not go on in this parish.

One of the beauties of the Catholic Church is that the Church is big enough for many worship styles. 👍 One of the things that brough me back 23 years ago was the current ‘folk’ music. The Church (in the universal sense) is big enough for Latin Masses, ‘praise’ bands, 4-part choirs with organ and ‘quiet’ Masses.

Peace,
Jim B
It seems likely to me that someone who “returns” to the Church because he/she likes the music style has not a clue as to what it means to assist at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I freely admit that to go to Church for any non-sinful reason is better than not to go at all, but how can one get what one is supposed to get from assisting at the Sacrifice without some knowledge as to what it’s all about.

I’m an old fogey in my mid-70’s, but this craving for entertainment and variety escapes me completely. One of the most beautiful things I was taught (and remember vividly) was in the 4th grade, the nuns taught us how to use a missal. A remark I remember most of all was: "When you learn to use this missal properly, you may attend a Roman Catholic Mass anywhere in the world, know and follow all of the rubrics, and follow every word the priest says, except for the sermon. Today, my dioceses boasts of having Masses said in thirty-five languages, the rubrics are rarely the same from one priest to another, even in the same parish. That means everyone of different languages are forcibly separated under the vernacular system. You can’t even follow the Mass by observing the motions and positions of the priest. We are now all segregated into many different churches. It will go back someday, but I afraid not in my lifetime.

As an example, in the 1940’s I was an altar boy for eight years. An old German priest who had escaped from Germany moved in with his sister two blocks from my parish church. He applied to say Mass at our Church and was granted permission. I srved many of his Masses and never missed a beat because his position and gestures at the altar were exactly the same as those of our regular parish priests. Plus, the Latin he used was totally familiar and I responded without either of us being confused or lost. However, the pastor on Sundays read in English the announcements, the Epistle, the Gospel, and gave the sermon. The pastor and the German priest chatted often and long in the sacristy, all in Latin. That’s when the Church still acted as One and Universal.
 
I commend your travelling to a parish that shows some respect for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Do not fret over the 20 miles. My closest “Catholic” Church is 6 miles, and I never go there for the same reasons you mentioned. I now go 25 miles each way through city traffic, even though there are other closer churches, but with less reverence. A few years ago I travelled 65 miles each way for a 6 AM Sunday Tridentine Mass offered by a retired priest in a church made available to him before the “scheduled” Sunday services. This was his PRIVATE Mass where he just happened to leave the doors open. It was not illicit, because it was his private Mass and there was no notice or announcement. He was 85 years old and has since died. Our bishop absolutely will not allow St. Pius V Mass in his territory. I miss the reverence and awe and mystery of that Mass. I’m fully aware that the Novus Ordo is licit, but so is the Tridentine Mass, but it is forbidden by too many of the bishops in this country. God bless you.
 
Let’s Do Something Constructive!

For so many years I have been dismayed to read the posts of people who cannot find a church where the Mass is reverently said, and where true Catholic faith and morals are routinely taught in the homilies. In the past, the posts I read were to EWTN experts, but now the same thing is happening here. Since many of us have found such parishes ( several in my own area), would it not be sensible to post these parishes on line? Perhaps we are not allowed to do this in these forums, but surely, there is someway to spread the word. Just think what we could accomplish with a central location to which people from all over the country to refer!
 
Anna Elizabeth:
Since many of us have found such parishes ( several in my own area), would it not be sensible to post these parishes on line?
I’m not qualified to say whether or not a church is free from all, most, or some liturgical abuses, but it would be nice to have a thread for people to reflect on the Parishes in their areas that they enjoy, and where they could share what makes those Parishes special. This would be a positive way of highlighting Parishes without judging the ones that have not liturgically satisfied us.
 
Fullsizesedan said:
It really makes no difference that “some folks apparently like it at the first church, and the more relaxed atmosphere.” If it’s liturgically abusive it needs to stop – the sooner the better.

What’s abusive for 1 person is just copasetic for the next. The overall rules allow for some latitude, I don’t think chucking people out of the church because of failure to adhere to every jot and tittle in the liturgy is really in the spirit of the vatican council and Pope John.

The rubrics of the Mass do allow options, but what is an abuse and what is not an abuse is not up to the individual attending the Mass.

I’ll stand by my comment – “If it’s liturgically abusive it needs to stop – the sooner the better.”
 
It seems likely to me that someone who “returns” to the Church because he/she likes the music style has not a clue as to what it means to assist at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
George, the music style is just one of the things that brought me back to the Church. I was raised a Catholic, left at 18 (one of those college things), had a conversion experience at 21, came back at 25 basically because of the authority issue. I find it kind of insulting that you assume that because I like a certain worship style that I don’t understand what is happening in the sacrifice of the Mass.
 
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