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AlbMagno
Guest
Oh, I thought that the “And with your Spirit” wasn’t implemented and a faulty translation was in place. Sorry.
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angel12
Guest
No, that is part of this particular subset of the thread. Not “ad hominem” at all.
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ELCore
Guest
Eventually, it may occur to some folks that needing a new vernacular translation every few decades is a good argument for Latin.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Well I don’t know if that’s true. Cardinal Sean O’Malley the Archbishop of Boston, was born in 1944, before the baby boom generation.
Regardless, the Bishops serve the people of today, who are mostly Millenials and Gen Xers. If the new English Translation of the Mass is too abstract for them, then it’s the responsibility of the Bishops to help them by providing words in the Mass that are both Sacred and meaningful for the contemporary time their congregations live in.
Going back to the 16th Century mindset doesn’t serve the current generation, even us Baby Boomers who are blamed for everything happening in the Church today.
Jim
Regardless, the Bishops serve the people of today, who are mostly Millenials and Gen Xers. If the new English Translation of the Mass is too abstract for them, then it’s the responsibility of the Bishops to help them by providing words in the Mass that are both Sacred and meaningful for the contemporary time their congregations live in.
Going back to the 16th Century mindset doesn’t serve the current generation, even us Baby Boomers who are blamed for everything happening in the Church today.
Jim
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phil19034
Guest
I’m GenX, I don’t find the new translation to be too abstract. Never did, and it came out when I was still not a practicing Catholic.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Well, that’s you but you’re not the majority the Bishops are serving…
Jim
Jim
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OraLabora
Guest
Or a different “standard language”. There’s no reason it has to be Latin other than the fact that there already is so much material in Latin, it would be tough to implement a change. Some say Latin because it’s a dead language, but it isn’t completely dead yet, new words have been added.
The working language, the lingua franca, of the Vatican hasn’t been Latin in quite a while, it is Italian.
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tstadheim
Guest
I use this one, bought on eBay a few months ago:
www.worthpoint.com
I check myself using Divinumofficium.org occasionally. I prefer to pray with the book rather than using a computer because i am too easily distracted if using my computer.
TRADITIONAL LATIN/ENGLISH ROMAN BREVIARY LITURGY CATHOLIC 3 VOLUMES COLLEGEVILLE | #1788500228
[latin/english roman breviary]THE HOURS OF THE DIVINE OFFICEIN ENGLISH AND LATINA Bilingual Edition of the Roman Breviary text, together with introductory notes and rubrics in English onlyIn three vol
www.worthpoint.com
I check myself using Divinumofficium.org occasionally. I prefer to pray with the book rather than using a computer because i am too easily distracted if using my computer.
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Usige
Guest
Being GenX and having Millenial adult kids, I literally know only a handful of people that are peers of myself or my kids that have an issue with the revised translation. The most complaints I’ve heard are from people over 50.
Maybe it’s a regional thing, but none of the bishops in my area have any issue with the revised translation to the best of my knowledge. They also put a decent effort into trying to educate the faithful about what was changing and why.
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twf
Guest
The old translation was horrendous. Bland, banal, devoid of any poetry or feeling… have you ever compared the Collects between the two translations? Collects in the old translation basically were all different permutations of “Hey Big Guy up in the sky, you’re cool and we know you love us. Amen.” I exaggerate slightly.
If there are problems with the new translation, address them… but the old one was only a rough approximation of the Mass texts.
If there are problems with the new translation, address them… but the old one was only a rough approximation of the Mass texts.
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angel12
Guest
The old collects irk me so much that I’ve been using the app, rather than the books, to pray the LoH more and more often, simply because it has the new ones.
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OraLabora
Guest
I can’t say I entirely agree. I just got through translating our oblate newsletter for our Oblate Master, into English from French, and he included as a prayer the collect from the Friday of the Octave of Easter.
To set the baseline, here is the Latin version:
Here is the old translation:
The new:
The new is simply clunky English any way you cut it.
For the record the French version is:
I had to re-read the new version several times to try and figure it out. It really is a clunky translation. Nobody would ever speak that way. A literal translation is very often not the best translation for ease of understanding. The old translation is not great either, but the new is IMHO immeasurably worse. The French one is the best of the three.
Perhaps it’s a bad example, but I can understand why the new translation rankles many anglophones.
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Windmill
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I actually like the clunky sound of the newer translation. It reminds me of the Anglican Use (within the Roman Rite) parish I attended for 3 years. The style was definitely not street-talk.
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ELCore
Guest
If “clunky” is a synomym for “complex” or “makes you think about what’s being said,” then I guess “clunky” it is.
If the original American version had been even half-way decent, we wouldn’t have noticed the change so much.
And much of it was not just bad but simply wrong: as in the sample, “Omnípotens sempitérne Deus” = “Almighty ever-living God” ≠ “Eternal Father”. They left out the idea of God being almighty, and replaced “God” with “Father”. That’s not translating: that’s re-writing.
If the original American version had been even half-way decent, we wouldn’t have noticed the change so much.
And much of it was not just bad but simply wrong: as in the sample, “Omnípotens sempitérne Deus” = “Almighty ever-living God” ≠ “Eternal Father”. They left out the idea of God being almighty, and replaced “God” with “Father”. That’s not translating: that’s re-writing.
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