Liturgy of the Hours question

[TheMc]

So…let me get this straight…if I mess something up in going back and forth in the book (Christian prayers) then it’s wrong? I recite the morning prayers to my husband as we go to work…but it’s not always the easiest thing to follow…and no I don’t have a smart phone so it’s not that I can use an app…

jeez…you think you are doing something good…

No… no… just try your best. You’re ok.

I was mainly referring to when people add/remove/change things on purpose.

Just keep doing your best.

 

[Acolythus_sum]

So what about those of us who use the LOTH in Latin, as does the FSSP. The newer english translations are not very faithful to the Latin.

The FSSP uses the 1961 Breviarium Romanum, not the Liturgia Horarum. I much prefer the BrevRom, anyway…

 

[Batfink]

In addition to what others have said (i.e., don’t mess with the LOTH), I would just note that the hymn at the beginning is one of the parts of the Office which it is permitted to change. You don’t have to use the hymn printed on the Office of the day, nor indeed any of the hymns in the book, you may choose your own hymn provided it is a suitable sacred song.

Therefore, if you have a psalm-song that you really like, why not sing that as the opening hymn and say/chant the psalmody as it is printed?

 

[porthos11]

In addition to what others have said (i.e., don’t mess with the LOTH), I would just note that the hymn at the beginning is one of the parts of the Office which it is permitted to change. You don’t have to use the hymn printed on the Office of the day, nor indeed any of the hymns in the book, you may choose your own hymn provided it is a suitable sacred song.

Therefore, if you have a psalm-song that you really like, why not sing that as the opening hymn and say/chant the psalmody as it is printed?

The General Instruction says one may replace hymns with others approved by the Episcopal Conference while taking care not to introduce popular songs not in keeping with the dignity of the Liturgy.

I would therefore qualify this as yes, we may sing other hymns but from an approved source. Two that come to mind are the Liber Hymnarius (all Latin) or the Mundelein Psalter (English translations of the Latin hymns, as well as psalm tones; has a Concordat cum Originali from the USCCB Executive Director for liturgy, which, unless I’m understanding it wrong, means episcopal approval).

Further, I feel (just an opinion, I have no source) that the hymns, as stated in the General Instructions are the primary poetic element contributed by the Church. Given the header, I think the hymn should firstly be nonbiblical (that is, not based on Scripture). It’s for this reason I tend to replace the Lucien Deiss hymns (e.g. Sion Sing) where possible with some other nonbiblical hymn for the same season (as permitted by the General Instruction).

 

[Batfink]

I kind of agree with you, porthos, to an extent, and I see where you’re coming from with the non-biblical element. But I also think that the hymn acts as a gathering song uniting the community (obviously not when reciting alone, but we’re assuming that you would try to choose a song which would be appropriate for communal celebration, hence the load of posts above on the nature of LOTH) at the beginning of worship and therefore the same principles may be applied as would to an opening hymn at Mass.

My bishops’ conference have produced this document which offers guidelines for choosing music at Mass and they do particularly specify certain psalm settings as an option.

I’m not suggesting this is the only way to approach the hymn in LOTH, clearly a general ‘gathering’ song will often be less appropriate than one which is particularly tailored to the season. In this, I think the last two pages of the document I linked to above, where they offer suggestions for each Sunday to match up with the Mass readings, would be helpful.

All that was just to say, porthos, that I appreciate where you’re coming from and I think you’re right in your preferences, but I don’t think it would actually be wrong to use a suitable psalm as the hymn.

 

[porthos11]

I kind of agree with you, porthos, to an extent, and I see where you’re coming from with the non-biblical element. But I also think that the hymn acts as a gathering song uniting the community (obviously not when reciting alone, but we’re assuming that you would try to choose a song which would be appropriate for communal celebration, hence the load of posts above on the nature of LOTH) at the beginning of worship and therefore the same principles may be applied as would to an opening hymn at Mass.

My bishops’ conference have produced this document which offers guidelines for choosing music at Mass and they do particularly specify certain psalm settings as an option.

I’m not suggesting this is the only way to approach the hymn in LOTH, clearly a general ‘gathering’ song will often be less appropriate than one which is particularly tailored to the season. In this, I think the last two pages of the document I linked to above, where they offer suggestions for each Sunday to match up with the Mass readings, would be helpful.

All that was just to say, porthos, that I appreciate where you’re coming from and I think you’re right in your preferences, but I don’t think it would actually be wrong to use a suitable psalm as the hymn.

Your linked document is actually interesting because it brings up a good point and actually reminds us of the place of hymns in the Roman Rite. Hymns are actually not inherent to Mass, in either the Ordinary or Extraordinary Forms. As a matter of fact, opening, offertory, and Communion “songs” should preferably be the Propers with their Psalms if needed. The primary sources should be the Graduale Romanum or Graduale Simplex. Barring those, I’d probably use By Flowing Waters or the Anglican Use Gradual for vernacular use. The “suitable song” option is only the last. So actually, yes for Mass, the Psalm with its antiphon is actually preferred over a hymn. The same is true for the Offertory and Communion. It’s regrettable that these have fallen into disuse. The substitution option was never offered for the Extraordinary Form, so the Gradual psalms live on there.

However for the Office, the Hymn is integral; in fact this is the place in the Roman Rite that actually calls for (i.e. requires) a hymn (distinct from the Psalmody). This is why I’m much stricter with myself when it comes to the use of the texts of the Office, hymn included.

I’m also less convinced about the “gathering” aspect of the Office hymn as its function as true prayer. In the 1961 Office, the Lauds and Vespers hymns came after the Psalmody, well after the Office had begun. In the modern rite, I don’t doubt there is a “gathering” aspect to it given that it’s now near the head of the Hour, but (again, just an opinion), the hymn in the Office has its clear function, that of setting the tone and giving praise (which is why a Doxology is supposed to conclude it), while the hymns at Mass are only substitutes for what should be ideal (i.e. antiphons and Psalms from the Gradual). I would therefore not use the guidelines for music at Mass to guide music for the Office.

 

[TheMc]

Your linked document is actually interesting because it brings up a good point and actually reminds us of the place of hymns in the Roman Rite. Hymns are actually not inherent to Mass, in either the Ordinary or Extraordinary Forms. As a matter of fact, opening, offertory, and Communion “songs” should preferably be the Propers with their Psalms if needed. The primary sources should be the Graduale Romanum or Graduale Simplex. Barring those, I’d probably use By Flowing Waters or the Anglican Use Gradual for vernacular use. The “suitable song” option is only the last. So actually, yes for Mass, the Psalm with its antiphon is actually preferred over a hymn. The same is true for the Offertory and Communion. It’s regrettable that these have fallen into disuse. The substitution option was never offered for the Extraordinary Form, so the Gradual psalms live on there.

However for the Office, the Hymn is integral; in fact this is the place in the Roman Rite that actually calls for (i.e. requires) a hymn (distinct from the Psalmody). This is why I’m much stricter with myself when it comes to the use of the texts of the Office, hymn included.

I’m also less convinced about the “gathering” aspect of the Office hymn as its function as true prayer. In the 1961 Office, the Lauds and Vespers hymns came after the Psalmody, well after the Office had begun. In the modern rite, I don’t doubt there is a “gathering” aspect to it given that it’s now near the head of the Hour, but (again, just an opinion), the hymn in the Office has its clear function, that of setting the tone and giving praise (which is why a Doxology is supposed to conclude it), while the hymns at Mass are only substitutes for what should be ideal (i.e. antiphons and Psalms from the Gradual). I would therefore not use the guidelines for music at Mass to guide music for the Office.

You explained that very well.

 

[Batfink]

I agree with T’Mc, you explained very well; I’m convinced and stand corrected.