Liturgy of the Hours

[corsair]

I started, sometime ago reciting the Little Office of the BVM, 1904 version with Latin on one side and English on the other side of the page. Prior to that I tried the more modern English version of Christian prayer but I don’t care for the modern language. It takes a while but after a few weeks the old style English began to flow smoothly. Now I use the 1904 version exclusively.

 

[dennis_regan]

So, SHORTER CHRISTIAN PRAYER is certainly more user friendly than the other book.

One thing I’m unsure about. There is Morning prayer, which is fine.
Then there is both Evening Prayer and Night Prayer.
Is Night Prayer what used to be known as Compline?

 

[OraLabora]

So, SHORTER CHRISTIAN PRAYER is certainly more user friendly than the other book.

One thing I’m unsure about. There is Morning prayer, which is fine.
Then there is both Evening Prayer and Night Prayer.
Is Night Prayer what used to be known as Compline?

Yes.

It is still known as Compline, especially in monasteries.

 

[porthos11]

So, SHORTER CHRISTIAN PRAYER is certainly more user friendly than the other book.

One thing I’m unsure about. There is Morning prayer, which is fine.
Then there is both Evening Prayer and Night Prayer.
Is Night Prayer what used to be known as Compline?

The older names remain valid. Morning Prayer is still Lauds, Evening Prayer is still Vespers. And yes, Night Prayer is still Compline.

Note the key difference though from your older book: the older book offered Prime as its morning prayer, but Lauds is the preferred hinge office.

 

[dennis_regan]

Thanks.
I have a further question.
Sorry, but I’m new to the Office.
In SHORTER CHRISTIAN PRAYER, there is no Evening Prayer or Night Prayer for Saturday??

 

[spina1953]

Thanks.
I have a further question.
Sorry, but I’m new to the Office.
In SHORTER CHRISTIAN PRAYER, there is no Evening Prayer or Night Prayer for Saturday??

Hi Dennis Regan: I do not about the shorter Christian Prayed book as I use the "The Christian Prayer 1 volume which has all the prayers even for Saturday. hope that helps.

 

[dennis_regan]

Hi,
There is only Morning Prayer for Saturday.

For all other days of the week, there is Morning, Evening and Night Prayer.

I’m wondering, is SUNDAY EVENING PRAYER I and SUNDAY NIGHT PRAYER I, for Saturday evening and night, as there is also SUNDAY EVENING PRAYER II and NIGHT PRAYER II?

 

[O_Sapientia]

If you wish to devotionally recite the traditional Divine Office according to the 1962 rubrics, you’ll find all the English translations are a far cry from modern biblical translations. However I’ve found the Monastic Diurnal published by Saint Michael’s Abbey to be a wonderfully readable translation. The English has a way of flowing nicely.

If you want a modern translaton, then I’ll echo the suggestions of others, that the Ordinary Form’s Divine Office would probably adequately satisfy your sensibilities.

For one thing, Prime was abolished by the Second Vatican Council itself, and Compline is Night Prayer. They are not really the key or “hinge” hours as defined by the Church, which are Lauds and Vespers (Morning and Evening Prayer).

Traditionalists would like like this opinion, but even when praying the traditional office, we still do so with the mind of the Church, and Vatican II is part of the mind of the Church. The Church’s thought is that the Office revolves around Lauds and Vespers.

Note the key difference though from your older book: the older book offered Prime as its morning prayer, but Lauds is the preferred hinge office.

Prime was only suppressed for the Roman cathedral office. It was not suppressed for any of the other Latin offices. And if you wish to pray the traditional office, then you pray Prime. To pray the 1962 Prime is not to disregard the mind of the Church as expressed by the Council, unless you wish to state that Summorum Pontificum and the Instruction Universae Ecclesiae fails to express the mind of the Church.

I think you’re also failing to note that the Council was primarily concerned with the public recitation of the office. In public Lauds and Vespers are certainly “hinge” offices and they should be celebrated in every parish (regardless of Rite and usage). But I believe that the fathers of the Council really neglected to take into account the laity and their private recitation. In the Liturgical Movement leading up to the Council, especially spearheaded by the Benedictine confraternities of liturgical prayer, Prime was what the laity most took to. It’s much easier and is the perfect morning office. Lauds is not a morning office, it’s the dawn office where we sing the praises of God at sunrise. Those are two very distinct things. Prime works much better for the layman and I think that it’s been tried and tested by countless people who have found it so. But then again, Lauds in the Ordinary Form is a lot easier than it used to be, so it may be more accessible now. I still think that the office of Prime is more suited, by its prayers, for lay people in the world that aren’t assisting at public celebrations of Lauds and Vespers. Furthermore, then-Pope Benedict XVI placed Compline on equal prominence with Lauds and Vespers.

The Church has expressed itself in the Council, and we as Catholics need to listen to that Council and work with it. However the Council has not put this issue beyond all examination. The call for the laity to participate in the Divine Office is a great initiative. I would say a necessary initiative if we wish to restore Christian society. But the call is by no means perfectly realised yet. The mind of the Church is not a fixed affair on this issue. We work with it, we learn from it, we all grow from trial and experience.

Personally, the sooner they restore Prime, the better.

In Jesus and Mary,
OS.

 

[spina1953]

Hi,
There is only Morning Prayer for Saturday.

For all other days of the week, there is Morning, Evening and Night Prayer.

I’m wondering, is SUNDAY EVENING PRAYER I and SUNDAY NIGHT PRAYER I, for Saturday evening and night, as there is also SUNDAY EVENING PRAYER II and NIGHT PRAYER II?

Hi Dennis Regan: In my Christian Prayer 1 volume It has all the hours for all the days. That is morning, mid-morning, noon, mid afternoon, evening, and night prayer and use the guide so that I know which ones to pray On Saturday it ha every prayer except the night prayer which has its separate place.

 

[dennis_regan]

OK, thanks.
Can anyone else clear this up?

 

[Magdalen2013]

There is no Saturday Evening Prayer.

Sunday Evening/Night Prayer 1 is said on Saturday evening (the Vigil of Sunday) and Sunday Evening/Night Prayer 2 is said on Sunday evening.

Note that you will also do Evening Prayer 1 on the eve of Solemnities/Feasts as well.

 

[dennis_regan]

Wonderful. That’s helped enormously.
Thanks so much.


When and why was Saturday Evening Prayer changed like this?

 

[spina1953]

There is no Saturday Evening Prayer.

Sunday Evening/Night Prayer 1 is said on Saturday evening (the Vigil of Sunday) and Sunday Evening/Night Prayer 2 is said on Sunday evening.

Note that you will also do Evening Prayer 1 on the eve of Solemnities/Feasts as well.

Hi Magdalen: Thanks I forgot but you are correct my mistake. again thanks.

 

[porthos11]

Wonderful. That’s helped enormously.
Thanks so much.


When and why was Saturday Evening Prayer changed like this?

This is a throwback to the Jewish observance of a new day beginning at sundown. Sundays and Solemnities always have Evening Prayer I which is said the evening before. Evening Prayer II is said on the evening of the day itself.

Certain feasts also have Evening Prayer I, but they are only Feasts of the Lord, and only if they fall on a Sunday.

It is also a way of highlighting the importance and solemnity of the day when its observance begins the night before.

It also gives you a better idea as to why we can fulfill the Sunday obligation on Saturday evening because technically, the Sunday observance begins with Evening Prayer I.

 

[dennis_regan]

This is a throwback to the Jewish observance of a new day beginning at sundown. Sundays and Solemnities always have Evening Prayer I which is said the evening before. Evening Prayer II is said on the evening of the day itself.

Certain feasts also have Evening Prayer I, but they are only Feasts of the Lord, and only if they fall on a Sunday.

It is also a way of highlighting the importance and solemnity of the day when its observance begins the night before.

It also gives you a better idea as to why we can fulfill the Sunday obligation on Saturday evening because technically, the Sunday observance begins with Evening Prayer I.

Thanks. That is enlightening.
In the OFFICIUM DIVINUM, to which I originally referred, however, there is a separate Saturday Compline.
Was the actual terminology (ie, from Saturday Evening Prayer to Sunday Evening Prayer I) changed in Vatican II?

 

[porthos11]

Thanks. That is enlightening.
In the OFFICIUM DIVINUM, to which I originally referred, however, there is a separate Saturday Compline.
Was the actual terminology (ie, from Saturday Evening Prayer to Sunday Evening Prayer I) changed in Vatican II?

It’s still called Saturday Compline in some editions, but that’s not really a dogmatic thing. It was just more clearly named “After Evening Prayer I on Sundays and Solemnities” because it isn’t strictly limited to Saturdays. One would also pray that Compline after Evening Prayer I on a Solemnity even if it wasn’t a Saturday, using the alternate closing prayer.

 

[OraLabora]

Prime was only suppressed for the Roman cathedral office. It was not suppressed for any of the other Latin offices.

From Sacrosanctum Concilium:

d) The hour of Prime is to be suppressed.

It has been suppressed, for the Liturgy of the Hours. Of course Summorum Pontificum has allowed the 1960 Breviary to be used; initially when the LOTH was proclaimed, the old breviary was only to be allowed for the use of elderly clergy for whom learning a new breviary was an obstacle:

For those however who, because of advanced age or for special reasons, experience serious difficulties in observing this new Order, it is lawful to continue to use the former Roman Breviary, in whole or in part, with the consent of their Ordinary, but only when reciting the Office alone.

(Paul VI decree on the LOTH of the Hours “Laudis Canticum”)

In the post-Vatican II Monastic Offices, only schema A, the traditional Benedictine psalter, allows for the retention of Prime ad libitum (the other schemas make no allowance for Prime). Most monasteries have abolished it, and have redistributed the psalms of Prime to other hours. It makes practical sense: monastic Matins is very long (12 psalms and two long readings, plus a third nocturne on Sundays, feasts and solemnities), followed by Lauds then Prime. Monasteries have instead elected to allow more time between Matins and Lauds to allow for private lectio divina.

Indeed Lauds traditionally is the dawn office; normally it followed very shortly after Matins (the Rule of Saint Benedict states a short interval between the two to allow for taking care of “natural needs”, i.e. a bathroom break…). In early monastic times, the monastic day was very elastic and followed the sun, so that Matins had to be shortened in summer to ensure Lauds still occurred at daybreak. Now the practice is fix the time of the offices according to the clock regardless of season, and Lauds has evolved to take the hinge place in the morning, crowding out Prime. A longer gap between Matins and Lauds is now where most abbeys allow time for private lectio, and after Lauds, usually the monks begin their daily work, pausing for Mass and the other offices; since there are no longer choir monks and lay brothers to do the physical work (all monks having the same rank), all monks are bound to choir, and all monks participate in the daily work of the abbey (which was the original intent of St. Benedict).

It made sense to allow the old breviary to return to fuller use when SP allowed wider use of the EF Mass; the liturgical year and calendars are of course a better fit, and of course Prime is part of that Office, and remains part of the monastic breviary for those communities using the EF Mass, and those using the OF who have chosen to retain Prime.

 

[O_Sapientia]

From Sacrosanctum Concilium:

It has been suppressed, for the Liturgy of the Hours. Of course Summorum Pontificum has allowed the 1960 Breviary to be used; initially when the LOTH was proclaimed, the old breviary was only to be allowed for the use of elderly clergy for whom learning a new breviary was an obstacle:

(Paul VI decree on the LOTH of the Hours “Laudis Canticum”)

Yes, it has been suppressed for the Roman cathedral office. That suppression of Prime applied solely to the Roman Office. It was not extended to the uses of the religious orders. The other uses maintained Prime, and only abandoned it when they completely abandoned their own liturgical patrimony and adopted the Roman Liturgy of the Hours. Sacroscantum Concilium was not legislating for the non-Roman liturgical offices. And the pre-SP/UE permissions are neither here nor there in the discussion. The permission to celebrate the traditional liturgy says to use the norms in force in 1962. Which means, blessed be God, Prime.

In the post-Vatican II Monastic Offices, only schema A, the traditional Benedictine psalter, allows for the retention of Prime ad libitum (the other schemas make no allowance for Prime). Most monasteries have abolished it, and have redistributed the psalms of Prime to other hours. It makes practical sense: monastic Matins is very long (12 psalms and two long readings, plus a third nocturne on Sundays, feasts and solemnities), followed by Lauds then Prime. Monasteries have instead elected to allow more time between Matins and Lauds to allow for private lectio divina.

I don’t think there’s any defense for the Benedictine communities that have abandoned Prime in the alternative liturgical structures. I think it completely flies in the face of the Benedictine tradition. Benedictine monks electing to forego liturgical prayer for a private devotional meditation? Blessed Columba Marmion’s eye-brows would have climed up his skull at the dreaded thought! I am aware that Monastic Matins is long, but the majority of communities do not sing it unless it’s a special feast.

And quite frankly, why would a Benedictine bemoan long hours at liturgical prayer? “Nothing is to be prefered to the Work of God.” Really, this is what Benedictines are all about. Singing the praises of God. If you don’t want to devote your entire life to this exercise, if you want the Opus Dei to not figure so prominently in your spiritual life, I question why on earth you’d want to be a Benedictine. But, blessed be God in Heaven, each monastery and congregation is independent. It’s one of the great strengths of the Benedictine tradition. But quite honestly I can’t take a monk seriously that bewails singing 12 Psalms when their forefathers would sing 150 in a day.

Indeed Lauds traditionally is the dawn office; normally it followed very shortly after Matins (the Rule of Saint Benedict states a short interval between the two to allow for taking care of “natural needs”, i.e. a bathroom break…). In early monastic times, the monastic day was very elastic and followed the sun, so that Matins had to be shortened in summer to ensure Lauds still occurred at daybreak. Now the practice is fix the time of the offices according to the clock regardless of season, and Lauds has evolved to take the hinge place in the morning, crowding out Prime. A longer gap between Matins and Lauds is now where most abbeys allow time for private lectio, and after Lauds, usually the monks begin their daily work, pausing for Mass and the other offices; since there are no longer choir monks and lay brothers to do the physical work (all monks having the same rank), all monks are bound to choir, and all monks participate in the daily work of the abbey (which was the original intent of St. Benedict).

To be honest, the fixed-position of the Hours according to the modern clock is in my view an advance. But even then, you could still reasonably celebrate Lauds at sunrise. I have before. And I don’t think for a moment at all that Lauds has edged Prime out due to the changes in the daily schedule. Lauds, even if not said at Sunrise, is still particularly focussed on praising God. Hence the name. But Prime, although praising God, is also the Office that the monks would say before going to work. This was the office that prepared you for the day, imploring the angels and saints to assist you, singing God’s praise, etc. Eminently suited to the layperson and the working man. Not to mention, even with the martyrology, it’s still got nothing on Lauds.

In Jesus and Mary,
OS.

 

[OraLabora]

Not entirely true. Schemas A,B,c and D are definitely not the Roman LOTH. Schema A allows Prime ad libitum. The others do not. Schema B is the entire psalter in one week. Saint Benedict allowed abbeys to devise their own psalter schema provided the psalter was said in one week. The Thesaurus Liturgia Monasticae requires a minimum 2 week distribution of psalms; the Roman LOTH is allowed in certain circumstances: travel, external apostolates, etc.

The abbey I’m associated with uses schema B on a one week cycle and a two-year lectionary. Lauds and Vespers are in Latin Gregorian chant. Lectio Divina is required of the monks; they have some freedom on when to accomplish it, but typically it’s between Matins and Lauds.

 

[dennis_regan]

Just by way of follow up, I’ve been using SHORTER CHRISTIAN PRAYER for a couple months or so now and it’s just the job.

Thanks to all of you for your help and (name removed by moderator)ut.