Livable wage/ one working parent

[Hunbleandlost16]

I was wondering if you call could give me some ideas of what you consider to be a livable wage (salary) What are some of yours? Especially those of you who have one parent staying at home? Also how many kids to you support with your salary? I would like to get a rough idea of my salary requirements for my future. I am really thinking about going into teaching but the salary worries me.

 

[Allegra]

I’m a teacher and I don’t think it pays a wage that can support a family with a stay-at-home parent unless they live very frugally and probably the teacher takes a second job.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I was wondering if you call could give me some ideas of what you consider to be a livable wage (salary) What are some of yours? Especially those of you who have one parent staying at home? Also how many kids to you support with your salary? I would like to get a rough idea of my salary requirements for my future. I am really thinking about going into teaching but the salary worries me.

It depends on what you mean by “livable wage” In the Third world that might be 10 dollars a month. In the US it might be a substantial amount. We have 4 kids, my wife is the breadwinner. 6 figures. And like the Notorious B.I.G said. “mo money, mo problems.”
Is it tight some months. Sure, we hardly live like the rich and famous but we are more comfortable than most. I have good friends with 4 kids, and they only have one working parent who earns 30 a year. They seem to do fine. A lot depends on where you live and what you consider livable. There are a lot of extras that some consider necessities.

 

[bitterhope]

My husband is the only one working in our family. He brings in quite a bit under $40,000 and we are having our 9th baby soon. We make it work without debt or assistance, but you need to be willing to make lots of sacrifices. We don’t have cable, we run our cars until they die, we repair instead of replace, hand-me-downs for the kids, cook in three times a day instead of buying lunch/dinner out, brew our own coffee, garden to supplement food budget, and generally just make do with what we’ve got. We also never seem to have enough savings to account for anything, but we always make it through hard times somehow. Not everyone is willing to make it work, but it is possible. Occasionally I babysit or sew/crochet for a little extra money, and sometimes I work a “real” job if we just need some more money at the moment, but I haven’t had to do that in several years now.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

We both work (he at 40hrs a week and me at 17 a week) and make about $45000 gross. We live in a very affordable area and have really embraced the minimalist approach to things recently lol!

 

[Sunbreak]

Well, it depends on where you live. A livable wage in one state wouldn’t even come close in another. One way to look at it is to use the standard that landlords use to be able to rent a place - you need 3x the income of whatever the rent is. So, in my area, the average apartment rent for just 1 bedroom is $800 x 3 = $2400 per month needed. If you rent a house, the average rental cost here is $1200 x 3 - $3600 per month.

 

[Deus_tecum]

It depends on what you mean by “livable wage” In the Third world that might be 10 dollars a month. In the US it might be a substantial amount. We have 4 kids, my wife is the breadwinner. 6 figures. And like the Notorious B.I.G said. “mo money, mo problems.”
Is it tight some months. Sure, we hardly live like the rich and famous but we are more comfortable than most. I have good friends with 4 kids, and they only have one working parent who earns 30 a year. They seem to do fine. A lot depends on where you live and what you consider livable. There are a lot of extras that some consider necessities.

6 figures is over $100,000 a year. The budget is “tight” sometimes? For real?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

6 figures is over $100,000 a year. The budget is “tight” sometimes? For real?

Yup. And we live in a pretty livable state.
It is what it is. We could live on 25k a year or 250k a year.

 

[Hunbleandlost16]

Thanks for the replies! I live in the midwest and I am hoping for about 4 kids but it could be more than that God willing. Any opinions on a good salary range with those factors in mind?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Thanks for the replies! I live in the midwest and I am hoping for about 4 kids but it could be more than that God willing. Any opinions on a good salary range with those factors in mind?

We live in the Midwest. Though we are from the west. Looking to move back someday. The Midwest is VERY livable on lower wages.
We have 4 kids ages 8-1 and we home school.
Families at our parish are probably somewhere in the 40-50 range. Though that is just a guess. It is a college town and an industrial town.
One thing good about the midwest is that there are generally larger families here and more acceptance of them. So it is easier to have a larger family. Many people are “blue collar” so you have larger families and lower wages than the coasts.

The midwest is hard for me to understand because it really is different than what I grew up with. There is not much materialism out here. But there is not much drive either…

Just an observation, and of course it is a blanket statement and does not cover everyone’s attitude here.

 

[St_Francis]

Thanks for the replies! I live in the midwest and I am hoping for about 4 kids but it could be more than that God willing. Any opinions on a good salary range with those factors in mind?

What you might do is look at teacher salaries in different places and the cost of living in those places. Don’t just look at beginning salaries, consider how they go up, whether different types of teachers make more money (high school, ESL, AIG, etc).

Look at places you’d like to live and also places you hear are good.

Also remember that teachers have summers off and can often make some extra money then by teaching summer school, working at a summer camp, or just getting a summer job.

You might also look into the demographics of the areas as well. Are the school systems growing or contracting? More people are moving to warmer places as retired grandparents move south, for example.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I am really thinking about going into teaching but the salary worries me.

You know, my mother was a teacher for 30+ years. She made very decent money and has her retirement, and medical all taken care of. Not only that but teaching enabled her to spend a lot of time with her children. My sister is a teacher in west coast city, she makes about 75 and it is her 3rd year teaching. Teachers here don’t make nearly that much, but they don’t really have to. Depending on your financial situation to get your degree I would suggest a Masters if you can. Some states require it and some don’t. But you will be on a higher pay scale if you have one. My mom considers herself wealthy. She is, but part of that is because my dad left her some money when he died. But she would have been ok even if he did not.
Even though we homeschool, I would suggest teaching. It really is a good job, it is steady. We will always need teachers and it is employable everywhere. You can move anywhere you need to and still have a job. Plus… SUMMERS! Holidays, weeklong breaks, and recess! What other job offers that?

 

[Xantippe]

With regard to struggling on six figures, I think the tricky thing is that raising a family requires pretty much all available resources, no matter how many resources you have. So, up to a very high income level, there’s always going to be something you can’t afford to give your kids–a lesson or camp not done, a trip not taken, etc. There are almost always going to be choices and tradeoffs. And that applies to time as well as money–there will have to be prioritization of needs. If one child needs speech therapy for the spring, another may not be able to do a sport, and so forth.

More practically, I would very much suggest not letting yourself be well below the median income in your area. As long as you are median income, life is generally OK, but if you’re living on $40k in an area where the median is $80k, you’re going to be suffering. In that case, it’s important to either move or make more. Also, housing costs have to be watched carefully. If housing costs are anything near 50% of income, it’s going to be painful. Try to keep housing to 25% of income or lower. The lower you keep your housing costs as a percentage of income, the easier your life will be.

Also, the better your financial situation is when you get married and start a family, the less income you’ll need going forward. If, for instance, you had no debt and were able to pay off a house before having children, your income needs would be dramatically lower. And having a paid off house is actually not a ridiculous goal to have if you are a 20-something living in a low-cost area. It can take a long time to find the right person, but if you use your time wisely, it won’t be wasted.

I suggest reading the following books:

The Millionaire Next Door (it’s about how moderate income people like teachers are quite capable of zealously saving and actually outpacing higher earners)

Total Money Makeover (that’s Dave Ramsey’s book that teaches the Baby Steps)

daveramsey.com/new/baby-steps/

Elizabeth Warren’s All Your Worth budget (50% fixed expenses, 30% wants, 20% savings and debt reduction) is a great target. I would personally find it a headache with our complicated family expenses (we have somewhere between 30 and 40 categories), but I think the 50/30/20 plan could work very well for a lower income person or a younger person.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

With regard to struggling on six figures, I think the tricky thing is that raising a family requires pretty much all available resources, no matter how many resources you have. So, up to a very high income level, there’s always going to be something you can’t afford to give your kids–a lesson or camp not done, a trip not taken, etc. There are almost always going to be choices and tradeoffs. And that applies to time as well as money–there will have to be prioritization of needs. If one child needs speech therapy for the spring, another may not be able to do a sport, and so forth.

More practically, I would very much suggest not letting yourself be well below the median income in your area. As long as you are median income, life is generally OK, but if you’re living on $40k in an area where the median is $80k, you’re going to be suffering. In that case, it’s important to either move or make more. Also, housing costs have to be watched carefully. If housing costs are anything near 50% of income, it’s going to be painful. Try to keep housing to 25% of income or lower. The lower you keep your housing costs as a percentage of income, the easier your life will be.

Also, the better your financial situation is when you get married and start a family, the less income you’ll need going forward. If, for instance, you had no debt and were able to pay off a house before having children, your income needs would be dramatically lower. And having a paid off house is actually not a ridiculous goal to have if you are a 20-something living in a low-cost area. It can take a long time to find the right person, but if you use your time wisely, it won’t be wasted.

I suggest reading the following books:

The Millionaire Next Door (it’s about how moderate income people like teachers are quite capable of zealously saving and actually outpacing higher earners)

Total Money Makeover (that’s Dave Ramsey’s book that teaches the Baby Steps)

daveramsey.com/new/baby-steps/

Elizabeth Warren’s All Your Worth budget (50% fixed expenses, 30% wants, 20% savings and debt reduction) is a great target. I would personally find it a headache with our complicated family expenses (we have somewhere between 30 and 40 categories), but I think the 50/30/20 plan could work very well for a lower income person or a younger person.

While I fundamentally disagree with Dave Ramsey’s rigidity. One cannot argue with the results and lives he has helped.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

6 figures is over $100,000 a year. The budget is “tight” sometimes? For real?

Yup. It depends where you live. For example, take downstate NY. The median home price is approximately $480,000. Average real estate taxes on top of the mortgage are well in excess of $10,000 per year (and can be a lot more). Have a few children, add state income taxes, MTA taxes, relatively high health care costs, high car insurance, high utility bills, etc. and before you know it 75% of you money is gone. Then you have to pay for your food.

 

[bitterhope]

I’ll be honest, I find it so difficult to hear about people struggling on so much money, but I have noticed that the middle class–particularly the upper middle class–struggles the most. We move every two years, and have lived in several countries as well as several states, and the most likely to have financial difficulties, marriage troubles, and depression are the middle class here in the US. Our family’s income has climbed significantly in the last two years but we remain below the line of poverty. I’m pretty sure we always will. It’s so hard to wrap my head around all of this. I’ve seen families fall apart over money problems when there really is no reason all their needs and most of their wants should be completely covered with money to spare for savings. I’m not at all envious of the income because it seems to cause more trouble than it is worth for families. My siblings have suffered from the same financial troubles I’ve seen so many others in the middle-upper middle class go through. Everyone is always trying to keep up with the rich on a fraction of the income. In previous generations parents realized that was impossible, but somehow the lines have become blurred it seems. I knew no one growing up whose mom went to the spa, or ever got a manicure/pedicure, or had new shoes for each outfit, or bought coffee instead of brewed it, etc. I knew no one whose dad bought lunch out everyday, or played golf each week, or went to a bar every weekend, etc. I knew no one that expected their parents to pay for their sports teams, or buy them the latest technology, or expected college to be covered for them. As kids we knew that we would need to find the way to do that ourselves, and we babysat or delivered papers or mowed lawns, etc. It was no heartache for kids to be told no, it was an opportunity to work that no into a yes. My parents raised 11 kids into adulthood on a very modest income. My dad was very clear on the fact that kids are only as expensive as we allow them to be. Many things people consider necessary are far from necessary. Don’t fall into the trap of relieving kids “deserve” every comfort, or that mom and dad do either.

 

[PaulinVA]

Yup. It depends where you live. For example, take downstate NY. The median home price is approximately $480,000. Average real estate taxes on top of the mortgage are well in excess of $10,000 per year (and can be a lot more). Have a few children, add state income taxes, MTA taxes, relatively high health care costs, high car insurance, high utility bills, etc. and before you know it 75% of you money is gone. Then you have to pay for your food.

In many ways, costs follow incomes. In Northern VA, there are a lot of government/military retirees who are working at good paying jobs, the spouses work, so they in effect have three incomes. Try competing with that! Everything is very expensive because many people can afford it.

54% of the households in my county make over $100,000. Teachers have it rough here.

 

[signit]

You know, my mother was a teacher for 30+ years. She made very decent money and has her retirement, and medical all taken care of. Not only that but teaching enabled her to spend a lot of time with her children. My sister is a teacher in west coast city, she makes about 75 and it is her 3rd year teaching. Teachers here don’t make nearly that much, but they don’t really have to. Depending on your financial situation to get your degree I would suggest a Masters if you can. Some states require it and some don’t. But you will be on a higher pay scale if you have one. My mom considers herself wealthy. She is, but part of that is because my dad left her some money when he died. But she would have been ok even if he did not.
Even though we homeschool, I would suggest teaching. It really is a good job, it is steady. We will always need teachers and it is employable everywhere. You can move anywhere you need to and still have a job. Plus… SUMMERS! Holidays, weeklong breaks, and recess! What other job offers that?

Good post.

I came from a family where some of the adults in the extended family were teachers, and they seemed to do pretty well.

They weren’t one-percenters but they seemed to be maintain decent lifestyles and weren’t poor by any means.

And my aunt is a retired teacher who, with her savings and pension, doesn’t even need Social Security (never bothered to apply for it).

 

[Kelfa28]

Hubby and I are both unemployed now and reaching the end of his benefits this week. We do have food stamps to help but the two of us are relying on 2 weeks here and there through our military season days to pay bills. We have two kids. It’s rough and we’ve had to make loads of sacrifices. No cable, one car that’s on its last leg, one cell phone hubby and I share, no dental insurance and we pack lunches and make dinner at home every night.
We use our wood burning stove in the winter… I cloth diaper, nurse my babies and make my own baby food.

We’re relying on his GI bill so I can finish up school. Hubby just finished his associates. I’m praying one of us can find something to increase our earnings. It’s rough where we live because there just aren’t many jobs if you don’t have a degree.

I think we made about $25,000 this past year for a family of four. We get some help with groceries but it’s a struggle to pay bills. We just make sure the mortgage is paid for every month and make due with what is left over. The thing is, we are smart with our money and still have emergency savings we put together when we were working. It’s for dire emergencies like a broken car or medical emergency.

It’s seriously tough reading other posters claim they make 6 figures and still struggle. Based on my experience now I couldn’t imagine pulling in that kind of money and ever struggling financially. I’d be greatful to find a job that pays 40k at this point.

 

[Xantippe]

PaulinVA said:

“In many ways, costs follow incomes. In Northern VA, there are a lot of government/military retirees who are working at good paying jobs, the spouses work, so they in effect have three incomes. Try competing with that! Everything is very expensive because many people can afford it.”

Right.

And if you don’t have anything like one of those incomes, it’s not really worth trying to keep up. Our family bailed on the DC metro area after attempting (very unsuccessfully) to live on what would be a middle class income anywhere else. Initially, we were paying right around 50% of income on housing costs, and at the time, I had no idea what a no-no that is.

bitterhope said:

“Everyone is always trying to keep up with the rich on a fraction of the income.”

That’s part of it.

A related issue is that in higher-cost parts of the US people are desperately outbidding each other to keep themselves and their kids out of “bad” neighborhoods and “bad” schools. (Elizabeth Warren talks about this in “The Two Income Trap.”) Having househunted in rough neighborhoods around DC trying to find something under $400k, I understand the problem, but our solution was not to play. (You would not believe how many nearly $475k-495k houses in rough neighborhoods I looked at before we gave up–that was right before the housing bubble blew.)

There’s a tremendous difference between a “good” school and a “bad” school. (I’m putting good and bad in quotation marks because a lot of research suggests that the difference isn’t the school itself, but the predominant population of the school.) My sister, for instance, bailed on our home town school where there are a lot of drugs and neglect and kids had to be taught about stuff like floor and salt and a teacher thought my little nephew couldn’t possibly be reading Harry Potter. Nephew is now going to a school now where the kids are the kids of Boeing and Microsoft people and moms bring kids sushi lunches. A lot of the stuff the “good school” parents indulge in are frills, but it’s hard to say where the frills stop and the good parenting begins.

“In previous generations parents realized that was impossible, but somehow the lines have become blurred it seems.”

I think a lot of parents are aware that there aren’t a lot of good “middle” jobs right now, so they feel like they have to push harder.

“I knew no one growing up whose mom went to the spa, or ever got a manicure/pedicure, or had new shoes for each outfit, or bought coffee instead of brewed it, etc. I knew no one whose dad bought lunch out everyday, or played golf each week, or went to a bar every weekend, etc.”

Elaborate manicures are actually kind of a lower-middle class and a Black thing, or at least they used to be. My impression from my time in Los Angeles 20 years ago was that even African-American women who weren’t rich would have elaborate nails.

I don’t know that anybody actually does all that stuff on your list today, but they may feel that everybody else is. To this day, living in college community, I don’t know anyone who goes to the spa, does manicures or pedicures, has new shoes for each outfit (although I’d have to be VERY snoopy to check that one), and no dads who play golf at all. I suspect I know somebody who goes to a bar every weekend (at least), but he’s an empty nester and a wee bit of an alcoholic. My husband does buy lunch out a fair amount of the time, but if he does it at the cafeteria it’s $4 for all-you-can-eat. On $4 coffees, I plead guilty as charged.

“I knew no one that expected their parents to pay for their sports teams, or buy them the latest technology, or expected college to be covered for them.”

True enough, although I think I knew a fair number of kids who expected their parents to do their best with college, which is a reasonable expectation (and what FAFSA expects, as a matter of fact).