Live 8

[adstrinity]

Thank you very much for that article/column, Lisa N. I, for one, didn’t know that Africa’s poverty level has actually gone down. Good stuff, that.

 

[Ddot]

Switching back, it upset me ]that Green Day (a Canadian Band) sung their song, “Don’t Want To Be An American Idiot” … Granted, free speech & all (and, for all I know, they could have most likely been at the Toronto concert), but, wow, drumming up support against the United States when we have done the most to help out ALL other countries AND, in such a short time of our existance. THIS REALLY upset me.

Green Day is an American band, not a Canadian one.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Without question the issue at hand is poverty in Africa, but overlooked by well meaning rockers is that as long as tyrannical governments control the distribution of funds those targeted for relief never get it. Starvation is indeed a problem in many parts of Africa, most especially in the Sudan. But in this nation emergency food relief sent by the U.S. and others is used as a weapon to subjugate designated enemies of the government. This has been a pattern observed earlier in Somalia, Ethiopia and Eritrea.

That is exactly the point I’ve been making. Our attempts to aid Africa have not only NOT succeeded in making life better for the average African, they have contributed to making it worse.

 

[adstrinity]

Ddot:

Switching back, it upset me ]that Green Day (a Canadian Band) sung their song, “Don’t Want To Be An American Idiot” … Granted, free speech & all (and, for all I know, they could have most likely been at the Toronto concert), but, wow, drumming up support against the United States when we have done the most to help out ALL other countries AND, in such a short time of our existance. THIS REALLY upset me.

Green Day is an American band, not a Canadian one.

So they are!!! Northern California, no less. Thank you for the correction.

 

[ShroudMan]

As a Patriotic & Proud American, I LOVE Green Day and I totally identify with their song American Idiot… its like a National Anthem that is screaming WAKE UP AMERICA …I dont care what Country they come from…but I believe it IS America… I dont view the song as an attack on America, but the majority of the people who have been hypnotized within her. Many people may not be from this Country but look to her for the ideal she attains to.

 

[vern_humphrey]

ShroudMan:

As a Patriotic & Proud American, I LOVE Green Day and I totally identify with their song American Idiot… its like a National Anthem that is screaming WAKE UP AMERICA …I dont care what Country they come from…but I believe it IS America… I dont view the song as an attack on America, but the majority of the people who have been hypnotized within her. Many people may not be from this Country but look to her for the ideal she attains to.

The lyrics, straight from Green Day’s website:

Don’t want to be an American idiot.
Don’t want a nation under the new media
Hey, can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mindf*ck America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn’t meant to be ok.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We’re not the ones meant to follow.
For that’s enough to argue.

Well maybe I am the faggot America.
I’m not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the popaganda.
And take a look at the age of paranoia.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn’t meant to be ok.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We’re not the ones meant to follow.
For that’s enough to argue.

Don’t want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It’s calling out to idiot America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation
Everything isn’t meant to be ok.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We’re not the ones meant to follow.
For that’s enough to argue.

 

[anjel13]

I don’t think greenday is calling America an idiot country as a whole. I think he’s more speaking to certain people or a certain group/type of people in america. He’s also saying that a lot of people in America are controlled by the media. I agree with the fact that the media is very messed up and they only put out what they want us to know. There are a lot of people in America that are completly brainwashed by this corrupt media that edits and reports everything in a way to sway people into believing what they want us to believe. It’s like some people just believe every little thing that they see or hear on TV or read in the magazine. Also a lot of people have a hard time differentiating between the oppinion shows on news channels rather than the actual news. (If that makes any sense?) I’m sure that Greenday is from the more liberal group and they probably don’t like president Bush so the “redneck agenda” thing, I think is pointing at him. Not sure, just a guess. Anyways, that’s just my take on the song.

 

[milimac]

Don’t want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It’s calling out to idiot America.

I have to agree with Green Day. The media is a liberal machine that through its news programs and entertainment attempt to serve up a hedonistic, utilitarian, atheistic, relativistic ideology. I would be more tactful than to call those who buy into it “idiots” though. It’s difficult to call people idiots when they’re blasted with that stuff 24x7 throughout their lives through TV programs, movies, radio, cd’s, and even those pretending to offer “balanced” news programming or even “educational” programming.

Maybe that’s not what Green Day meant, but the words fit.

 

[vern_humphrey]

anjel13:

I don’t think greenday is calling America an idiot country as a whole.

Just those who have a different political outlook – which is the majority. He calls them “idiots” and refers to “subliminal mindf*ck America.”

 

[adstrinity]

vern humphrey:

Just those who have a different political outlook – which is the majority. He calls them “idiots” and refers to “subliminal mindf*ck America.”

Yes, I concur. I’m sure if I did MORE research on the song, & the band in general (my conservative friends REALLY do not like them…they must know something I don’t know)…I’m sure I would find out HOW it is anti-American. I know, I saw, as the tele was on mute, that the lead singer was singing/saying, “Don’t blame America”. I got from it a tongue in cheek type way, not a command from the band. It is VERY disrespectful and in poor taste to choose this as a song to sing to the world when America is about to meet up with the other countries AND, when we have tried to help Africa (and the entire rest of the world) the most.

 

[vern_humphrey]

adstrinity:

Yes, I concur. I’m sure if I did MORE research on the song, & the band in general (my conservative friends REALLY do not like them…they must know something I don’t know)…I’m sure I would find out HOW it is anti-American. I know, I saw, as the tele was on mute, that the lead singer was singing/saying, “Don’t blame America”. I got from it a tongue in cheek type way, not a command from the band. It is VERY disrespectful and in poor taste to choose this as a song to sing to the world when America is about to meet up with the other countries AND, when we have tried to help Africa (and the entire rest of the world) the most.

Not long after the election of '04 there was a protest march in San Francisco. On national television, one of the protestors was carrying a sign that said, “F*CK MIDDLE AMERICA.”

Not a good way to convert people to his way of thinking!

This song seems cut our of the same cloth.

Given that Live 8 advertises they want our support, why would they feature a song like this?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

adstrinity:

when we have tried to help Africa (and the entire rest of the world) the most.

Rwanda?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

adstrinity:

It upsets me that this is not mentioned. Switching back, it upset me ***GREATLY ***that Green Day (a Canadian Band) sung their song, “Don’t Want To Be An American Idiot” …

I agree. Some very ignorant things were said in Barrie. The two hosts should have been canned as soon as they started quipping about SARS. Ben Mulroney should have got the host spot. He at least knows how to be polite. The booing of Celine Dion was just plain bad manners. The whole angle seemed to have been how ‘Canadian’ the event had been. How ignorant. The event was not supposed to be about national sentiments. It was supposed to be about justice for Africa.

When all is said and done, it doesn’t matter who gave the most aid. It matters which proposed solution is the one which will work. Africa is resource-rich. There is no justification for the death rate there.

 

[Celia]

ShroudMan:

As a Patriotic & Proud American, I LOVE Green Day and I totally identify with their song American Idiot… its like a National Anthem that is screaming WAKE UP AMERICA …I dont care what Country they come from…but I believe it IS America… I dont view the song as an attack on America, but the majority of the people who have been hypnotized within her. Many people may not be from this Country but look to her for the ideal she attains to.

Green Day is one of my favorite bands. And, this is how I kind of view this song as well. It took me awhile to figure it out, but if you listen to it, it helps too, to see what they are saying. Anybody hear ‘Holiday?’ I like that one too.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

adstrinity:

I apologise for not seeing the first thread.

YES, I AGREE!!! SOMETHING ~DOES~ NEED TO BE DONE!!! We need to take out the governments IN Africa who are opressing these people!!! DOUBLING THE AID TO AFRICA WILL NOT DO ANYTHING BUT THROW OUR MONEY AWAY IF IT DOESN’T EVEN GET TO THE PEOPLE!!!

No, but, the point is, if they are trying to drum up support by playing the numbers game, the abortion stats in America easily outnumbers the impoverished dying over there. Why are we so concerned about people not living over there when we have a better chance here to help people? Like I said, those people cannot be helped if their government doesn’t LET them be helped. …Same over here.

The Culture of Life is an integrated vision of the Catholic Church. Comparing death from abortion to death from poverty is unproductive. We have been fighting a reactive war. This has not worked. We need a creative, proactive, integrated strategy which begins in every parish in North America. Nothing less will suffice.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Lisa N:

What happened to the money raised by the LAST such concert?

The concert was not about raising money. It was about raising consciousness and acknowledging our responsibilities to each other as human beings. It is about relationship. This is much more encouraging that throwing money at the problem.
Lisa N:

The problem with all of these well intentioned efforts is that there is so much corruption in the governments that the funds don’t get to the needy people, nor do they go to create infrastructure to help the people help themselves. The columnist summed it up as poor people from rich countries giving to rich people in poor countries.

Yes.
Lisa N:

I think this effort is certainly going to help and certainly the focus should be on Africa. But we have to attack the problem first and the problem is the “leadership” in many African countries. Obviously no defender of Apartheid but frankly the black leaders put in charge have made things much worse.Lisa N

Yes. There is much corruption and systemic inequalities which need to be addressed. Any suggestions?

 

[Jennifer123]

Christus Rex:

Two things to say:

1. My thread is not a dupe because this one merely attacks it, mine asks simply for opinions and feelings on it.
2. Comparing the USA’s abortion rates to Africa’s poverty is disgusting, quite frankly. American who had abortions have chosen to have them. Not one of those people in Africa have chosen EXTREME poverty.

Michael

I understand your empathy and compassion but I think a little perspective is needed, especially when discussing things like Live 8.

The bible says that the poor will always be with us. That doesn’t mean that there’s nothing that can be done, but we have to remember that poverty will never be fully eradicated. To promise that if only we could work together it will be finished completely is man’s folly.

One must also remember that our interconnectedness includes abortion, and I’d say most of our ills in society, including Africa’s problems, can be related to the evil of abortion. Yes, maybe in the US (and the other western nations) abortion is a choice for women. But the UN and other organizations advocate abortion for third world nations as a way to “combat” poverty. They prey on the “ignorance” (uneducated) of these women and families to get abortions and sterilizations. I’ve heard, but haven’t seen evidence, that some of these abortions and sterilizations are sometimes done without much consent.

That will never work, will only bring more misery, and can never be supported by a Catholic or a Christian.

Money thrown at problems rarely works, the Africans need justice. They need to be freed and need to free themselves from tyranny.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Jennifer123:

The bible says that the poor will always be with us.

Jennifer123:

And what Jesus meant is that there should be no quid pro quo between giving the proper honour to him (the expensive oils as a precursor to his death and burial) and feeding the poor. One cannot cherrypick the Gospel of Life. What Jesus said is that the poor must be fed. He himself fed the poor before he taught on the Real Presence.

Jennifer123:

That doesn’t mean that there’s nothing that can be done, but we have to remember that poverty will never be fully eradicated.

Poverty may be eradicated. But brokenness may not.

Jennifer123:

One must also remember that our interconnectedness includes abortion, and I’d say most of our ills in society, including Africa’s problems, can be related to the evil of abortion.

Yes, in North America we are experiencing the flip side of brokenness. Africa is dying. North America is dying. We are both dying.

Jennifer123:

Money thrown at problems rarely works, the Africans need justice. They need to be freed and need to free themselves from tyranny.

True. And this is the work of conversion. We can no longer give half measure to the work of salvation.

 

[Jennifer123]

I never said poverty shouldn’t be helped, and indeed Jesus said all those things about helping the poor. He was very explicit about the responsibilities the wealthy have towards the poor. But again I say, it will never, ever be eradicated. I have a problem with the claim that it can.

Poverty, as with priviledge, is neither inherently good or evil. It’s how it is used - is it used for the greater glory of God or for selfishness? While prosperity is evil if it receives excess importance, it is wrongfully gained, or selfishly squandered, poverty also is evil if it is the result of a lack of responsibility or diligence.

I say that a lot of Africa’s problems can be seen as a lack of responsibility by the nations’ leaders. Until that is rectified I’m afraid nothing is going to change :twocents: .

 

[milimac]

**Code: ZE05070305

****Date: 2005-07-03

****Pope Asks G-8 Nations to Ease Scourge of Poverty

****Sends Message to “Make Poverty History” Rally

**VATICAN CITY, JULY 3, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI appealed to the Group of Eight nations to work toward debt reduction and the development of Africa at their upcoming summit.

The leaders of the seven most industrialized countries and Russia will be meet this week in the G-8 summit in Gleneagles, Scotland.

“I wish for the total success of this important meeting, hoping that it will lead to sharing with solidarity the expenses of debt reduction, to implementing concrete measures to eradicate poverty and to promoting the genuine development of Africa,” the Pope said after praying the midday Angelus today with the crowds gathered in St. Peter’s Square.

On Saturday, the Holy Father sent a message to the participants of the Make Poverty History rally in Edinburgh in preparation for the summit.

The message was sent on behalf of the Pope by Cardinal Angelo Sodano, Vatican secretary of state, to the archbishop of Saint Andrews and Edinburgh, Cardinal Keith Patrick O’Brien.

225,000 join appeal

The message stated: “Greetings to all who are gathered for this event, united by their concern for the welfare of millions of our brothers and sisters afflicted by extreme poverty. As the Second Vatican Council teaches, ‘God intended the earth and all it contains for the use of everyone and of all peoples; so that the good things of creation should be available equally to all’ (“Gaudium et Spes,” 69).”

About 225,000 people, all dressed in white, joined the appeal for solidarity, which wended its way through the streets of Edinburgh. Among the participants were Cardinal O’Brien, and Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, archbishop of Westminster.

“For this reason, people from the world’s richest countries should be prepared to accept the burden of debt reduction for heavily indebted poor countries, and should urge their leaders to fulfill the pledges made to reduce world poverty, especially in Africa, by the year 2015,” stated the message from the Vatican.

“His Holiness prays for the participants in the rally and for the world leaders soon to gather at Gleneagles, that they may all play their part in ensuring a more just distribution of the world’s goods,” added the message. “In the ardent hope that the scourge of global poverty may one day be consigned to history, he cordially imparts his Apostolic Blessing.”