Living together before the Sacrament of Marriage

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:angel1:I see a trend in the general population: So many engaged couples setting up house before the Wedding. I attended a wedding where several young singles from out of town took hotel rooms together. There were many children attending, and as they had fun visiting rooms to say hi to their relatives, I worried about the example shown them. None of the parents had any problem with this at all, and none of the young singles were even engaged! A few months later, we received one wedding “save the date” card. They have now been living together for five years prior to their wedding a year from now. They are each from a Catholic background. Should anyone have said something to all these single couples at that original wedding, and if so, what? If not, is there anything to be done to gently steer young people away from this trend? Sadly, many are either not attending Mass or if they are, seem not to worry. I pray that we can reach them, compassionately, and will continue to pray about this. Ideas welcome!
Kathryn Ann:harp::signofcross::gopray::angel1:
 
It is sad that these days living together before marriage seems to be the generally expected norm in society. Most people it seems try living together first, thinking that it is a necessary step in deciding if they are compatible for marriage. Before I was married I even had a catholic tell me that I should not marry anyone until I had lived with them first.

I do think that we owe it to our family and friends who may be considering living together with a partner before marriage to lovingly share our beliefs about the value of waiting until marriage to live together, etc. It takes a lot of tact and sensitivity to boldly discuss this I am sure.

I think that priests need to talk about these issues more in their homilies. Couples participating in the pre-marriage courses with a priest would likely be asked about their living situation. In that case, I think the priest would counsel them about what is expected and encourage them to live apart for a period of time before the wedding.
 
Bearontherun said:
I think that priests need to talk about these issues more in their homilies. Couples participating in the pre-marriage courses with a priest would likely be asked about their living situation. In that case, I think the priest would counsel them about what is expected and encourage them to live apart for a period of time before the wedding.
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So, disclosure. I lived with my husband before we were married. No one - and I mean no one - in the Church asked us about this, ever. The priest who did our marriage preparation, the classes we took, etc. I am not even sure now that it was mentioned in our classes just as a generality (you know, you shouldn’t do this.) It was mentioned that couples should wait to have sex, but nothing was mentioned regarding living together (and I definitely got the impression in our class that we were far from the only couple in the room of about 30 couples who was already living together.)

I wish it had been brought up. I was terrified it would be during our marriage prep - I would have had to say yes, which would have been hard* because I knew I shouldn’t have been doing it* even if I couldn’t admit it to myself at the time. I wish it was discussed more in general - not just condemnation of the behavior but an explanation of why waiting is needed and what benefits it has for marriage. I thought it was “no big deal” and truthfully, there are things that came up that probably wouldn’t have otherwise. We love each other, but there are struggles in our marriage that directly relate to our behavior before marriage.
 
It’s hard to talk about. I wouldn’t say something unless it was someone I was very close to. I was one of the few in my family and friends who did not cohabit before marriage. People thought I was so weird. They would look at me confused and say, “You don’t live together…why?” like they couldn’t fathom that there were people who didn’t do that.

In RCIA there was a guy who was engaged to a Catholic girl and they were living together. I honestly don’t think anyone said anything to them about it in the marriage class because he openly talked about it at one RCIA class. This RCIA class was about marriage and discussion shifted to the pre-cana classes Catholics take before marriage. He was talking about how taking them helped him and how “we always say our “sorrys” to each other and say a prayer together before bed now, etc.” so I don’t think anyone had admonished them or told them to live apart or anything since he was talking about it like it was totally fine and normal.
 
The concept of “alternative lifestyles” developed in the late 1960s. Because of a small group of radicals, some people decided to trust them instead of their parents. The big mistakes were partly the fault of Hippies who openly said, “I don’t need no piece of paper to live with my old lady.” Of course parents asked their sons and daughters about their significant others: “If you love each other then why not just get married? It’s the right thing to do.” But the message young people were getting was “Don’t trust anybody over 30!” Which would have included mom, dad, priests and nuns. Having sex outside of marriage was called “performing natural acts.” I was there. I heard this first-hand.

The Sexual Revolution also occurred during this time period and some of the same people called it Freedom. Remember, it was about sex, not love. And in the 1970s, Adult Bookstores opened everywhere and what was meant to be private was made public.

In the 1960s, there was dating, which might lead to going steady, which might lead to courtship, which might lead to engagement and marriage. Both families knew who their son and daughter were dating. And if the young man was serious about marrying somebody’s daughter, he was expected to sit down with her father. Her father had been his age once too. He knew what it was like. The father would ask, respectfully, “So, how do you plan on supporting my daughter?”

Then the radical feminists came along and said, Men are going to use and abuse you. Get a job, because if you don’t, he’ll dump you, leave you with the baby and you’ll have no job skills. How many single unwed mothers today are having their babies raised by an aunt or even a grandmother? This type of class warfare where women were the victims and men were the eternal enemy, also encouraged women to forget about having a family altogether and to get careeers instead.

Yes, it’s not talked about enough but that’s beginning to change.

ignatius.com/Products/EM-H/extreme-makeover.aspx

Peace,
Ed
 
Our Archdiocese teaches a class on Morals and Ethics for all catechists who teach the faith. The presenter gave us a list of sins and we were to rate the sinfulness of each action, with 10 being the most sinful and 1 being the least sinful. Living together before marriage was on the list. Well, you can imagine my surprise when several of the catechists and the table said, “what is this doing on the list? It isn’t even a sin. What is wrong with two consenting adults having sex with each other?” Here is the kicker–the “catechists” at are table who were saying this were all over sixty! :mad:

So do you think these “catechists” are ever going to bring this subject up in religion class? And I live in a diocese where our Archbishop was the chairman for Marriage and Family Life for the USCCB.
 
I suggest you contact your Archbishop about this violation of Church teaching.

Peace,
Ed
 
You are presuming that all couples who live together prior to marriage are engaging in sexual relations. (Yes, they may well be but unless you were in their bedroom while they were “doing it” you should not pass judgement because you don’t know it to be an absolute fact.) Also, I never saw sleeping together outside of marriage was necessarily a sin; it’s what you do when you are supposed to be sleeping that is a sin, but I digress…

I knew of one couple - a very devout couple - who set up housekeeping together 6 months before their wedding. This was done for practical reasons; the lease on her apartment ran out and she did not want to sign up for another year since she would be moving out in six months. So she moved in with her soon-to-be husband.

They slept in separate beds in separate rooms until after the wedding. Neither set of parents had a problem with the arrangement and even their priest said it was OK provided they “behaved themselves”.

I guess it depends on the individual situation. 🤷
 
Lost_Sheep said:
You are presuming that all couples who live together prior to marriage are engaging in sexual relations. (Yes, they may well be but unless you were in their bedroom while they were “doing it” you should not pass judgement because you don’t know it to be an absolute fact.) Also, I never saw sleeping together outside of marriage was necessarily a sin; it’s what you do when you are supposed to be sleeping that is a sin, but I digress…

I knew of one couple - a very devout couple - who set up housekeeping together 6 months before their wedding. This was done for practical reasons; the lease on her apartment ran out and she did not want to sign up for another year since she would be moving out in six months. So she moved in with her soon-to-be husband.

They slept in separate beds in separate rooms until after the wedding. Neither set of parents had a problem with the arrangement and even their priest said it was OK provided they “behaved themselves”.

I guess it depends on the individual situation. 🤷
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This is true, we should always assume the positive. I have personally never known a couple that lived together before marriage and did not have sex, but as you say they do exist. I think it is very rare.
 
edwest2 said:
I suggest you contact your Archbishop about this violation of Church teaching.

Peace,
Ed
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Really?

I don’t mean to sound snarky, but if the Archbishop was troubled with every person living in a sinful situation, he’d have little time to do anything else.
 
Newbie2 said:
Really?

I don’t mean to sound snarky, but if the Archbishop was troubled with every person living in a sinful situation, he’d have little time to do anything else.
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I think edwest was referring more to the catechists teaching contrary to Church teaching (that sexual relations before marriage aren’t sinful) than about those who aren’t following Church teaching.

I could be wrong, but since his post is directly under the one about the errant Catechists, I think that’s what he was suggesting contacting the Archbishop about.

This is why it’s good to use the quote feature 🙂
 
anp1215 said:
I think edwest was referring more to the catechists teaching contrary to Church teaching (that sexual relations before marriage aren’t sinful) than about those who aren’t following Church teaching.

I could be wrong, but since his post is directly under the one about the errant Catechists, I think that’s what he was suggesting contacting the Archbishop about.

This is why it’s good to use the quote feature 🙂
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😊

My bad.

If so, good post Ed. 👍
 
My husband and I were married for 10 years. I filed for annullment so that we can have a sacrament wedding. While we are waiting for the final date of the annullment we are to/have to live as brother and sister. At first it was difficult to understand but as I became serious learning about my faith. By learning more and more about Catholic faith getting married and being with a man is serious. Two become One. I believe that’s why our world is chaotic. If the bride and the groom to be does not fully understand the sacredness of being together. How will they be able to even tell or teach it to their family. Since I know now what I don’t know then, I spread the word and started it with my family and to spread the word that someone like me might get it…for those who has ears to hear, eyes to see, and mouth to spread the word that it is a sin living together before the Sacramento of Marriage. Either you’re in or out.
God bless.
 
I always wondered why there seemed to be two commandments having to do with adultery.
.In the middle ages, the 6th Commandment was translated as “adultery” At the time, the word meant any sexual activity before marriage.Now the word means unfaithfulness by married persons. “Adultery” is covered by the 9th Commandment.
But, the original Latin for the 6th Commandment was “non fornica”. No fornication. Fornication is the sin of sexual relations between unmarried persons. Therefore, couples having sex before marriage are committing the sin of fornication. Also, the sexual act is the reproductive act, and obviously intended to be used only by married people.
 
**

God loves us so much, that we are given Commandments, not “suggestions.”

We also read the following in 1 Thessalonians 5:22:highprayer:

“Abstain from all appearance of evil”

We don’t have to “judge” to see what is clearly before us: Society has made things very plain, when dozens of families gather at weddings or holiday events, and parents take one room, while their college -aged sons and daughters who are boy and girl friends take separate hotel rooms together (with no mention of an engagement even in sight, let alone a wedding date set)- we know that we are not talking about people living as brother and sister for a very brief time due to financial hardship. We are not judging here, as there is no need to: We are assaulted on every side in our modern society by blatant disregard of morals and the loving Commandments God gave us for our own good. :getholy:

Rare cases are not the discussion here, but the general trend of people setting up housekeeping for months or years with no wedding date in mind.

With venereal diseases rampant, children being born out of wedlock followed often by parents splitting apart before they even contemplate the sanctity of marriage, what is created? Certainly not the loving bond of marriage and family that God intended, a bond that creates lifelong compassion, where each partner’s entire future is sacred and children’s safety and security are upheld.

Sadly, people observe high divorce rates and feel overwhelmed. I am very sorry when parents and society fail to show enough examples of long -term, loving marriages to encourage young people to emulate them.

But where-ever we fail or succeed, God’s Commandments are still there, not to catch us in sin but to save us from the pain of disobedience.

Ideals exist, but if we fail, God is so loving and so should we be, by a loving but firm attitude. Where-ever there are single mothers living in transitional shelters struggling with abandonment, loving Christians are there to visit and advise, to give gifts and smooth the way.

Where-ever young people seem to go astray, we must be a loving but firm presence in their lives, someone they might just come to with their heart- felt questions and fears. If they know that we have, ourselves, not lived perfect lives and are not judging them, they might want to learn more from our experiences. Love is the answer. I am sure we all feel great compassion for young people making their way in the world. Turning our heads away from some behaviors, “winking” at misconduct too many times is not loving, and sends the wrong message, as if we do not care about actions that might harm them.

It’s sad to see that society in general has lost that sense of the sacred. Often, by this disregard of morality, some seem to label those they shock as judgemental or sadly out of touch. There is nothing to judge when something is shoved in your face. But Love is there to guide us, and Love’s commandments are from a Father who created His children to trust Him. **
:signofcross::harp::signofcross:
 
I have been doing a lot of reading and thinking on this topic recently. My 28yo niece (and goddaughter) is now living with her fiance with wedding set for August 2012. Although I’ve not been in her “orbit of consciousness” for many years, I decided I’d venture back with a letter to tell her of a better way to prepare for marriage.

Here is the most of the letter:
Dear E,

28 years ago I accepted the solemn responsibility of becoming your godmother. I have prayed for you through these years, not recognizing any other particular ways I might have been a help to you. But now, as you are preparing for marriage, I want to offer you something that I wish I had received at your age, particularly before I married.

. . .
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When I got the note from your dad announcing your engagement, which gave me great joy to read, I saw something that also gives me great concern, which is your living with B before you are married. A friend of mine in graduate school recently completed a literature review of studies about the effects of pre-marital sex for engaged couples regarding the long term effects on marital satisfaction and success. The conclusion is that it does have a decidedly negative effect, the reason being that sexual intimacy is just one of the intimacies needed for a good marriage and, equally important, are spiritual and emotional intimacy. A happy marriage requires intimacy in all areas to be strong. But it is the nature of sexual intimacy to take center stage, especially when you are young and, if begun prematurely, that is, before the spiritual and emotional intimacies are solid, it prevents the couple from developing in these other critical areas.

I’m aware you haven’t asked for my advice and I’ve not really been in your conscious orbit for many years. I just wish I had this information before I was married (not at all sure I would have paid attention, I admit), so all I can do is pass it on now to those whom I love. How I would love to spare you, and my own children, the regrets and consequences I have now to bear because of choosing wrongly in this matter!

. . .

Aunt H told me you and B have already closed on your house and are preparing to move in soon. Perhaps by the time you read this, you have already moved into your house. E, it is not too late to take time to prepare for a marriage that will be satisfying to both of you, a marriage that will be a continual source of strength, joy and happiness the rest of your lives together.

Please consider letting B live in your house alone until your marriage. You can certainly go live with your dad if nothing else. I know he would be overjoyed to have these last months together with you, and would so be delighted to know you are making such a wise and wonderful choice for the sake of your marriage.

Marriage is the hardest thing you will ever undertake in your life, and you have nearly a year to prepare for your wedding day. That is a long time and I pray you will invest it wisely, to use a term your dad is very familiar with. It will require a great deal of courage and strength on your and B’s part to live apart chastely until you are married, but I guarantee the dividends will be great and you will never regret this choice, where you may, as many couples do, as I do, deeply regret the time lost before your marriage, time that can never be regained.
Code: 
          . . .
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As I was mulling over this letter, it occurred to me that, since a single woman remains under the authority of her father until she is married, it is her father’s (my brother) responsibility to tell her this. So I wrote my brother a letter and asked him to forward my letter to his daughter. My brother did talk with E about my letter but her response was, “Tell Aunt K I appreciate her concern, but I don’t want to read her letter.”:sad_yes:

I made a second appeal reminding him of his obligation to help E and that he owes itto me and to her to forward my letter. She obviously mistook the intent of my letter as one of judgment, but it was a letter of PURE LOVE. No response from second appeal.:sad_yes:

The issue here is not following Church teaching, but finding God’s best for us (which is expressed in Church teaching, but most people are deaf to that now). I think it is our duty to translate Church teaching for these young people into words they can hear, so perhaps they will be spared the dreadful consequences of going against God’s perfect way.

An excellent book on this subject I heartily recommend is The Ring Makes All the Difference (Subtitle: The Hidden Consequences of Cohabitation and the Strong Benefits of Marriage) by Glenn Stanton (Moody Press).

This is an important book for women (and the men who love them) to read before they make the decision to cohabit or engage in s*x before marriage. The author points out that cohabitation is the “man’s relationship” but marriage is the woman’s. Feminism has not served women well and co-habitation is another horrible failure for women–as are, of course, contraception and abortion.

If you have someone in your family who is headed for this train wreck, PRAY! PRAY! PRAY! Ask God for wisdom to know what to do because there is a lot you can do.

em
 
Lost_Sheep said:
You are presuming that all couples who live together prior to marriage are engaging in sexual relations. (Yes, they may well be but unless you were in their bedroom while they were “doing it” you should not pass judgement because you don’t know it to be an absolute fact.) Also, I never saw sleeping together outside of marriage was necessarily a sin; it’s what you do when you are supposed to be sleeping that is a sin, but I digress…

I knew of one couple - a very devout couple - who set up housekeeping together 6 months before their wedding. This was done for practical reasons; the lease on her apartment ran out and she did not want to sign up for another year since she would be moving out in six months. So she moved in with her soon-to-be husband.

They slept in separate beds in separate rooms until after the wedding. Neither set of parents had a problem with the arrangement and even their priest said it was OK provided they “behaved themselves”.

I guess it depends on the individual situation. 🤷
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I can speak as one who actually lived this situation. When I had to move across the country to find work, my fiancee (now wife) and I could not afford to have separate apartments, so I found one two-bedroom apartment and we kept the relationship completely chaste. I even checked with the local priest that what we were doing was acceptable. He reminded us that it was not ideal, but if there were no other way and we promised to live “as brother and sister” that it was not a direct sin.

That said, I would never, ever, EVER recommend this for anyone and if I had it to do over again, I wouldn’t do it. The desire to give in to temptation was incredibly strong and we got a little too cozy on a few occasions, for which I thank God for keeping his guard on us. We never had sexual relations, though each of us admitted later that our boundaries slid further back over time. I was certainly uncomfortable by how far I let things go before we were married.

I had always assumed that people knew us well and that it was known that we were being chaste. I corrected people when they misinterpreted our relationship (the frequency that I had to do this should have been a warning). However, it wasn’t until a few weeks before the wedding that a friend told me that nobody believed it. Many relatives thought she was pregnant. Others would wink and nod when I told them we were not sleeping together. It was devastating.

Please, for anyone thinking that they could or should live together before marriage, reconsider.
 
I’m a 22 year old guy and I’m very new to Catholicism (and also Christianity (since October 1st 2011)) and I was previously aetheist as are all my family and friends so having to work it out without guidance from family/friends. I have cohabited before marriage, but I have every intention of NEVER cohabiting again until I am married (although I am currently living with my ex-girlfriend due to financal reasons and wanting to ensure the welbeing of her son (from a previous relationship and not my biological child) as personally I feel that as an adult I should be responsible and put an innocent childs needs before my own (we sleep in separate rooms, a fact all her family are well aware of). I now know how wrong I have been In the way I have lived my life previously and I wish to follow gods plan for my life and be chaste until marriage, not live with a woman until I say “I do”, and to be a better and more moral person, and I was wondering what you would suggest for my current living situation? Should I be ensuring the welbeing of an innocent child first and foremost, and be looking to move out within 6 months or should I be looking to move out ASAP?

Thankyou for taking the time to read this, and I appologise if it is slightly off topic.

-Aaron
 
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