Living together out of marriage

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cybrscream

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I’m sure this has been asked before, but I had little luck getting my answer using the search feature…

Why is it considered immoral for Catholics to live together out of wed-lock? Is it any different if the two are young adults living with one of the two’s parents? I’ve read that Catholics report that people that live together prior to marriage are more likely to divorce, but for every report stating so, I’ve found two that differ in opinion. In fact, most studies show that living together can allow people to obtain certain realizations of marriage which they cannot achieve without either marrying someone (and then living with them), or living with someone prior to marriage.

I do see where chastity can be an issue, so I’m interested in what other issues the Church has against this subject.
 
Once upon a time, the Great Author wrote a great and beautiful love story, and put it in a book. For thousands of years, people read this book and practiced it in the form of Marriage.

Then comes along the devil and says “I will counterfeit this love story and turn selfishness into love” and voila! Shacking up was invented.

Would you rather have counterfeit money or the real thing?
Would you rather have counterfeit love or the real thing?

Shacking up is to Marriage what counterfeiting is to money. If enough counterfeit US currency is around, who would trust it? (even the good ones would be distrusted)

Shackin up is a “counterfeit marriage” which makes people less likely to go for the real thing and then claim “it is only a piece of paper” and in their world, it is, since that is all it means to them.

Oh look, this panasoanic radio plays nice. BOOM uh-oh. I guess I should have had the real thing, eh? 🙂
 
Whether living together or living together with one’s parents, chastity is the issue. Choosing not to live together and date, chastity is still the issue, only easier to maintain. For the easiest road try just dating, with one’s parents.

When you are living together unmarried and you hold yourself out to be a Christian, then you are also giving scandal to His name.

Might I recommend you check out the Pure Love Club.
pureloveclub.com/
 
Yes, chastity is the issue.

Scandal is also an issue. Young unmarried people are under tremendous pressure to give in to “living together.” The more of their peers who engage in this practice, the harder it is to resist.

Finally, justice is an issue. In most cases, it is the male pressuring the female to live together. Society needs to support young women from being pressured into this situation. Once the partner moves in, it is hard to change your mind and get him to move out. Marriage is such an important decision, a person should be entirely free to say “I don’t” instead of “I do” right up to the moment they are asked at the wedding “Do you take this man (woman) as your lawfully wedded . . . ?”
 
my parents lived together before they married but because it was an (first one anulled) re-marrage and they each had kids and the chance of finding a big enough house was slim later so we had to do it ealier. they slept separatly (mom on couch for 2 years). and theay are some of the most in love married people i have ever seen. but then again tehy were chaste so the whole living in sin may not apply.
 
From someone who has lived in sin before marriage, let me answer you on a personal level… I was born and raised in a very “damned if you do anything wrong” Catholic home… This being the case, I left the faith for some years and did my own thing… I was in a very horrible time in my life when I met my now husband… He was more like my rescurer at the time. We fell in lust, (Not love) and I moved out of my own hell and made a home with him… We married about a yr and a half later…

Now I am not saying I regret get married or I regret my husband in anyway…(We are still growing in love and I pray that as the years go by we will become one in Christ as it should be.) But, I regret that we started off so very wrong… I regret that there wasn’t courtship; time to learn about each other and to fall in Love the way God meant for it to be… (I know this now in my heart).

I was damned to Hell by my family members…(Not my immediate family, but the family that pretty much raised me as Catholic), I was told I couldn’t go home…etc… But, I shrugged it off, even though it was the most wounding and loonliest time of my life. Over time however, all was forgiven after we were married of course and especially when our first child was born…Boy does that change everyones heart… (I won’t go on about this though…)

We will be celebrating our 7th wedding Anniversary this fall and we have two beautiful little girls… So, I guess my point is that I believe in my heart my husband and I are meant to be together, I believe that is the will of my Father in heaven…(Why would he have let us last this long and given us such precious treasures) But, I know I hurt God by my actions and not waiting for his time, and his plans for us… And I am certainly making up for this now in life… Our marriage isn’t perfect. We need to work on many issues together still… But we do love each other and our willing to do everything in our power to keep our family together. In fact, we hope to do a marriage Encounter weekend, every 5 yrs if possible… To keep learning about eachother…and to grow closer with everyday that we have.

I feel like I am babbling on now… I just think it is very important for young people to realize what love really is… (1 Cor. 13:4-8) Love is Patient, love is kind…It is not jealous or pompous. It is not inflated… It is not rude…It is ot quick-tempered…It is not brood over injury…It does not rejoice over wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things…Believes all things…Hopes all things…Endures all things…LOVE never fails… (Now this is a shorten version and was used as a reading at my wedding… I use it as a constant reminder of our marriage; what it was, what it is now, and what I hope it will be in the end…).

The best advice I could give and wish someone would have given me, is this… Go talkt o a good priest…someone you know well and trush his opinion and advice… If you really THINK you are in love, then ask you partner to go on an Engaged Encounter weekend…(Ask your parish priest about this too…He will be able to hook you up with one…) You will not regret these steps…and you won’t have to live with past mistakes or regrets like I do…

My thoughts and prayers go out to all young people in these times we live in… The pressures are so great and very scary IMO… I would never want to do it again…

Peace in Christ,

Tanya
 
Well I can see where the Church justifies most of what they do or say on scripture or from tradition. However, during biblical times, ot and nt, there is much about love and nothing about living together out of wed-lock. Again, there is much about lust, but nothing that connects that to living with each other before marriage, but rather has to do with the sex lives of the pagans. In the ot, many kings written of had many maidens who were not the queen that he obviously had relations with. I new with Christ came the New Covenant, but I felt that I needed to bring up both testaments. I’m in the process of conversion from protestant to Catholic, because upon doing much research I understand that it is the one true Church. There are just a few things I find in church teaching that seem to have been made by someone long after Christ’s time. This is one example, and participating in a protestant marriage is another. If my baptist friend asks me to be his best man one day in the future, I will absolutely NOT turn him down. I would be there to support him with all the love I have to give him, just as Christ and his apostles tell me to do to others in the Scripture.

Not to mention, my protestant parents lived together for some time prior to marriage, and at a young age, and are still together. They’ve now been married for 20 years and never had any major arguments. In fact, they and my grandparents and my aunt and uncle, all did the same, and all fight less than any other couple that I have ever met. None of them seem to ever fight, and I spend a lot of time with all of them, so I know they aren’t hiding negative feelings for my benefit.

And as I said…I understand the feelings on chastity, so everybody can leave this subject out of the thread. The point of my question is to find if there is any cited evidence, from scripture or from studies, that prove that living together prior to marriage is wrong. Because as I said, I know of no qoute from scripture, and just about every study I’ve found think it’s definitely a positive thing.
 
My fiance and i attended a retreat back when we were still dating which emphasized a theme of ‘We are responsible for other people’s holiness’. Let’s be honest…when you hear of other couples living together, do you not assume that they are sleeping together? And even if you don’t (we, of course, are not called to judge), think of what other people, with wavering faith perhaps, are thinking. It’s a great witness to date or be engaged to someone, and plainly tell people you are not living with anyone until you have a wedding ring on your finger. Who knows? This witness may very well change someone’s life. It changed mine.
Of course, there is also your chastity to consider. I once heard that people who live together before marriage are falsely given an impression about what their partner will be once married. Often couples who live together before marriage act differently than once married because lets face it…there’s still a way out. There’s no commitment.
 
What about the old fashioned custom of handfasting? Does anyone know how this was viewed by the Church and approximately when it changed?

From what I understand it would have been the precursor to living together prior to marriage. A young couple would join hands and either have a ceremony performed by someone else (not a member of the clergy) or do it themselves. They were then considered legally wed for exactly one year. If at the end of that year, they felt it was a good union they would then make arrangements to have the marriage made legal in the Church. If not, they parted ways.

I think I have the basics listed correctly but someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

The main reason for this custom was not so young couples could do a “trial” (as it is today) but rather because society was so spread out that finding a church, or making the long journey, was often very difficult and might take up to a year to accomplish given the necessity for a young man to be present for harvest time and things like that.

I agree with the Church’s stance on living together prior to marriage but, in some instances, it seems that the rules have become more strict as time has gone by instead of becoming more lax as is assumed by most of us.
 
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cybrscream:
I’m in the process of conversion from protestant to Catholic, because upon doing much research I understand that it is the one true Church. … Because as I said, I know of no qoute from scripture, and just about every study I’ve found think it’s definitely a positive thing.
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Jesus told Peter and the apostles that what ever he held to be bound on earth was bound in heaven. He told Peter to feed His sheep.

If you are do believe that Jesus established His one church on the earth and it stands today as the Catholic Church, then you must know that she claims the authority to teach us in these matters of faith. Otherwise anyone can come along with their own Bible and say that this sin (fornication / pornea) applied only to such and such situation, not to mine. But the Church has spoken with all its teaching authority that conjugal love is only for those who are in the sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

You may not agree with this, but if you are to be Catholic, you must follow Catholic teaching.

My own pet problem was a particular Marian doctine. (I am a convert). I did not agree with the Church’s dogma and I did not understand why it was important. But I did accept that I must be in error instead of the church.

To be Catholic, one must be submissive. This is very difficult for those of us not raised Catholic, but no one has yet died from humility.
 
It sounds like you understand why and have no problems with the chaste part of this you and your partner have agreed to remain chaste. While in theory it sounds great, you must know that it is very difficult. I tried it and was not successful. It may be considered a near occasion of sin.

I think that scandal is extremely important to consider, most people will assume that you are in a sexual relationship. They will assume that it is fine with the Church if you are practicing your faith. If you want to live together then get married!!

If it is assurances of a long, happy, healthy marriage then wait until your wedding night to have sex. Statistics show that these marriages have a 99% success rate!!

I think you should speak with a good priest. There is a great book about courtship I strongly recommend Christian Courtship in an Oversexed World, A Guide for Catholics by T. G. Morrow( a catholic priest). I also love the books by Joshua Harris although he is not Catholic.

One of the great things about being Catholic is that we don’t have to debate or try to rationalize these things the church has a clear teaching for us.

God bless,
chris
 
Both of us want to get married, it’s just a money issue right now. Part of the reason she does live full time with me is because of the situations at her mother and fathers homes. Her parents divorced when she was young, and although her father has the income to help with a wedding, I don’t think that he would. He likes me, he’s just very frugal. Her mother likes me as well, but she just doesn’t have much money at all. As for my parents, they would give all they could, but I don’t want them to pay for anything if they don’t have to, because they have enough bills to pay as is. I’m waiting on a job to come through, I’m half way through the six month hiring process right now. I’ll know if I’m hired by December, and if I get hired, then I will be able to cover a wedding by myself.
 
Living together before marriage really isn’t a great idea.
The Rutgers University study titled "Should We Live Together? What young adults need to know about cohabitation before marriage." says:
"Cohabiting unions tend to weaken the institution of marriage and pose special risks for women and children. Specifically, the research indicates that:
  • Living together before marriage increases the risk of breaking up after marriage.
  • Living together outside of marriage increases the risk of domestic violence
    for women, and the risk of physical and sexual abuse for children.
  • Unmarried couples have lower levels of happiness and wellbeing than married couples."
    Additionally it states that couples should consider the following:
  • Do not make a habit of cohabiting.
  • Limit cohabitation to the shortest possible period of time.
  • Do not cohabit if children are involved.
I found this comment to be equally telling “And no positive
contribution of cohabitation to marriage has been ever been found.”

It also states that couples who live together before marriage have a 46% GREATER chance of divorce than those that did not.

Two things about cohabitating that should be considered:
  1. when you live together before mnarriage your expectation of commitment is lowered. Why? Because, if the arrangement doesn’t work out you simply leave. No strings attached. That attitude is the taken by the couple into its marriage. “if it doesn’t work out we’ll just split up.”
  2. SEX…is a tremendously unifying element and one that will cause people (especially of the sex is ‘good’) to overlook the faults of the other person (she’s a spender…he’s a slob etc…) and, once the novelty of that aspect wears off, the person’s faults are still there and are probably causing some conflict in the marriage.
I’d suggest to anyone living together that if they inetend to get married, refrain from sex unil the wedding night. Get to know your fiance(e) on a different level… one that isn’t guided by your hormones.
 
PLEASE DO NOT “LIVE-IN” BEFORE MARRIAGE! It is morally and completely wrong in the eyes of God. Also, men will be less likely to committ if this is the case too, “why should a man buy the cow when he can get the milk free”???

Something to ponder~~~
 
Please no one else tell me that something is completely morally wrong in the eyes of God. I ask this for two reasons:
  1. Your not God
  2. To my knowledge, nobody has died, gone to Heaven, and then come back to tell about it.
So, unless you’ve died and come back from Heaven, you really have no idea what God views as right or wrong. The next closest thing would to be a Cardinal in a council deciding where the Church should stand on an issue. And I understand what the churchs decision is on this issue, I just wanted some evidence as to why they chose so, even though there is no biblical evidence stating so. Theres much information in Scripture regarding fornication and chastity, but nothing regarding premarital cohabitation.

And…

Don’t be quick to judge why others do things. I know the Church views cohabitation as morally wrong, but don’t tell others not to do it. Just tell them that the church doesn’t agree with it. I’m sure you’ve done things in your life that the Church doesn’t agree on…we all have. Hence, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”
 
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cybrscream:
I know the Church views cohabitation as morally wrong, but don’t tell others not to do it."
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So we’re all just to hold our tongues when it comes to moral issues? Or just some moral issues? I guess we shouldn’t tell the world that abortion is wrong? We as Catholics who abide by the teachings of the Church have a duty to say abortion is wrong. The fact that someone doesn’t agree with that doesn’t mean it’s any less true.
Suppose that you were driving over a two lane bridge and you noticed that there was a tremendous hole in the roadway in the opposite lane about halfway across the bridge. I’m assuming you would get out and make sure that no cars coming in the opposite direction went into that hole.
That’s called a moral decision. To do nothing would be immoral. Now there might be a pigheaded driver who comes along and says “So what… I don’t believe you.” and drives off the bridge. Is that your fault? No, you had warned him. But your moral obligation was fulfilled.

As for…
cyberscream:
Hence, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”
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If you read the rest of this section of the Gospel you’ll see that Jesus also says. “Go…and sin no more.” Oops…did He recognize what the prostitute did was a sin?

I don’t think anyone is judging you. We can’t, only God can. I think what they’re saying is that to continue to indulge in a certain type of behavior might be detrimental to your (or whomever’s) spiritual health and well being.
Be patient and take (or don’t take) any suggestions with the spirit of charity with which they’re given.
 
Based on the fact that none of us are God or dead I believe the only other conclusion is that cyberscream does not believe in moral absolutes. Hence, there can be no answer to satisfy.
 
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cybrscream:
Well I can see where the I’m in the process of conversion from protestant to Catholic, because upon doing much research I understand that it is the one true Church. There are just a few things I find in church teaching that seem to have been made by someone long after Christ’s time. This is one example, and participating in a protestant marriage is another. If my baptist friend asks me to be his best man one day in the future, I will absolutely NOT turn him down. I would be there to support him with all the love I have to give him, just as Christ and his apostles tell me to do to others in the Scripture.
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Congratulations on your coming home to the Catholic Church. Since you are converting you must already know the Church is more than scripture. We derive our teachings from Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium. Although you can go to the Old Testament and read about Moses on the mountain. God wrote thou shalt not commit adultery. The magisterium calls this the sixth commandment, and has said this is to include fornication etc. The authority to decide what or what was not included in this particular commandment was given by Jesus Christ in Mt 16:19 to Peter thus his Church.

Regarding attending the marriage of your Baptist friend. Why would you not be allowed to attend the wedding? You would not be permitted to attend if he was a Catholic and did not have permission from the Bishop. You may not receive communion if you are a Catholic, but if there is a rule regarding attending etc., I sure never heard about it. You may want to check further with your parish priest.
 
I guess if you try hard enough… you can justify almost anything…
I for one don’t think anyone believes it’s morally ok, but different strokes for different ghost… free will is a biggie in Christ church… 👍
 
Regarding my most recent post, I wasn’t meaning that I disagree, I just want this to be a post regarding hard evidence…not claims that God thinks so because somebody just SAYS it’s so. Read into posts carefully before you reply please.

My thoughts on this subject were brought about because I’ve found no evidence to prove that “cohabitation” is wrong. And no one has brought about any scriptural evidence to prove otherwise. The Church’s reasoning is obviously based on chastity, and not on anything else. And that’s fine…I don’t agree with it, but that’s not going to keep me from converting. I will tell the priest who hears my first confession that I am guilty of premarital cohabitation…but I will eventually be married, and I know that…AND God knows that too, unless He’s got other plans for me!!! So if God thinks that what I’ve done in the past is wrong, I’m sure He’ll let me know that when I pass, but I also know that He will forgive me if in fact it was wrong for me to do such things.
 
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