Living together

[Liberanosamalo]

As for parents who lived together… what do you tell your children when they demand to do the same thing because you did it, so why shouldn’t they? Sometimes a young man who wants to use a girl will go elsewhere if being with her would require the exercise of self control. How many of you dads out there who see nothing wrong with shacking up will feel the same way when some unworthy slob wants to use your daughter as a maid and sex partner for a few years to “test drive” her and see if she’s worthy?

How many of you will approve when some female you may not like wants to live with your son so she can be halfway there as far as roping him in?

And by the way, if you’re living with someone who is so-so, a really nice person may come along and keep walking because you aren’t available. How many want that to happen to their kids?

Does this issue look different from a parental point of view for those who see nothing wrong with themselves doing it?

 

[rotlex]

As for parents who lived together… what do you tell your children when they demand to do the same thing because you did it, so why shouldn’t they?

I would attempt to explain to them why it was wrong, and why waiting until they were married is truly the best choice. I would also think that by the time they were ready to “demand” to do this, they would be self sufficient financially, and other than my talking to them, the decision would pretty much be their own. Admittedly, this would be a case of “do as I say, and not as I do”, and ultimately I would have to discuss why I think it is wrong, when my wife and I did do it, and are still together, many, many years later.

With that said, it was rather different “back then”, as both of our parents were from a different generation as well. To be honest, neither of them had any objection to us living together before we were married, and in fact, they thought it was a good idea. Imagine that.

 

[MercyMia]

I just want to say that this post was not meant to be a personal condemnation of those on this board who have lived together outside of marriage. It was not my intention to place judgment on anyone.
However, you will never get me to say that mocking the sanctity of marriage is okay. Have you ever noticed that the devil is always following closely behind Christ, mocking him, distorting his words and convincing us that things are “okay?” You see that’s what the devil does, he mocks Christ by using phony imitations and convincing us it is the real thing. Living together is mockery of marriage. It is a false commitment. You may get all excited and pick out a lovely sofa and matching plates - but you are not living out as man and woman like Christ intended. Its got all the veneer of a commitment, but its a mirror trick.
That is the side of it that I come down on. No, not every couple who lives together will be divorced. But will they be edified by living together? Will they learn about self-sacrifice? Will they grow closer to Christ because of it?

 

[Liberanosamalo]

You realize, of course, that you being together still is the exception to the rule. Your children will see THAT and think THEY can also have that. It is setting them up for possible disappointment.

I’d perfect the discussion right now of how if you had to do it over you’d do it differently and what is different in today’s world to justify that.

Live together long enough, you have a common-law situation that may not be easy to get out of.

People have sued for palimony. There could be unforetold legal consequences of living with someone you don’t know that well. (C’mon. They can’t have it both ways. Do they know each other really well? Or are they living together to find out important things about each other? Which is it? Pick one.)

If you are choosing to live with a stranger you don’t know well enough to get engaged to, buyer beware. This could end badly.

If you know each other that well that you feel there will be no surprises living together, then why not make it permanent and get engaged and get married like you should?

This whole test drive thing is inconsistent at its foundation. And risky.

The third option is that one or both parties is keeping their options open in case someone better comes along. In that case, someone is being USED. Pope John Paul II said “USE is the opposite of LOVE.”

 

[rotlex]

You realize, of course, that you being together still is the exception to the rule. Your children will see THAT and think THEY can also have that. It is setting them up for possible disappointment.

I’d perfect the discussion right now of how if you had to do it over you’d do it differently and what is different in today’s world to justify that.

Live together long enough, you have a common-law situation that may not be easy to get out of.

People have sued for palimony. There could be unforetold legal consequences of living with someone you don’t know that well. (C’mon. They can’t have it both ways. Do they know each other really well? Or are they living together to find out important things about each other? Which is it? Pick one.)

If you are choosing to live with a stranger you don’t know well enough to get engaged to, buyer beware. This could end badly.

If you know each other that well that you feel there will be no surprises living together, then why not make it permanent and get engaged and get married like you should?

This whole test drive thing is inconsistent at its foundation. And risky.

The third option is that one or both parties is keeping their options open in case someone better comes along. In that case, someone is being USED. Pope John Paul II said “USE is the opposite of LOVE.”

I agree with you 100%. I also agree it can be a very difficult situation. One that I would not want my own children getting into. My wife and I are an exception. (OK, I do know of two other couples married when we were, friends of ours, that also lived together back then, and are still together).

Again, our reason at the time was well, I guess we didn’t really have a reason. It just happened, as these things sometimes do, when you are young, happy and foolish all at the same time.

We had also done a lot of other things I’m not so proud of today, but again, I hope I have learned from them, and can teach my children a little better about certain issues, when the time comes. I thank God every day for giving me the family I have. A wife that I truly love and adore, that loves me back more than I could have ever possibly imagined. Not to sound cliche, but she is truly my soul mate, and we have survived all this together.

Now, we just have to make sure our children survive it. I also ask God each day for the wisdom and strength to be the best husband, and best father I can be. Every day.

 

[Joe_5859]

Mmm, that’s odd, as I know a number who did, and still are married. My wife and I included. I’m not bragging about it, or saying it was right, but we lived together for 2 years before getting married. Why? I don’t know. We were young, in love, and wanted too. We just didn’t get married first, it’s really as simple as that. Would I do it again? At my age now, no. Turn back the clock and make me 20 again? Probably, as I looked at things very differently back then.

Oh, for reference, my wife and I will be happily celebrating our 20th wedding anniversary this year.

Admittedly, I don’t know that many cohabitating couples. I don’t really ask people I meet if they cohabitated before marriage, so I could very well know some (those people who were married before I met them). But the vast majority in my circle of friends did not cohabitate before marriage.

 

[dulcissima]

You realize, of course, that you being together still is the exception to the rule.

And just because they are still married at 20 years does not mean that there are no ill effects from having lived together prior to getting married. I lived with my ex for 4 years and then was married to him for 17 years. It came as a shock to him when I left him. He had always told people we were the perfect couple. That’s the image he wanted to believe and what he projected outwardly. The truth is that after 4 years together, I knew we should not get married, but felt I had little choice since we had already lived together for so long. I spent a long time trying to get it right.

It’s pretty difficult to build a good sound house on a faulty foundation. Anyone who is happily married after first living together should make sure that they have put enough work into shoring up the deficiencies in that foundation or it could all come crumbling down.

 

[Serap]

I cohabitated with my husband for 3 years and now we’ve been married for 3 years and we are a very happily married couple. I am, however, the execption to the rule also. It has only been 3 years of marriage, but it has been 3 very happy years and we are expecting our second child. Both of us do not believe in divorce and have strong family values…again, exception to the rule.

I moved in with my then boyfriend b/c he wouldn’t marry me (so he said) unless we lived together first. I did and then 2.5 years later I got fed up with his hmmming and haaaaing about marriage, so I gave him an ultimatum…marry me or ship out. 2 months later he proposed

It worked for us, but I would try and tell my daughter how it hurt me when I was living with my then boyfriend without the committment or feeling that we were family. I will tell her that I often felt used and unappreciated b/c we didn’t have the committment. Hopefully, she’ll listen to me. That’s all I can pray for.

 

[rotlex]

And just because they are still married at 20 years does not mean that there are no ill effects from having lived together prior to getting married. I lived with my ex for 4 years and then was married to him for 17 years. It came as a shock to him when I left him. He had always told people we were the perfect couple. That’s the image he wanted to believe and what he projected outwardly. The truth is that after 4 years together, I knew we should not get married, but felt I had little choice since we had already lived together for so long. I spent a long time trying to get it right.

It’s pretty difficult to build a good sound house on a faulty foundation. Anyone who is happily married after first living together should make sure that they have put enough work into shoring up the deficiencies in that foundation or it could all come crumbling down.

Wow…don’t assume just because you had a bad experience, that everyone does. I’m sorry to hear things didn’t work out for you, but I really can’t stand when people just assume the house was built “on a faulty foundation”, just because someone lived with someone first.

No, I don’t believe it is the right way to do it, but it does not in any way shape or form mean it cannot be solid. Your dead wrong on that. Maybe not in all cases, but in more than you are probably aware of. (Although I’m sure there are some “statistics” somewhere that would prove me wrong on that).

 

[emreyn]

Hi, so this is my first time on here, and I am not sure how all of this works. I hope I am doing this right (posting in the right place) But I had a question about living together. I Catholic and my boyfriend (now fiance!) is not, but he wants to learn more about it and possibly convert. We moved in together when we were boyfriend and girlfriend and have now recently gotten engaged. We definitley want a Catholic wedding, but I am worried that the fact that we live together will be a problem. Do I need to hide the fact that we live together from the church? Is this going to be a problem for our wedding? Thanks

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Hi, so this is my first time on here, and I am not sure how all of this works. I hope I am doing this right (posting in the right place) But I had a question about living together. I Catholic and my boyfriend (now fiance!) is not, but he wants to learn more about it and possibly convert. We moved in together when we were boyfriend and girlfriend and have now recently gotten engaged. We definitley want a Catholic wedding, but I am worried that the fact that we live together will be a problem. Do I need to hide the fact that we live together from the church? Is this going to be a problem for our wedding? Thanks

No, you should not hid the truth from the priest. When is the wedding? Is there any way you can make another living arrangement until then–one of you stay with parents, friends, etc.?

Part of the reason for that is so that the church can be sure that no one is being coerced into this marrige. If you cannot live apart, there may be a question about whether you have financial or other reasons (abuse, etc.) why you feel you must be married.

Of course, none of this may apply to you, and you may think it is all a stupid exercise for show. But a few months of living apart will be nothing in the long run of being truly sure you are wedding in freedom and of knowing that your marriage began within the truths of the church.

 

[jmcrae]

So they wouldn’t have “felt obligated to go to the next step” after dating for 6 years?

People claim that cohabitation leads to divorce, but I’ve long argued against the theory, and I have yet to see a controlled, well designed academic study that proves it - most show a correlation and assume a dependency, which is dishonest at best. Quite frankly, it’s pseudoscience.

I really don’t know whether it does or it doesn’t - it’s completely beside the point. We are not to live in a "marriage-like’ relationship with someone who is not our spouse. Not because “something bad” will happen if we do, but because the bad thing that happens is that you are living with someone who is not your spouse, behaving as if you were spouses to one another.

*That’*s the bad thing, right there - telling a lie with your body, telling a lie to your body, and creating a situation where things are being demanded of you that you haven’t actually agreed to be part of, yet.

Not whatever happens next - children born out of wedlock, one of them walking out on the relationship with no legal obligation to share any of the jointly accumulated wealth, or whatever. Those things most likely won’t cause the world to end, even if they do happen.

But this whole thing of “don’t do this bad thing, because it will force you to do this other bad thing,” because the next bad thing you might or might not do because of the bad thing you’re doing now is totally beside the point.

I think if you want to know how well you would do, living with another person, get a room mate. You will learn plenty of ugly truths about yourself, and you won’t wreck your as-yet uncommitted romantic relationship in the process.

 

[stelline]

The article posted by the OP definitely sounds like a typical secularist. I laugh, really I do, when I hear the whole “test drive” reasoning.

I’ve always seen cohabitation as “scraps from the table” or “why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.” I would NEVER cheapen myself by living with a guy I was not married to. Are you KIDDING?? Hey buddy, if you and I didn’t hit it off during our first few months of seeing each other, living together isn’t going to change anything.

A guy telling me he wants to live with me as a “test drive” before marriage is telling me this:

I’m not completely thrilled at the idea of marrying you. I mean, I LIKE you and being with you is gratifying, but I don’t want to commit to you yet because I think I might REGRET it.

WOW, that sounds like a REALLY GOOD relationship we’ve got going there, huh? Now why the f would I move in with a guy like that??? Sorry, I’ve got too much self esteem for that. And I’m not going to allow such a person to USE me for my financial resources or anything else. What am I, some sort of chump?

But that’s me and how I would feel in such a situation. I have never backed down from guarding my honor and refused to lower my standards. It distresses me greatly that so many people are without formation from parents and priests who have instead left children and young people unguided.

 

[jmcrae]

A guy telling me he wants to live with me as a “test drive” before marriage is telling me this:

I’m not completely thrilled at the idea of marrying you. I mean, I LIKE you and being with you is gratifying, but I don’t want to commit to you yet because I think I might REGRET it.

WOW, that sounds like a REALLY GOOD relationship we’ve got going there, huh? Now why the f would I move in with a guy like that??? Sorry, I’ve got too much self esteem for that. And I’m not going to allow such a person to USE me for my financial resources or anything else. What am I, some sort of chump?

But that’s me and how I would feel in such a situation. I have never backed down from guarding my honor and refused to lower my standards. It distresses me greatly that so many people are without formation from parents and priests who have instead left children and young people unguided.

I agree completely.

 

[stelline]

Hi, so this is my first time on here, and I am not sure how all of this works. I hope I am doing this right (posting in the right place) But I had a question about living together. I Catholic and my boyfriend (now fiance!) is not, but he wants to learn more about it and possibly convert. We moved in together when we were boyfriend and girlfriend and have now recently gotten engaged. We definitley want a Catholic wedding, but I am worried that the fact that we live together will be a problem. Do I need to hide the fact that we live together from the church? Is this going to be a problem for our wedding? Thanks

Welcome to CAF! :tiphat:

As far as I know, marriage can still happen (as far as I know) even if one or both of the persons marrying is in mortal sin (Please, someone correct me if I am wrong about that–I’d hate to misinform someone). It is definitely encouraged that such people go to confession so that they may receive the full graces of the sacrament of marriage. You do not need to hide that from the priest, though he won’t be exactly happy about it.

Your posting distresses me a bit though. Your main concern seems to be whether or not you can have a Catholic wedding, instead of whether or not you ought to be living with a man you are not married to. I think you should be more concerned about that. Otherwise I don’t understand why it’s important for you to get married in a church that you don’t agree with by your very actions. I apologize for my bluntness, and wish I had time to sugar-coat that better, but I’m about to leave work and want to send this posting off.

Please consider that point in all sincerity.

 

[whatevergirl]

The article posted by the OP definitely sounds like a typical secularist. I laugh, really I do, when I hear the whole “test drive” reasoning.

I’ve always seen cohabitation as “scraps from the table” or “why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.” I would NEVER cheapen myself by living with a guy I was not married to. Are you KIDDING?? Hey buddy, if you and I didn’t hit it off during our first few months of seeing each other, living together isn’t going to change anything.

A guy telling me he wants to live with me as a “test drive” before marriage is telling me this:

I’m not completely thrilled at the idea of marrying you. I mean, I LIKE you and being with you is gratifying, but I don’t want to commit to you yet because I think I might REGRET it.

WOW, that sounds like a REALLY GOOD relationship we’ve got going there, huh? Now why the f would I move in with a guy like that??? Sorry, I’ve got too much self esteem for that. And I’m not going to allow such a person to USE me for my financial resources or anything else. What am I, some sort of chump?

But that’s me and how I would feel in such a situation. I have never backed down from guarding my honor and refused to lower my standards. It distresses me greatly that so many people are without formation from parents and priests who have instead left children and young people unguided.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I moved in with my then boyfriend b/c he wouldn’t marry me (so he said) unless we lived together first. I did and then 2.5 years later I got fed up with his hmmming and haaaaing about marriage, so I gave him an ultimatum…marry me or ship out. 2 months later he proposed

Serap, you do realize that this is exactly the kind of thing marriage tribunals look at after a marriage falls apart?

If after 10 years your husband decides he wants out, do you know he can claim that he was pressured to marry you because if he didn’t, you would throw him out of his home?

Not that this will happen to you, and I hope that you have many happy years. But the average guy is not as eager to make any commitment at all. Living together allows them to remain immature and uncommitted and having it all without giving the person they claim to love something they dearly want in return. For 2.5 years he told you “I love you. But not that much.”

To me, personally, that is a deal killer. And too many women buy into the lie that if they tolerate bad behavior somehow they’ll get what they really want eventually.

I remember congratulating the CCD teachers of one of my kids at First Communion on their upcoming wedding. I asked them if they were nervous. They laughed and said no. Right in front of my newly Communioned child: “We’ve been living together. So we’re not nervous.”



Thanks, people.

 

[jenlovesyu]

I’m REALLY loving the responses to this thread lol

I think this one hits the nail on the head!

I really don’t know whether it does or it doesn’t - it’s completely beside the point. We are not to live in a "marriage-like’ relationship with someone who is not our spouse. Not because “something bad” will happen if we do, but because the bad thing that happens is that you are living with someone who is not your spouse, behaving as if you were spouses to one another.

*That’*s the bad thing, right there - telling a lie with your body, telling a lie to your body, and creating a situation where things are being demanded of you that you haven’t actually agreed to be part of, yet.

Not whatever happens next - children born out of wedlock, one of them walking out on the relationship with no legal obligation to share any of the jointly accumulated wealth, or whatever. Those things most likely won’t cause the world to end, even if they do happen.

But this whole thing of “don’t do this bad thing, because it will force you to do this other bad thing,” because the next bad thing you might or might not do because of the bad thing you’re doing now is totally beside the point.

I think if you want to know how well you would do, living with another person, get a room mate. You will learn plenty of ugly truths about yourself, and you won’t wreck your as-yet uncommitted romantic relationship in the process.

 

[Serap]

Serap, you do realize that this is exactly the kind of thing marriage tribunals look at after a marriage falls apart?

If after 10 years your husband decides he wants out, do you know he can claim that he was pressured to marry you because if he didn’t, you would throw him out of his home?

Not that this will happen to you, and I hope that you have many happy years. But the average guy is not as eager to make any commitment at all. Living together allows them to remain immature and uncommitted and having it all without giving the person they claim to love something they dearly want in return. For 2.5 years he told you “I love you. But not that much.”

To me, personally, that is a deal killer. And too many women buy into the lie that if they tolerate bad behavior somehow they’ll get what they really want eventually.

I remember congratulating the CCD teachers of one of my kids at First Communion on their upcoming wedding. I asked them if they were nervous. They laughed and said no. Right in front of my newly Communioned child: “We’ve been living together. So we’re not nervous.”



Thanks, people.

I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, but I’m definitely not living a lie and neither is my husband. We love eachother very much and are very committed to eachother. We are definitely not the norm, given our situation. My husband is also not the “average guy” and I am very secure in my relationship.

I grew up in a home with very few moral values. My parents are now divorced and I was badly treated as a child. If I had of had the mother that I am being to my daughter, I probably wouldn’t have moved in with my boyfriend b/c I would have had the emotional support I needed. I didn’t have any family to support me emotionally or financially. I have been supporting myself since I was 18 (university expenses and all).

I finally fell deeply in-love at age 30 (because I was afraid to love anyone) and my boyfriend wanted us to live together first (because he had also had a difficult childhood); I took that chance because I loved him and I knew that I was fine being on my own again if need be.

If he comes back in 10 years and claims what you mentioned, that’s life and I would cross that bridge IF it came to me. I’m not afraid of being alone and I don’t suffer from low self-esteem which many may assume here. I highly doubt that my husband and I will ever divorce. We are both very much against divorce especially now that we have children. We have a very tight relationship and we support eachother’s goals.

I wouldn’t want my children to cohabitate and I will tell them that they will always have a roof over their heads as long as I’m alive if they need it. My daughter will have me and my husband to support her emotionally. She won’t have the struggles that I or my husband has had. I think this will make a big difference in her ability to make good decisions for herself later.

It’s easy to judge people like me, but unless you have lived my shoes, you shouldn’t assume anything or pass any judgements. All of us have different journeys in life and some journeys are a lot more difficult and longer than others. The important thing is that we get to where we would have been had things been different and that’s where I am today.

I joined this thread not to say that cohabitation is ok, but to provide some different insight.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Oh, Serap, I’ve read enough of your posts to know you’ve had an astounding life and to be where you are now is quite an accomplishment! God meets us where we are and if we follow Him He will take us where He wants us to go. You and your husband are a great hope to many of us who are watching the usual teenage garbage and it gives me tremendous personal hope that my own children, even if they veer off the path, will find their way back. If you could do it without the love and prayers of your mother, imagine the children whose mothers are caring and praying for them will find their way more quickly.

I do know of one young woman who went to live with her boyfriend’s family. I suspect abuse was going on in her home. She married him eventually and they have lived a long and happy life together. I recognize that sometimes a man is literally the salvation of someone in a bad situation. I’m not God and I don’t send people to hell for stuff. I just know our society is undermining the basis for family and marriage and articles that equate living together as test drives do nothing to elevate our humanity and dignity.