Living together

[whatevergirl]

I have been trying to bite my lip on this comment, but I must proceed. The reason I am so upset with the tones in this thread is because I have seen it multiple times: a cohabitating couple that’s not incredibly strong in their faith is told that cohabitation is a mortal sin, that they’re “living in sin”, and that they can’t be married in the Church. What happens? They go get married someplace else and put their souls at risk.

That is exactly what is happening here. Someone comes in and mentions that she is cohabitating, and she’s basically told that she’s not Catholic and shouldn’t get married in the Church because, obviously, she doesn’t understand what the Church teaches.

Talk about the work of the Devil…

I don’t know how old you are, but these days dating for more than a week gives the assumption that two people are having sex. A couple that cohabitates, has two different bedrooms, shops separately, and has separate property actually sends the opposite signal to anyone who visits their house. But the average parishioner doesn’t see the inside of their house to know their living arrangement? The average parishioner also doesn’t know that they have the same address.

Again, you don’t know the person’s situation, you’re assuming it’s a “shacking up” situation. Here’s an example: a young woman lives at home with her parents and does not work (she’s planning to be a stay at home mother). She’s engaged and about to be married. Suddenly, both parents are killed, they have debt so the house and cars are repossessed, and the woman is on the street with no money. Her fiance has a house but can’t afford to pay for his house and a separate apartment for her. What a horrible couple they are…

What to hear how it continues? They go to setup their wedding at his parish, and when they tell the secretary they have the same address, she tells them that they can’t be married if they cohabitate since it’s a sin.

Want me to go on? Emotionally distraught, they get married outside of the Church, are prevented from receiving the sacraments, and become so bitter that they lose all of their faith. Then, I spend 15 years trying to convince them that the right thing to do is to convalidate their marriage, only to have them long on here and read this thread.

Please point me to the sin. Scandal is about the best you can do, and that is situation dependent. There are many people in the Church that point to cohabitation being a bad thing, and I agree. There are many people in the Church that advise against it, and I agree. But, there is no specific sin associated with sharing a roof with another person of the opposite sex, even if you intend to marry that person. Someone cohabitating is not inherently anti-Catholic, someone cohabitating is not inherently in sin.

Actually, that is the opposite.

Two people, two bedrooms, separate property - they are controlling themselves. Two people, one bedroom, common property - they are not controlling themselves. These are two separate instances.

The issue you get into is assuming that everyone who cohabitates falls into the situation where they 1) want to cohabitate, and 2) fornicate. That’s a dangerous assumption to make.

Beyond being none of your business, the opinions of many posters on here are wrong, and a previous thread (and now this one) on the topic are directly preventing at least one couple I personally know (and have been fighting for) from returning to the Church.

---

Hi FastLearner;

As Catholics, when we make a good act of contrition in confession, we ask God to help keep us from near occasions of sin. This is really all we’re saying here. Sharing bills, dishes, the bathroom, and an address, in and of itself, is not sinful. But, it has the potential to cause one to sin. Hanging out alone in someone’s apartment, while dating, also has the potential of near occasion of sin. You mentioned that earlier, you are right.

So, as we make our way through a very tempting world…we should really try to avoid near occasions of sin. Living together, more often than not, creates a tempting environment. Not that this is the ONLY tempting environment, but it is one…and for many, a real stumbing block. I did not want to live with my husband before marriage, because I know I’m human, he’s human…why tempt the potential. That’s all we are saying.

It can be scandalous because as Catholics we should avoid near occasions of sin, but yet we don’t walk that walk, when we choose to live with someone. You mention a fiancee having a financial hardship…and then, she needs to move in with her fiance. Why? If she wasn’t engaged, she’d have to figure out a way to manage. Would he not help her unless she moves in? Why not?

It’s wrong because we shouldn’t tempt ourselves. We shouldn’t test God, either. Well…I’m strong enough, and this won’t happen to me, I love God, and He will protect me. God gives us free will…to think for ourselves as well. He gives us the CCC, the Bible, and prayer…and if we still go forth and place ourselves in a PLACE TO BE TEMPTED…well, that’s when we can fall.

That’s all we’re trying to say here, really. ***

 

[Joe_5859]

I think the priest in my case, was happy to marry us to get us out of sinning and back to the faith.

My impression was that this is how most priests feel about it.

 

[jmcrae]

Here’s an example: a young woman lives at home with her parents and does not work (she’s planning to be a stay at home mother). She’s engaged and about to be married. Suddenly, both parents are killed, they have debt so the house and cars are repossessed, and the woman is on the street with no money. Her fiance has a house but can’t afford to pay for his house and a separate apartment for her. What a horrible couple they are…

Look, the young woman has my sympathies on the loss of her parents, but what would she do if she were not engaged to be married? That is to say, what would she do if the option to live with her boyfriend did not exist?

Most people have sympathetic aunts that they can live with until they get their feet under them, and if she doesn’t have a sympathetic aunt, then there is usually someone at Church who is willing to take someone in as a housekeeper, temporarily, until she gets her feet under her.

There is no need for her to begin living as her fiancé’s wife, until she has actually made her wedding vows, and has heard him make his in return - even in this very unlikely scenario.

 

[EvelynEVF]

FastLearner, the solution to two people who can’t live separately for whatever reason, isn’t to move in together and cause scandal. The solution is for people in the parish to step up and take care of them, so that they don’t feel that the only option is to cause scandal and live in a (very) near occasion of sin.

We as a Body need to help people find real, livable solutions rather than winking at sin or the near occasion of it.

 

[JMJT28]

I love all the analogies being used here, albeit I haven’t had time to read them ALL, the ones I have read so far are very good. I am engaged and NOT living with my fiancé. I know of few people who have not or are not living with their significant other before marriage. It makes my heart sink every time I hear of another friend, co-worker etc living with their boyfriend/girlfriend. I wish I knew how to warn them without sounding harsh. I didn’t think that not living with my fiance was such a big deal until one day at work a girl asked me why I wasn’t living with my fiance and everyone turned around (and they all seemed to look puzzled). I was so dumbfounded because it has always just been a given for me, that that would never happen- I really didn’t have anything to say. The only thing running through my head at that time was that its very sinful, and does the couple no good on so many levels (I was actually thinking about divorce rates which I had just read about). I didn’t even know where to start, and I knew that if I did try to come up with a short answer quickly, it would be very incomplete, not thought out and very likely to upset everyone since they were all living or had lived outside of marriage with their SO. I am realizing I need to have a quick explanations at my finger tips for such an important topic which isn’t soon to go away. Poor excuses, next time I’ll know more what to say.

As one previous poster mentioned, true- maybe young people just have different priorities, I just hope they get them straightened out.

Also, I know of a number of Catholics who lived/ are living together before marriage. I understand the concept of the church marrying them with the notion that then they will not be living in sin any longer… But is the Church actually discouraging the living together? Because it seems to be very common. Why do people want to get married in the Catholic church if they don’t believe in its teachings? It seems like spitting in the face of Jesus to me.

 

[MercyMia]

I love all the analogies being used here, albeit I haven’t had time to read them ALL, the ones I have read so far are very good. I am engaged and NOT living with my fiancé. I know of few people who have not or are not living with their significant other before marriage. It makes my heart sink every time I hear of another friend, co-worker etc living with their boyfriend/girlfriend. I wish I knew how to warn them without sounding harsh. I didn’t think that not living with my fiance was such a big deal until one day at work a girl asked me why I wasn’t living with my fiance and everyone turned around (and they all seemed to look puzzled). I was so dumbfounded because it has always just been a given for me, that that would never happen- I really didn’t have anything to say. The only thing running through my head at that time was that its very sinful, and does the couple no good on so many levels (I was actually thinking about divorce rates which I had just read about). I didn’t even know where to start, and I knew that if I did try to come up with a short answer quickly, it would be very incomplete, not thought out and very likely to upset everyone since they were all living or had lived outside of marriage with their SO. I am realizing I need to have a quick explanations at my finger tips for such an important topic which isn’t soon to go away. Poor excuses, next time I’ll know more what to say.

I also had lots of people asking why my husband and I didn’t live together before marriage, as though not living together was odd. I would just say “Oh, we are very traditional.” That would usually satisfy them.

 

[jmcrae]

I love all the analogies being used here, albeit I haven’t had time to read them ALL, the ones I have read so far are very good. I am engaged and NOT living with my fiancé. I know of few people who have not or are not living with their significant other before marriage. It makes my heart sink every time I hear of another friend, co-worker etc living with their boyfriend/girlfriend. I wish I knew how to warn them without sounding harsh. I didn’t think that not living with my fiance was such a big deal until one day at work a girl asked me why I wasn’t living with my fiance and everyone turned around (and they all seemed to look puzzled). I was so dumbfounded because it has always just been a given for me, that that would never happen- I really didn’t have anything to say. The only thing running through my head at that time was that its very sinful, and does the couple no good on so many levels (I was actually thinking about divorce rates which I had just read about). I didn’t even know where to start, and I knew that if I did try to come up with a short answer quickly, it would be very incomplete, not thought out and very likely to upset everyone since they were all living or had lived outside of marriage with their SO. I am realizing I need to have a quick explanations at my finger tips for such an important topic which isn’t soon to go away. Poor excuses, next time I’ll know more what to say.

I had a neighbor once who responded to questions like that by saying, “I would so hate to have my Jesus, who suffered and died on the Cross for my sins, to be disappointed in me, when both He and I know that I know better.”

I never saw anybody argue with her.

Also, I know of a number of Catholics who lived/ are living together before marriage. I understand the concept of the church marrying them with the notion that then they will not be living in sin any longer… But is the Church actually discouraging the living together? Because it seems to be very common.

We don’t seem to make this sort of thing very well known - most of the people I talk to when the subject comes up are astounded that the Church actually teaches this - it just never dawns on them that cultural norms are not always okay with the Church.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Haha. The best answer you can give them, is to just smile and say you’re a hopeless romantic and your fiance wants to carry you over the threshold for the first time in your wedding dress.

Then go make copies or something.

You don’t need to justify why you do things to an unbelieving world.

As for the example given above of the orphaned girl…

well, even if it wasn’t a 1 in 1 million dilemma…

How close were they to the wedding? If they were engaged, didn’t they know the priest yet and talk to him about what to do? Why did the parish secretary have the power to tell them they couldn’t get married? They should have talked to the priest and moved up the wedding day. Personally, if my parents had just died in a car accident, I wouldn’t be keen on a big wedding anyway.

There was NO ONE to go live with? For a few months till the wedding? NO ONE???

Not a female friend? Not an aunt or uncle? Not the grooms parents? Just for a few months?

Personally, I would have called the parish secretary’s bluff and asked her if the fiancee could live with her till the wedding. Or asked to be put through to Father’s office.

Instead, they were so distraught they walked away? Didn’t think outside the box?

I’m sorry this couple had no friends who weren’t kind enough to take a newly orphaned grieving young woman into their homes for a few months so she could plan her wedding?

For me the shock and immediacy of my own mortality being thrown in my face by the sudden death of both my parents would make me MORE likely to live according to God’s law, not less.

The Church probably won’t change 2,000 years of teaching on the subject because this one couple couldn’t think outside the box or find a better way to handle a rare situation.

 

[agapewolf]

I am a single, chaste female in my mid 30’s. I own my own house and have a good job right now, but of course, none of us really knows what life will throw at us.

I’m currently dating someone, but if ever and whenever I do get serious or engaged, there is absolutely nothing that would make the risk worth cohabitating. NOTHING. The situation written about above… the cohabitation makes things worse, not better.

I say risk because it is very very risky. Temptation, scandal, communication delays, true self-awareness and evaluation of the other person, etc, etc, etc. If I lose my job and house, I’ve got friends and many many acquaintences that would lend me a space on their couch. Even 2 weeks living together previous to marriage is a falacy, even if completely chaste.

My boyfriend said something just a few days ago about us traveling together, if we did. He made the point that he would get a seperate/adjoining hotel room. He said this: Someday, if this works out to its intended goal, we will be able to look back on these decisions with pride, integrity, and no shame. Nothing to hide.

What’s the difference moving in 2 weeks prior to marriage, even if chaste? GRACE. Grace from the sacrament.

 

[CatholicLife777]

As for the example given above of the orphaned girl…

well, even if it wasn’t a 1 in 1 million dilemma…

How close were they to the wedding? If they were engaged, didn’t they know the priest yet and talk to him about what to do? Why did the parish secretary have the power to tell them they couldn’t get married? They should have talked to the priest and moved up the wedding day. Personally, if my parents had just died in a car accident, I wouldn’t be keen on a big wedding anyway.

There was NO ONE to go live with? For a few months till the wedding? NO ONE???

Not a female friend? Not an aunt or uncle? Not the grooms parents? Just for a few months?

Personally, I would have called the parish secretary’s bluff and asked her if the fiancee could live with her till the wedding. Or asked to be put through to Father’s office.

Instead, they were so distraught they walked away? Didn’t think outside the box?

I’m sorry this couple had no friends who weren’t kind enough to take a newly orphaned grieving young woman into their homes for a few months so she could plan her wedding?

For me the shock and immediacy of my own mortality being thrown in my face by the sudden death of both my parents would make me MORE likely to live according to God’s law, not less.

The Church probably won’t change 2,000 years of teaching on the subject because this one couple couldn’t think outside the box or find a better way to handle a rare situation.

Good points – I agree.

People need to learn to think outside the box these days – especially when “the box” (the world and its ways) is so anti-Catholic.

 

[stelline]

I am a single, chaste female in my mid 30’s. I own my own house and have a good job right now, but of course, none of us really knows what life will throw at us.

I’m currently dating someone, but if ever and whenever I do get serious or engaged, there is absolutely nothing that would make the risk worth cohabitating. NOTHING. The situation written about above… the cohabitation makes things worse, not better.

I say risk because it is very very risky. Temptation, scandal, communication delays, true self-awareness and evaluation of the other person, etc, etc, etc. If I lose my job and house, I’ve got friends and many many acquaintences that would lend me a space on their couch. Even 2 weeks living together previous to marriage is a falacy, even if completely chaste.

My boyfriend said something just a few days ago about us traveling together, if we did. He made the point that he would get a seperate/adjoining hotel room. He said this: Someday, if this works out to its intended goal, we will be able to look back on these decisions with pride, integrity, and no shame. Nothing to hide.

What’s the difference moving in 2 weeks prior to marriage, even if chaste? GRACE. Grace from the sacrament.

You have my admiration, agapewolf. Your boyfriend hit the nail on the head.

 

[EvelynEVF]

I suppose I should mention that a month before I married, I moved from another town. No point trying to find a sublease for only a month! A couple from my (Protestant, back in those days) church asked what I was going to do about the living situation. I told them I didn’t really know. My fiance was thinking of letting me have his house and him sleeping elsewhere. These dear folks were concerned that people wouldn’t be able to figure past the “me sleeping in his house” part, and offered me their guest room. For a month. With no hesitation whatsoever.

I ended up getting to know them very well and really enjoying the time. They even opened up their house to some of my out of town guests on the wedding weekend. They weren’t rich and didn’t have a giant house or anything. Bridesmaids slept on the floor in sleeping bags. It was a blast.

 

[whatevergirl]

I am a single, chaste female in my mid 30’s. I own my own house and have a good job right now, but of course, none of us really knows what life will throw at us.

I’m currently dating someone, but if ever and whenever I do get serious or engaged, there is absolutely nothing that would make the risk worth cohabitating. NOTHING. The situation written about above… the cohabitation makes things worse, not better.

I say risk because it is very very risky. Temptation, scandal, communication delays, true self-awareness and evaluation of the other person, etc, etc, etc. If I lose my job and house, I’ve got friends and many many acquaintences that would lend me a space on their couch. Even 2 weeks living together previous to marriage is a falacy, even if completely chaste.

My boyfriend said something just a few days ago about us traveling together, if we did. He made the point that he would get a seperate/adjoining hotel room. He said this: Someday, if this works out to its intended goal, we will be able to look back on these decisions with pride, integrity, and no shame. Nothing to hide.

What’s the difference moving in 2 weeks prior to marriage, even if chaste? GRACE. Grace from the sacrament.

He sounds like a keeper…but water does seek its own level , how blessed to have such a loving and caring boyfriend, agape!

 

[Liberanosamalo]

One practical reason against shacking up… (for those who don’t believe the Church is wiser than us on moral things) is that after a few years of watching things, I have come to the conclusion that inertia is the most powerful force in the universe.

Followed by entropy.

So you have a combination of things falling apart and people doing nothing about it.

Add in one house/apartment, stir.

For most people, the status quo is the default mode. It takes courage and energy to change things. People living together are more likely to tolerate bad behavior because to shove someone out and have no one to help with rent seems worse than going along to get along. And again, while you’re with someone in an apartment, someone else may walk right on by who may have taken a look at you if you didn’t appear to be in an overly committed relationship.

Try this one on for size: Yeah, you’re really neat! I want to date you. First let me break up with the guy I’m living with. Yeah… ummm. it was going nowhere.

How does that sound to a decent person? They don’t hear: Wow! She’s really into me!

They hear: Wow. She isn’t very faithful to a really committed relationship. I don’t want to get involved with someone who would cheat on someone they’re practically married to!

Practically married isn’t really married.

But someone who gets married even though things aren’t going so great because they think the piece of paper might make things better is kind of contradicting themselves. Lots of them acted in the beginning like a piece of paper didn’t matter.

Which is it?

Fact is, people behave differently in a situation in which there is an escape hatch. The guy in a rowboat without a life vest will be more careful than the guy who has one. You’re comparing people who really ARE committed to a relationship with people pretending to be committed. Totally different behavior patterns. Do you really learn much about someone who is playing pretend? Who may have a short-timer’s mentality?

It’s the difference between a renter and a homeowner. Which one will work harder to maintain it? And women are the ones who pay the price more. They’re feeding the commitment phobia that they complain about so much in men. Guys don’t have to grow up because they’re allowed to behave as if they’re footloose and fancy free for a decade longer than in the past.

It’s just not a good test for anything. You can live with someone for a decade and still remain in ignorance about things. Take it from me. I just found out something last week about my xh that I didn’t know for 21 years.

 

[wanner47]

FastLearner, I don’t think you have a very good idea about what scandal is or why it is bad.

From the CCC:

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

If a Catholic, not well informed about his/her faith, sees another Catholic living with their boyfriend/girlfriend prior to marriage, that Catholic may be led to believe that the Church is A-OK with premarital sex and cohabitation (since it may appear that premarital sex is happening between the two unless the pair in question have made it public that it is not happening). That Catholic, as a result, may begin living his own life of sin with his girlfriend/boyfriend. It may also give non-Catholics the false impression that the Church condones premarital sex/cohabitation.

ETA: The priest who married my sister and brother-in-law will not marry couples who are unrepentantly cohabitating prior to marriage. My mother (a lifelong Protestant) told me this, and she was appalled. I praised him to the skies.

Anecdotally, my brother and his wife cohabitated before marriage. Neither my sister nor I cohabitated with our spouses prior to our marriages. Currently, my brother and his wife are separated and contemplating divorce, whereas my sister and I have very happy marriages.

 

[stelline]

FastLearner

Here’s a note for your friends who you say are reading these threads:

Some Catholics knowingly commit grave sin time and time again. They freely ADMIT that they are wrong to keep committing the same sin over and over, and each time they do so they go to Confession and truly REPENT, and try to not fall into the same sin. Even if it’s a million times.

This is a practicing Catholic in action. When such a person dies REPENTANT, he/she will be welcomed into the heavenly kingdom.

Scenario #2

Some other Catholics knowingly commit sin, but instead of being humble and repenting, they are prideful and seek to justify their sinful actions. They even convince others to their same erroneous position so they don’t feel like they stand out. And if anyone dares to correct them–even the Church–they lash out in anger from their smothered guilt. The Church has the medicine for these souls, but if the Church waters down the medicine, it won’t cure anything.

This is an unrepentant Catholic in action. He/She refuses Christ’s offer of forgiveness. Don’t fall into this trap.

Your friend FastLearner claims that certain Catholics on this thread, by merely stating the** correct** Church stance on the sinfulness and scandal of cohabitation, are “directly preventing” you from returning to the Church.

People are NEVER prevented from returning to the Church by having the Truth presented to them. They have a free choice to accept the Truth and enter. Or, they can choose to reject it.

Your friend FastLearner gives us the impression that you are weak and shaky, and need the Truth watered down for you. I don’t buy into that garbage. That is for weaklings. You can be strong. Tell her you CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH.

FastLearner seems genuinely concerned for you, but she is also willing to put a basket over the truth to keep her conscience comfortable and protect you from what she perceives as undue guilt.

My prayers are with you.

FastLearner, you rely on your own personal logic to figure our moral dilemmas. You are not being constrained from speaking with orthodox priests or looking to the teachings of popes regarding this issue. Especially this age of information, you have no excuse to be ignorant of the Church’s teachings.

Scandal is a serious sin. I am amazed that Christ’s own words regarding scandal make no impression upon you. If he can’t convince you, I sure can’t.

Suffering and tragedy are not excuses to sin, as much as it would be convenient to think so.

I will not be engaging you anymore on this particular thread.

 

[Kit15]

I don’t get it. Are you saying unmarried people will acquire desires that only married people have *after *they get married? It seems to me if you like sex you like sex, and if you don’t you don’t. Being married or unmarried won’t change your desires just like that. Aging might, but that’s beside the point.

This is getting a little off topic but…there is actually some truth to this “acquiring desires after marriage” thing (though I wouldn’t have used those words to describe the phenomena). I know of many people who went through several sexless relationships before caving in…and then every single relationship that followed had to involve sex.

Even from personal experience: I do like sex but I never realized how much I liked it until I was married and was able to have sex. Before then my appetite was quite low and getting the urge was something the both of us were blessed enough to not feel that strongly. But if DH were to die young leaving me free to marry again if I found another man to love…it would be significantly harder to stay chaste than it was the first time around. Not saying it’s impossible…but it would be much more difficult.

It’s not really a matter of “like” vs. “dislike”. It a matter of not being hungry for something that’s never been tasted vs. having tasted and thoroughly enjoyed

 

[Serap]

One practical reason against shacking up… (for those who don’t believe the Church is wiser than us on moral things) is that after a few years of watching things, I have come to the conclusion that inertia is the most powerful force in the universe.

Followed by entropy.

So you have a combination of things falling apart and people doing nothing about it.

Add in one house/apartment, stir.

For most people, the status quo is the default mode. It takes courage and energy to change things. People living together are more likely to tolerate bad behavior because to shove someone out and have no one to help with rent seems worse than going along to get along. And again, while you’re with someone in an apartment, someone else may walk right on by who may have taken a look at you if you didn’t appear to be in an overly committed relationship.

Try this one on for size: Yeah, you’re really neat! I want to date you. First let me break up with the guy I’m living with. Yeah… ummm. it was going nowhere.

How does that sound to a decent person? They don’t hear: Wow! She’s really into me!

They hear: Wow. She isn’t very faithful to a really committed relationship. I don’t want to get involved with someone who would cheat on someone they’re practically married to!

Practically married isn’t really married.

But someone who gets married even though things aren’t going so great because they think the piece of paper might make things better is kind of contradicting themselves. Lots of them acted in the beginning like a piece of paper didn’t matter.

Which is it?

Fact is, people behave differently in a situation in which there is an escape hatch. The guy in a rowboat without a life vest will be more careful than the guy who has one. You’re comparing people who really ARE committed to a relationship with people pretending to be committed. Totally different behavior patterns. Do you really learn much about someone who is playing pretend? Who may have a short-timer’s mentality?

It’s the difference between a renter and a homeowner. Which one will work harder to maintain it? And women are the ones who pay the price more. They’re feeding the commitment phobia that they complain about so much in men. Guys don’t have to grow up because they’re allowed to behave as if they’re footloose and fancy free for a decade longer than in the past.

It’s just not a good test for anything. You can live with someone for a decade and still remain in ignorance about things. Take it from me. I just found out something last week about my xh that I didn’t know for 21 years.

What you wrote is presicely the reason I would give my daughter as to why I would not want her to live with her boyfriend. I really feel that women get the short end of the stick here. I’ve seen it so many times where the woman is distraught and desparate to marry her boyfriend and he’s digging in his heels b/c he’s already got it all without a committment. It’s easy for the man in this situation and very difficult for the woman. The woman has no leverage.

What I hated the most was how his sister treated me. She treated me like I was some kind of tramp living with her brother. She used to make snide comments about our arrangement. She would make me feel like I wasn’t family, and then she would turn around and expect me to act like a wife to her brother.

It was like we were family, but we weren’t. We were committed, but we weren’t. We were married, but we weren’t. I was expected to perform the duties of a wife, but I had no committment from him.

After 2.5 years of this arrangement, I was fed up and ready to leave. Luckily, my now husband really loves me and we have a wonderful marriage, but boy, did I take a huge risk by living with him and then threaten to leave. I’m just really lucky, but most women aren’t. My husband is totally against divorce and I’m relieved that he feels that way, given how things began.

I would never want to see my daughter go through that. A woman should never be treated like a second class citizen and that’s what living together can do to a woman. My husband didn’t intend to treat me that way, but I put myself into that position. I have no one to blame, but myself in the end.

I’m just very thankful that everything worked out in the end for us. We are now very happy and in-love with our new family.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

It’s bogus. And moving in with someone can be dangerous. What if he ISN’T a great guy. What if you learn that he’s an abusive person and you want to move out? What if he doesn’t want you to? Then you’re a prisoner. And you have to have a totally different way of getting out than if you were dating from separate houses.

This is a key reason, in my mind, not to cohabitate.

IANAL, but it seems like in this case, you do not have full legal protection of civil marraige. This can open up a large can of worms.

 

[Kit15]

My theory… the people who cohabit think that cohabiting helped them get to know each other better than if they didn’t. Because they made the decision to move in and play house relatively early in the relationship.

This woman couldn’t learn about Jeff’s bill paying routine by having coffee with him one afternoon as he wrote his checks and mailed them before they went out?

She never had him over to her apartment and saw him pitch in to help?

She never saw his anal retentive music collection classed by genre and subclassed in alphabetical order and figured things out?

She never went shopping with him and watched how he purchased things? Or looked at the kind of gifts he bought his mom on her birthday or how he spent money at restaurants or how he tipped the waitstaff?

She didn’t observe this constancy over a course of a year and realize it wasn’t an act?

None of what she wrote was stuff that an observant person couldn’t glean (and more) from watching him.

News flash: You can also learn more than you want to know about a man by the way he maintains his car. You don’t need to live in his car to figure out how he treats an expensive purchase and how responsible he is about getting it inspected and renewing his tags.

You can figure his cleanliness habits when he throws a fit because you dripped coffee on his arm rest. (And learn more about him if he reaches over the burn spot on your leg to wipe the coffee off his door.)

You can tell a lot about him by watching what he puts in the collection plate when you attend Mass with him. (Does he have an envelope? Did he actually JOIN a parish? Or does he fish out change and leave the $5 in his pocket.)

You can tell if he is kind by how he treats service people, waiters, and store clerks.

You can tell if he is honest by listening to him lie to his boss and claim he’s sick as you plan a day hiking the trails.

Can he keep a pet alive or a houseplant?

How he treats, children, dogs, beggars and anyone who can’t do anything for him will tell you more about him than living with him will.

It’s bogus. And moving in with someone can be dangerous. What if he ISN’T a great guy. What if you learn that he’s an abusive person and you want to move out? What if he doesn’t want you to? Then you’re a prisoner. And you have to have a totally different way of getting out than if you were dating from separate houses.

None of this even touches the morality of the issue of premarital sex and the attitude both people have of “I don’t have to be married to you to have sex with you.” That’s great! Now remember that when you’re married and he’s out late and you realize with a sinking feeling in your stomach that for years he told you by his actions that he was just fine with having sex with people he wasn’t married to.

Bad road test. Used car salesmen let you test drive lemons all the time.

Resurrecting an old post here but I wanted to get it in because it’s a good one.

Almost every person talked to outside the family regarding my engagement/marriage was like…utterly shocked that I had never lived with my boyfriend before we got married. “Really? Are you sure you don’t want to?” For most of them I’m sure it was because they were concerned for my well-being…wanted me to do the “test drive” and all juuuuust in case (though they didn’t use those terms).

But we didn’t. In the end it turned out I didn’t have to because when I finally moved in, there was *nothing * I suddenly learned about my husband that I didn’t know before or wasn’t expecting. For a while I could only shrug when people act surprised (positively) at how fast I adapted. I couldn’t place my finger on it and just chalked it up to time. “I’ve know the guy for 10 years…there’s nothing that surprises me about him anymore.”

But your post is the real reason why nothing was shocking to me…because I observed him while we were dating.

Don’t get me wrong, we certainly did want to live together and it was real a point of frustration for us because I can say with absolute certainty that we would not have had sex at the time (see post above about not being “hungry”). But I can also say with absolute certainty it wasn’t to “test-drive” the relationship.

We just wanted to get a head start on our marriage privileges because we were sick and tired of only seeing each other once a week and not being about to travel to places we wanted to travel to together. This “no scandal” business was *ridiculously *harder than “no sex”. It was also ridiculously more frustrating because we knew we weren’t going to have sex. “When I say ‘I can’t wait to sleep with you’, I mean that quite literally.” You have no idea.