Living with a Jehovah witness

[6857g]

Thank you so I remember that story from when I was a kid and I thought that the devil was talking about riches and popularity. Is that wrong? The JWs include those two but also that anyone that isn’t a JW is part of the devil, movies, sports, any type of entertainment basically. Also doesn’t God also probide his faithful servants with riches especially in the Old Testament?

 

[6857g]

Thank you so much for your story it help me have a little more faith that even though we are different in that aspect we can make out love grow. I will offer mass and rosaries, I already pray for him everyday. I appreciate you keeping him in your prayers. You have helped my heart heal a little more thank you so much and may God bless you always

 

[ajcstr]

I remember that story from when I was a kid and I thought that the devil was talking about riches and popularity. Is that wrong?

Well it says kingdoms and their splendor

Luke 4 also adds “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.”

The biggest thing about the temptations is that Jesus passed the tests that Israel failed in the desert.

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/view/Readon-the-temptations-of-jesus-and-the-disobedience-of-israel

 

[Crusader13]

My in-laws are DEVOUT Witnesses as well. My wife was brought up in their faith, but about 20 years ago her family stopped practicing their faith for several years and it was during that time that my wife all together stopped believing the teachings of the Society. About 6 years ago my in-laws started attending the meetings again and have since become more involved in practicing their faith. My sister in-law (wife’s sister) is also a devout witness and I think she’s stricter in her application of the Society’s teachings than her parents.

Your situation is a difficult one, but sadly not that uncommon. I’ve studied the teachings of the Society so I can see why my in laws believe what they do and I’ve even had bible study with my in-laws on occasion. I would love to tell you that there is one simple sure proof way to convert your husband and his family, but unfortunately this is not the case. The thing I’ve learned the most about Witnesses is that there isn’t one fool proof point of discussion that will work on every JW you come across.

Some people recommend focusing on Jesus and his Divinity, others will say you should bring up their failed end times predications or how their denial of Hell is incorrect and others may even recommend talking about their founder Charles Taze Russell and the origins of the Watch Tower. The fact is, no two witnesses will have the same reaction to these points. Obviously, they will deny them simply based upon what the Society has taught, but what I mean is, some topics may do more harm than good and others may seem to have more of an impact. You may need to see which arguments give your husband the most pause and instead focus on those. Trying to tackle several points at one time will have the least affect, pick one topic, and focus on that for a few days or a week and don’t deviate from that topic until you both agree to move on.

Remember, your husband and others may not want to watch certain videos or read material on their own because they view it as apostate literature and its influence is Satanical. You may have more luck since you’re his wife, but don’t get discouraged if at first, he doesn’t want to look deeper into your questions for himself. Also keep in mind that he may reach out to other witnesses for moral and theological support and if it seems like your questions are becoming too critical, they may encourage him to simply stop trying to dialogue with you and leave you be to your own assumptions.

 

[Crusader13]

It’s been my experience that the Watch Tower has learned to adapt and give answers to nearly every objection thrown at them. The failed End of the World predictions were simply an issue of misunderstanding, but “The Light is Getting Brighter”. The reason you don’t find concrete evidence of the existence of the witnesses in the early church is because “the weeds were sown in with the wheat until the time of the great harvest and the cleansing of the temple”. Their theology can be extremely complex, especially when talking about their Eschatology (End Times Teachings) and some brothers and sisters know it so well, they can debate even the most learned seminarian or graduate level theology student to a standstill.

You may feel like you’re consistently getting bested in your arguments and it may seem like you’re starting to doubt your own faith. (This happened to my wife several times. She agreed to do bible study with her mom and sister and got in over her head and as result ended up feeling confused and depressed because their arguments were so convincing that she didn’t know what to believe anymore.) Just remember to take it slowly and read up on the Church’s teachings for whatever topic you wish to discuss and don’t be afraid to admit that you don’t know an answer to a question. This site has great resources available for you and sometimes videos have more of an impact then trying to read and retain information that way. My wife prefers to watch talks rather then read material.

One gentleman I watched by the name of JT, has great videos on his experiences as a Witness. His videos give tremendous insight and explain the Society’s teachings in a way that makes sense and why they aren’t to be believed. Here’s the link to his YouTube channel. He’s not Catholic, but his information is nevertheless very helpful.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need more resources. Praying for you and your family. God Bless!

 

[pacloc]

I’m so sorry to hear about your scenario. I was a JW for a very long time, and still have my parents and siblings in the religion. I would seriously warn you from continuing to allow your children to be brought up in this dangerous cult. It is child abuse, that is not of yet criminalized, but very well could be in the future. They encourage children of the ages 10 or so to get baptized if they are ready. No 10 year old is able to make a decision that will most likely affect their relationship with their family for the rest of their life. If they realize the religion is false later in life, they will be shunned from all loved family and friends for the rest of their life if they choose to follow the shunning teachings of the watchtower. And more dangerous is the fact that they will be taught all kinds of lies about God, that could easily lead them to atheism, as it seems that many people that leave the JWs become.

 

[adf417]

He is basically saying that any person in my church would push me to convert him to Catholicism and would tell me that it’s wrong that I’m allowing him to be a JW. I know I sometimes don’t make sense so sorry hope this helps

Well there is some truth to that, properly nuanced. We all, including the JWs, believe we have the truth and we are told to “go out and spread the good news” and we have a responsibility to God to do just that. The difference is when a JW failes to convert you to their side they will walk away saying to each other “we did what we could that person will regret it come armageddon” vs when a Catholic fails to convert a person to our side the result is “we continue praing for them that God’s judgment will be merciful”. In the end The Catholic church can never condem someone to “hell” but the JWs do it freely or their version of “hell”.

Peace!!!

 

[Vico]

Hello vivo,
Thank you for your reply. So on 1john 2:15-17 can you elaborate a little more for me please…As for the “prince of this world” they see that everything in this world has conspiracies with the devil and I mean everything and everyone. Is this true? … About prosecution, does that mean they are Gods true people? … I just feel attacked all the time.
I would love to hear back from you and again thank you for your time.

You are welcome. I think the faithful are attacked all the time. If worldly things are more important that doing good as God wishes, then one falls into sin. Here is something from Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 15. If any man love the world, this wicked world, or any thing in it, as pleasures, riches, honours, so that his affections be more upon these then upon God, the charity of the Father (or of God) is not in him. (Witham)

It is the charity that one has that makes the difference, the possession of sanctifying grace. When one has that state of grace then there is participation in the life of God.

Catechism

1997 Grace is a participation in the life of God. It introduces us into the intimacy of Trinitarian life: by Baptism the Christian participates in the grace of Christ, the Head of his Body. As an “adopted son” he can henceforth call God “Father,” in union with the only Son. He receives the life of the Spirit who breathes charity into him and who forms the Church.

Jesus was very direct with the Pharisees in the Gospel of John 8:

37 I know that you are the children of Abraham: but you seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do the things that you have seen with your father.
39 They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham.
40 But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.
41 You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me:
43 Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word.
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
45 But if I say the truth, you believe me not.
46 Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me?
47 He that is of God, heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God.
48 The Jews therefore answered, and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered: I have not a devil: but I honour my Father, and you have dishonoured me.

 

[dallas_r]

Many others put this better than I could. In response to the Catholics supporting Hitler thing many people, even soldiers for hitler didn’t know that these people they were killing were inoccent due to propaganda. And, 54 percent of Nazis were protestants. Also my grandma who is also JW told me that they believe Jehovah is Yahweh

 

[6857g]

I kind of thought that. Plus my husband likes to use reverse psychology so I think that that’s what he is doing there. Last night he was talking about how the was preaching at work to some of his coworkers. He said that one guy mentioned that he used to go to church didn’t like how they passed around the basket, that they made it seem more like a business. This is something he had nagged about a long time ago when he went to mass with me once. How do I address this?
He also mentioned that right now they are studying that in psalms 147 it says to praise Jah, it reads:

147 Praise Jah!*
It is good to sing praises* to our God;
How pleasant and fitting it is to praise him!+
2 Jehovah is building Jerusalem;+
He gathers together the dispersed ones of Israel.+

They say they don’t know who wrote it but that that’s what the original bible says. Is that another name for Yahweh?
The Trinity is something he really does agree with and also mentioned last night. Do any of you guys know any verses that support the trinity? I have a feeling that that’s where I should start

 

[Vico]

…This is something he had nagged about a long time ago when he went to mass with me once. How do I address this? …
They say they don’t know who wrote it but that that’s what the original bible says. Is that another name for Yahweh? …
Do any of you guys know any verses that support the trinity?

• Contribute to the support of the Church in a precept of the Church. It is an act of charity.
• Psalms - Strong’s Condordence H3050: Jah (Jehovah in the shortened form).
• Trinity: Matthew 28:19, Genesis 3:22.

Matthew 28

18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Genesis 3

22 And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

 

[6857g]

Hi pacloc,
I wish I could just say " no you guys are not going to the Kingdom Hall with him anymore " but I feel like that would do more harm than good. The boys love him and admire him plus they love the attention he gives them during their studies. I let them choose, I told them that I would love them no matter what because when he told them that if they chose Catholicism he would no longer study with them or take them to the hall (scare tactics if you will) so I had no choice but to ease the choice for the sake of their little hearts. It wasn’t easy but they are only kids and they need to know that I will support them. That decision was so hard but do to my asking God for the Holy Spirit, that decision led to my husband letting me take the girls to mass and teach them about my faith. I talk to the four of them about my faith all the time. I try so hard not to argue and to lead with love because actions speak louder than words. I think I will set my foot down and ask that they not get baptized until they are considered adults, they were baptized as Catholics and my oldest did his first communion. I pray for them all the time.
As for the Holy name, yeah I know that but my thing is why if they agree that Jehovah is Yahweh, why don’t they use the one that is closest to be the true spelling and pronunciation? Is this is their efforts to be so different than the rest of the world? They always rave about how they are so different and how they stand out anywhere from the rest of the world

 

[6857g]

Oops sorry pacloc the last portion was supposed to be directed to dallas_r but please feel free to add your comment if you have any info that can help me.

 

[6857g]

Crusader13 thank you so much for the link I think my husband can benefit from this, hopefully he can have an open mind when watching these. I’m just scared that he will become atheist because at one point when he was disfelloshiped, he talked about how he didn’t think God existed and he talked about it all the time until one day I told him “God does exsist and you know it stop questioning it, he is always there for us we just chose to deny it. God will never deny you so stop questioning and denying him, when you do that you will find peace!” And then he stayed quiet and later thanked me. I see that when I actually build up the courage and speak up, I can get through to him but I am scared that I will somehow mess up.

 

[pacloc]

I wish you the best. As for the thing with Yahweh and Jehovah; they used the mistranslation Jehovah that was in English bibles at the time, a few places in the KJV and all over the ASV and other Bibles. They know now that Yahweh is a better way to translate the YHWH name, but because they have used the name Jehovah and it is known by everyone already, they choose to keep the poor translation. It really contradicts their whole, “if any part of it is connected to falsehood, it is wrong” mentality that they use on all other religious beliefs they attack. I think their use of the name Jehovah is one of the easiest things to logically show their hypocrisy. They pride themselves for being the only religion that uses the divine name to show they are the true religion, while all other false religions have “removed” the name from their Bibles. In reality, they are the ones guilty of changing the Bible, because they have inserted the name Jehovah into the New Testament 237 times, when they know that there is no reason to do so. The New Testament was inspired by God and yet the writers were not inspired to mention the name Jehovah or Yahweh, yet the Watchtower has felt it necessary. And Christ himself never mentions the name that they think is vital to being in the right religion, but instead emphasizes His own name, Jesus Christ.

 

[6857g]

Wow I never knew this about the New Testament. I learned something new today. Jesus is divine and we all know this. If he knew that God wanted us to use his name like just another regular old name then he would have mentioned it every time he spoke because out of all of God’s children Jesus Christ was the one that had every authority to mentioned out Heavenly fathers name as he wished.

 

[adf417]

He said that one guy mentioned that he used to go to church didn’t like how they passed around the basket, that they made it seem more like a business. This is something he had nagged about a long time ago when he went to mass with me once. How do I address this?

Im not sure i would but if i did i would say sure it is a business in some sense. We have to keep the lights on and water running. More importantly, the Catholic church really does not care if you give or not. It is only our conscience that make this difficult for us. I dont think anyone has ever been told they had to confess their non giving.

They say they don’t know who wrote it but that that’s what the original bible says. Is that another name for Yahweh?

Yes there are others too.

The Trinity is something he really does agree with and also mentioned last night. Do any of you guys know any verses that support the trinity? I have a feeling that that’s where I should start

There are many and you can search “Trinity” here - https://www.catholic.com I will pray you dont get into a interpretation war. It is common to bring up scripture simply to have the other tell you your interpretation is flawed which is why ive always felt that arguing the authority of who should be interpretating the scriptures.

Peace!!!

 

[misstherese]

I recommend the Youtube video by Ascension Presents (Fr Mike Schmitz) on Hell. Very informative. Hell has to exist otherwise all our efforts and struggles here on earth are worthless and no one would try as hard to be good because there are no consequences. Similar to how a parent must chastise a child for doing something wrong, Hell must exist for those who do wrong to God. And since God is infinite, and his mercy is infinite, so must his justice be. The pain of Hell cannot be infinite (thats impossible), but the duration can.

I also recommend The Dogma of Hell by Father Schouppe. Best book I’ve read.

 

[adf417]

I would like to add something important to this if I may.

When it comes to JWs and the divine name they refute themselves. In the 1971 Watchtower publication of “Aid to Bible Understanding” pg 882-885 shows they already knew these things.

pg 882 “Jehovah is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name…”
Pg 885 “Since certainty of the pronunciation is not now attainable, there seems to be no reason for abandoning in English the well-known form “Jehovah” in favor of some other suggested pronunciation.”

They place such importance on the divine name because it is one of the tools effective on getting the attention of “non-believers” but they never preach the above ambiguity.

Peace!!!

 

[adf417]

Oh! you asked about verses that support the Trinity. I referred you to the link of Catholic Answers which will give many but I found another one just the other day I wanted to share that can still be found in the NWT bible.

Ps 49:3-4 & Ps 78:2 the term “my mouth” is used referring to God’s mouth. Then read Ps 78:2 which states:

I will open my mouth in a proverb. I will propound riddles of long ago

Again referencing God opening His mouth in proverbs but in this vs they have footnotes referencing Mt 13: 34-35. which states -

34 All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds by illustrations. Indeed, without an illustration he would not speak to them,+ 35 in order to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet who said: “I will open my mouth with illustrations; I will proclaim things hidden since the founding.”

Im pretty sure they will be removing this reference mark before long if not a complete rewrite.

Peace!!!