Living with a Jehovah witness

[6857g]

Little background and then for my inquiries.
I have been married for two years. We have two sons (his stepsons) and two daughters.When we met I knew he was a JW and he knew I was a catholic. Coincidentally my sons dad was also a JW. My husband is a very smart, witty, likes to talk a lot, very caring and sweet. Anyways when we were dating he loved that I was devoted to my faith and served as a cathecist, he even told me he would marry me in the church (it sadly never happened) he did go with me to mass a few times, although I felt he’d go with a closed mind and only criticized, he even went to my sons first communion mass, during all this he got disfelloshiped, this caused him so much hurt since he couldn’t talk to his parents or anyone in his congregation. I felt so bad and guilty for his having to go through that and I encouraged him to go back so that he wouldn’t feel so alone and guilty for leaving his sick mother. He had turned into someone I never would have imagined, I couldn’t bare it anymore so to get him to turn himself around I started to encourage his goings to the JW meetings, he went a few times and stopped going because he felt awkward and alone. So I told him that I would go with him if he liked and he was so happy to hear that. I would go with him as often as I could,and I stopped going to mass. The people there were very nice but to be honest I didn’t feel at home. I felt like God was missing there, I didn’t feel close to God at all when I would be at the meetings, at times I felt irritated and confused because they would very subtly throw dirt at Catholicism and some things that they talked about made God sound so mean. My husband was finally allowed his privileges back and we started doing family study with the boys, at this point I wanted to tell my husband that I didn’t want to go/study with the JWs anymore but I didn’t have the courage as I felt it would break his heart. One night during the family bible study My husband was going through the “what can the Bible teach us” book and I remember he read something that made me question YHWH’s exsistance and I felt ashamed. And then I couldn’t focus, after that night I was so angry all the time I think I went into depression because I had some terrible suicidal thoughts, the arguments started between us, I wouldn’t talk to him and if I did it was very blunt. One terrible argument saved me and I finally said I would no longer attend/study with the JWs. Things only got worse as he started bombarding me with all types of anti catholic comments and anger fits. He has mentioned a bunch of things that bother me
Below are a few:
• The Bible says that this world is a pile of garbage, does anyone know if this is true? If God created this world why would he say it’s a pile of garbage?
•Thedevil is the ruler of this system of things. Is that so and where in the Bible does it say it?
•They say that they are being prosecuted and therefor they are the true people of God/Jehovah since it is writes in the holy scriptures. Is that true? Aren’t other religious groups also prosecuted
•That Catholics supported Hitler in the prosecution and execution of the JWs during the 1930s, is that so?

 

[adf417]

…He has mentioned a bunch of things that bother me
Below are a few:
• The Bible says that this world is a pile of garbage, does anyone know if this is true? If God created this world why would he say it’s a pile of garbage?
•Thedevil is the ruler of this system of things. Is that so and where in the Bible does it say it?
•They say that they are being prosecuted and therefor they are the true people of God/Jehovah since it is writes in the holy scriptures. Is that true? Aren’t other religious groups also prosecuted
•That Catholics supported Hitler in the prosecution and execution of the JWs during the 1930s, is that so?

Welcome to CAF and I am so very sorry to hear your story. You seem to be on of those children of God who will always put others feelings and needs above your own. I earnestly pray for you!

To address some of your questions:

1. Gen 1:31 - “God saw all that he had made, and it was very good” but im sure if someone who wants to they could find a passage somewhere else that wouls seem to contradict this. It happens all the time.
2. 1Jn 5:19 says “We know that we belong to God, and the whole world is under the power of the evil one.” which is why we are to live in the world but not of the world - Jn 17:14-15
3. They are being prosecuted? I read your story and it sure seems to me you are and there are a multitude of stories similar to yours. Im sure they are being prosecuted also on a certain level which is certainly not ok but aren’t we all? What makes their own prosecution any more relevant than when the 1st JW accused the Catholic church of “__________” fill in the blank. Again I dont want to minimize what the world has done and does to this group of people, but if they say the church went apostate then we really need to start at that point to determine where the real persecution began.
4. Historical Dishonesty - Hitler
   
   More on other misconceptions about the Catholic Church

Peace be with you!!!

 

[6857g]

Thank you so much for your reply adf417 and so soon. I appreciate the time you took. This has given me some peace of mind. I was also able to vent a little as I feel I have not many people to talk to. I do feel prosecuted by the man that should love me unconditionally, please keep my family and I in your prayers. He has mentioded that
•the apocryphal books as they call it, are not inspired and they are not part of the Bible. So every time I use a passage from the Bible to help him ease his mind from a problem he may have, he asks “is that verse from the Bible or from those extra books” it breaks my heart
•Hell was invented by catholic priests to scare people into submission.
•God doesn’t do miracles anymore and the saints are pagan because we pray to them for miracles and he says that venerating them is the same as worshiping them, is that so?
Some of these points I have looked up and know that they are false teachings, but would like to see your opinion.
On the deuterocanonical books I didn’t even know they had an issue with until one day I asked God for guidence and looked at the Bible online and read a few verses that spoke to me in sirach I wish I could remember the verse. The point is that those verse from that book were what I believe were sent to me by the Holy Spirit because as soon as I read it I felt so much peace. When I told him about the verse and the book it came from but not how I felt before and after I found it, he stopped listening and said that that book wasn’t inspired that the Catholics added it but it has never been part of the Bible. If that is so why do I feel that was my Heavenly Father giving me a hug with those words and telling me everything was going to be alright?
Sometimes he makes me feel as if I’m speaking and praying to the devil and not to my Heavenly Father, yet he always claims to be inspired by the Holy Spirit when he asks God for help.
I hope I didn’t lose you or ramble on too much, I just need to some assurance that I’m not ask evil and crazy as he makes me feel.
Thank you and God bless

 

[jcrichton]

Hi!

This is what St. Paul Taught:

6:14-18 Do not harness yourselves in an uneven team with unbelievers. Virtue is no companion for crime. Light and darkness have nothing in common… (2 Cor)

The warning is clear; Believers are to be yoke together with Believers.

• The Bible says that this world is a pile of garbage…

The closest I can recall is this:

4:10-13 …we are insulted and we answer politely. We are treated as the offal of the world, still to this day, the scum of the earth. (1 Corinthians)

Though I do not recollect every passage, there could be passages that would allude to such definition from the stand point of God–‘no one is just not even one.’

•Thedevil is the ruler of this system of things. Is that so and where in the Bible does it say it?

Sadly, the Jehovah Witnesses are blind that lead the blind away from Salvation… they have manipulated the Word of God (actual Bible translations) and the interpretations of the Word of God so that their flawed theology can make sense to them… they miss the Truth (Christ) right from their own “version” of Scriptures:

14:30 I shall not talk with you any longer, because the prince of this world is on his way. He has no power over me,

16:11 about judgement: proved by the prince of this world being already condemned. (St. John)

Jesus clearly states that the world’s system is under a prince’s (Satan) manipulation–that Satan has no power over Him.

•They say that they are being prosecuted and therefor they are the true people of God/Jehovah since it is writes in the holy scriptures. Is that true?
Aren’t other religious groups also prosecuted

The Catholic Church is the most persecuted Christian entity worldwide; non-Catholic Christians are persecuted as well; yet, there are other religious groups that are also persecuted. Persecution is not a test of being the true Church of God.

The true test is being persecuted because of being a Christian, those in Fellowship with Christ–the Jehovah Witnesses are not in Fellowship with Christ.

•That Catholics supported Hitler in the prosecution and execution of the JWs during the 1930s, is that so?

That’s anti-Catholic propaganda. The Jehovah Witnesses are kin to use information that they believe support their causes, even if that information is false; they are also kin in rejecting information that makes them out to be false prophets…

Here’s a link for you to study:

Jehovah’s Witnesses worshipped Jesus until 1954, after which they were told such worship was idolatrous. (http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/worship-jesus.php)

You can research other sites where it is proven that they are a false Christian religion.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hi!

The problem with non-Catholics (which includes the JW) is that they reject the Church Founded by Christ.

They will do anything to place themselves as the Church of God; yet, they reject Christ’s Word.

The Biblical Canon did not take place in the sixteenth century; it happened way back in the fourth century. It is based on the Septuagint, the version of Scriptures that Apostles used:

The Septuagint (from the Latin septuaginta, “seventy”) is a Koine Greek translation of a Hebraic textual tradition that included certain texts which were later included in the canonical Hebrew Bible and other related texts which were not. As the primary Greek translation of the Old Testament, it is also called the Greek Old Testament. This translation is quoted a number of times in the New Testament,[1][2] particularly in Pauline epistles,[3] and also by the Apostolic Fathers and later Greek Church Fathers. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint)

This Canon only became an issue when Luther, a Catholic Monk, rebelled against the Church and began his own “church” (we know how that turned out, thousands upon thousands of schisms). Interestingly enough, the version that they support is the version which anti-Christian Jews claim as their “correct” version; so they side against the Church Christ Founded in favor of anti-Christians (go figure).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[adf417]

You are welcome and i wish i could say it will get easier but it doesn’t. You mentioned “venerating the saints is the same thing as worshiping them”. This “worship” thing is the most hurtful thing that comes from the JW whom we have personal relationships with. Their understanding of worship is not the same as ours. Actually it is but only if they are comparing their JW worship to another JW’s worship. But when i try to explane my worship, which is supposed to be “in spirit and truth” Jn 4:24, and therefore very personal, they tell me they know better that my worship is not what i say it is. Even when i quote from their own literature that “only God knows true worship” they still insist they know better. This is very heatbreaking when we are trying to have a personal relationship with someone we love. Its not as big a deal if it is a neighbor that tells you this but when your spouse or mother tell you this it hurts. I wish i could tell you how to deal with this. If you gain any insight please pass it on to me.

As far as the deuterocanonical books i have had no luck there either. On the other hand I think the 27 books of the NT, which are comon to both yours and his, is an area in which can possibally be logically shown first and then subsiquently linked to the deuteros. The logical progression goes like this:

The JWs agree that in the 4th century there was not 100% agreement in which books are included in the NT. They published a document showing this and I can get it to you if you need but it is not at my fingertips at this time. This document showed that the main figures in the church agreed to MOST of the books but not all and some of these people even list other books to be included. Now if they all were not 100% in agreement how did you, me, and them end up with the same 27 books in our NT’s. The answer is, the early church councils. The next logical question is - what is the councils and who makes up these councils? The answer is - bishops in the Catholic Church.

Now to you and me this is logical and easy to follow but for a JW, and any other non-Catholics, there will always be diversions deflections which come in the form of anti-Catholic rhetoric.

Peace!!!

 

[superblue]

I guess this is one reason why inter-religious marriages don’t always work .

You are probably better off just telling him that he is too close minded to understand anything and to not bring it up any more because all he is doing is offending you, or tell him to go talk to a priest that can put up with him.

 

[Vico]

• The Bible says that this world is a pile of garbage, does anyone know if this is true?
If God created this world why would he say it’s a pile of garbage?
•The devil is the ruler of this system of things. Is that so and where in the Bible does it say it?
•They say that they are being prosecuted and therefor they are the true people of God/Jehovah since it is writes in the holy scriptures. Is that true? Aren’t other religious groups also prosecuted
•That Catholics supported Hitler in the prosecution and execution of the JWs during the 1930s, is that so?

I.

1 John 2:15-17

15 Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, is the concupiscence of the flesh, and the concupiscence of the eyes, and the pride of life, which is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the concupiscence thereof: but he that doth the will of God, abideth for ever.

II.

John 12

31 Now is the judgment of the world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Fr. John Hardon wrote:

“Now is the judgment of the world; now will the prince of the world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself.” Now He said this signifying by what death He wants to die (Jn 12: 31-32).

“I will no longer speak much with you, for the prince of the world is coming, and in me he has nothing. But He comes that the world may know that I love the Father and that I do as the Father has commended me” (Jn 14: 30-31).

“I speak the truth to you; it is expedient for you that I depart. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go I will send Him to you and when He has come He will convict the world of sin, and of justice, and of judgment; of sin, because they do not believe in me; of justice, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no more; and of judgment, because the prince of this world has already been judged” (Jn 16: 7-11).

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Demonology/Demonology_003.htm

III.

Jesus said his disciples would be persecuted.

John 15:18-25

18 If the world hate you, know ye, that it hath hated me before you.
19 If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember my word that I said to you: The servant is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you: if they have kept my word, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things they will do to you for my name’s sake: because they know not him who sent me.
22 If I had not come, and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
23 He that hateth me, hateth my Father also.

 

[De_Maria]

Below are a few:
• The Bible says that this world is a pile of garbage, does anyone know if this is true?

This is not true. He may be referring to a verse in Isaiah, when God was angry at unbelievers and Isaiah said that their sins were like dirty rags:

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

If God created this world why would he say it’s a pile of garbage?

He didn’t. He said:

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Thedevil is the ruler of this system of things. Is that so and where in the Bible does it say it?

Yes, its true.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

•They say that they are being prosecuted and therefor they are the true people of God/Jehovah since it is writes in the holy scriptures. Is that true? Aren’t other religious groups also prosecuted

Catholics are the true people of God. Jesus Christ only established one Church:

Matthew 16:118 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The Jehovah Witness group was established by a fellow named Charles Taze Russell in the 1870’s. Charles Taze Russell was a known con man.

Before he got his religious career well underway, Russell promoted what he called “miracle wheat,” which he sold at sixty dollars per bushel. He claimed it would grow five times as well as regular wheat. In fact, it grew slightly less well than regular wheat, as was established in court when Russell was sued. Later he marketed a fake cancer cure and what he termed a “millennial bean” (which a wag has said probably got that name because it took a thousand years to sprout).

History of the Jehovah's Witnesses | Catholic Answers Tract

•That Catholics supported Hitler in the prosecution and execution of the JWs during the 1930s, is that so?

No. The Catholic Church was the biggest thorn in Hitler’s side. No one did more than the Catholic Church against Hitler. Not even the Jews.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-church-the-nazis-and-the-facts

This website claims that the JW’s were in bed with Hitler.
http://www.bible.ca/jw-hitler.htm

 

[6857g]

Hi superblue,
Yeah it’s very tough especially when you’re married to someone that is always looking to be right and praised. I have told him that many times but he is insistent. I think it’s because in the way he was thought I have no salvation unless I am one of them. Even one of his elders who grew up with his parents in a similar situation has told him that in order for us to live in harmony he must not talk about religion but he just won’t let it go.

 

[6857g]

Hello vivo,
Thank you for your reply. So on 1john 2:15-17 can you elaborate a little more for me please. Because I see that the JWs see this as all non JWs are of the world and being controlled by Satan. I Satan. I in the other and correct me if I’m wrong but think that this means you should still love everyone yet that doesn’t mean you do as they do because some people don’t do as God wants us to.
As for the “prince of this world” they see that everything in this world has conspiracies with the devil and I mean everything and everyone. Is this true? I always thought that the devil roamed around tempting, deceiving, manipulating, and hurting people but not that everyone was evil because we were in the devils government. Again please correct me if I’m wrong.
About prosecution, does that mean they are Gods true people? I feel prosecuted by my own husband for my beliefs, even thought I believe that my beliefs make me a good human being, I have lots to improve obviously but I think I love God and want to do right by him. I don’t believe i am chosen or anything I just feel attacked all the time.
I would love to hear back from you and again thank you for your time

 

[6857g]

Sorry I just realized your name was wrong. I’m on my phone and you know they do their own thing with autocorrect. So sorry about that Vico

 

[6857g]

Thank you so much De_Maria you have given me some more wonderful information I have looked at the links and its help understand some things. I will collect these verses that you have provided me with to help my family get closer to God.

 

[6857g]

Thank you adf417,
What my husband did was look up the meaning online and he decided that that’s what it was the same thing and I was not prepared to explain this to him so I just listened to him, but with this I can work on helping him understand with the guidence of the Holy Spirit. I have noticed that they only take the information that suites them in bits and pieces even though the whole thing makes more sense, it’s just the way they are programmed.
Something he said yesterday as Sunday’s are always the toughest because he seems to hate that I go to mass. He said that his elders tell him that it’s alright that I’m a catholic and that he doesn’t need to worry about me not converting but that no one Catholics will tell me that it’s ok that he’s a JW and they would want him to convert no matter what. Is this true? I think that this way of thinking of his is why he’s always making the same assumption about me, that I hate that he is a JW and that the boys are studying plus that the girls will too(the girls are 2yr old and 7months). But I don’t think that way. I love them and respect their decisions like I tell him every time… “i respect you all and I will support you in anything that makes you a good person and brings you close to God. just like you’d love and prefer that we all be JWs, I would love and prefer you all be Catholics too but I do not try to impose it upon you like you so ruthlessly do to me.” I can see what you mean about it not getting any easier. So I pray to God for strength and I ask that anyone who reads this keeps my family and I in your prayers.

 

[KatyCatholic]

Just a bit of friendly advice, as a Catholic evangelist, I’ve found that it is very often the case that people reject the Church based on what they think they know, regardless of if it’s right or not.

Also, if there is a moral code that the Catholics have and an individual doesn’t like that one code, he or she, will often, very often, almost every time, find something else about the Church and attack that. For example, if I like to have pre-marital sex and the Catholic Church says there are no fornicators in heaven, then as a fornicator, I’m going to reject that one aspect of the Church and find all kinds of other stuff that I don’t like about the church because it won’t let me be and do whatever I want to do.

There’s that famous quote, forgot who said it, it’s spreads around and changes a bit, but goes something like this … “in the last two thousand years, 100 people have left the church for what it actually stands for, the rest leave based on what they think it stands for even if they are wrong about the truth”

I am in a convalidated, natural marriage. As a baptized catholic, I married a Buddhist! I had no idea! It’s been years, almost 10 years of our marriage. I didn’t really think anything about it, just kept going to Mass, bring the kids along, love, live, and sacrifice. After some years, without even realizing it, my wife turns to me one day and says “that thing you have with you and your brother, I want that” … she’s in RCIA this year!

Pray for your husband so that the Spirit will move within him.

Offer rosaries.

Offer Masses, go to as many as you can during the week, have it in mind and pray specifically for your husband to respond to the Spirit.

Bite your tongue, hold back your hand, remember to love beyond what you think you can. There is nothing more definitive than the love in action you can practice, just like the Spirit is “love in action”. One day, you’re husband shall turn to you and say “how do you find the strength to love so much? I want that too!”

I shall say a prayer for your husband as well, I always need an identity to pray for specifically, thinking God will know who Mr. 6857g is, LOL.

 

[ajcstr]

I can address 2 off the top of my head:

The devil is the ruler of this system of things. Is that so and where in the Bible does it say it?

Adding to 1Jn 5:19 see Matt 4:8 when Jesus is tempted in the wilderness:

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

Their interpretation is that how could the devil offer Jesus these things if they were not in his possession?

They say that they are being prosecuted and therefor they are the true people of God/Jehovah since it is writes in the holy scriptures. Is that true? Aren’t other religious groups also prosecuted

Yes - I would say the Catholic Church is being persecuted also for its beliefs on human life, marriage and sexual orientation issues.

Yes - they are persecuted pretty badly also. They are banned from proselytizing in Russia and have had many a door slammed in their face. Now taking that to the next step of saying that this proves they are the true people of God/Jehovah is certainly a stretch. They would also claim that the door to door evangelizing is a sign because Jesus will find them working when he returns.

 

[adf417]

He said that his elders tell him that it’s alright that I’m a catholic and that he doesn’t need to worry about me not converting but that no one Catholics will tell me that it’s ok that he’s a JW and they would want him to convert no matter what.

Not sure what you mean by the bolded part of this statement. Can you clarify?

Peace!!!

 

[ajcstr]

There’s that famous quote, forgot who said it, it’s spreads around and changes a bit, but goes something like this … “in the last two thousand years, 100 people have left the church for what it actually stands for, the rest leave based on what they think it stands for even if they are wrong about the truth”

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

 

[6857g]

He is basically saying that any person in my church would push me to convert him to Catholicism and would tell me that it’s wrong that I’m allowing him to be a JW. I know I sometimes don’t make sense so sorry hope this helps

 

[KatyCatholic]

I wouldn’t worry about “conversion” so much, even if there are other parishioners who want to convert, advise them that the Holy Spirit is about the only thing in the world that can affect true conversion. We are participants, instruments, guides, and helpers for those who seek the Spirit.

When it comes to people, one person might be right and another wrong but both hold true. Instead of using “right” and “wrong”, let’s use words like “truth” and “fullness of truth”.

In my humble opinion, it would be wrong to NOT let your husband continue on his journey, even if it has to go through JW’s. There are so many folks with so many wonderful stories and they all seem to wander, meander, and wiggle through many of the world views, but as one seeks the one true truth, he or she will always end up being Catholic as it is the fullness of truth.

Keep pressing on! The Spirit resides in you, let Him work through you and trust that all will work out for the greater good.