Living with partner

[nabroc]

After an 11 year marriage my wife left me for another man. Following a divorce I I met my current partner (2 years later) and we have been together now for 4 years. My new partner is divorced and not catholic. I love her very much and we both have great kids from our previous relationship. I would very much like to get married but she doesn’t want to until I finish my studies. I have 3 years to go on a Psychology doctorate.

My question is am I committing sin living with my partner? It doesn’t feel wrong and I believe that God may have had something to do with me meeting her in the first place.

Many thanks,

Nabroc

 

[meh56]

The only way you are not committing a sin, is if you live as brother and sister. NO SEX what so ever.

 

[1ke]

I would very much like to get married but she doesn’t want to until I finish my studies.

Now would be a good time to meet with your priest and begin discussions of whether or not you both have grounds to file petitions for nullity.

Neither of you are free to marry.

My question is am I committing sin living with my partner?

Yes.

Specifically the sins of adultery and scandal.

It doesn’t feel wrong

“Feelings” are subjective. God’s law is not. When we “feel” something is right but it is against God’s law, we are attempting to rationalize and need to step back and conform to God’s law.

Just because you don’t “feel” it’s wrong doesn’t mean it’s not.

and I believe that God may have had something to do with me meeting her in the first place.

Maybe. But, your relationship will not be blessed by God if you do not honor him and his Law. Sexual intimacy outside marriage is sinful. Living together is as well. You are both already married from the Church’s standpoint, so before you plan any future together you need to see your priest and look into annulments.

 

[1ke]

The only way you are not committing a sin, is if you live as brother and sister. NO SEX what so ever.

There is also the sin of scandal which is present in this situation.

 

[nabroc]

I can understand the argument that if I was to cheat on my partner I would be committing adultery. We have made a commitment to each other to remain faithful to one another. If I was to go behind her back with someone then I feel that would be dishonest and there should be consequences. However, I don’t see why two people who are not in a relationship and have not broken up a relationship should be told they are committing a sin. I feel that God does not deal in simple black and white situations. I do not feel that I am committing adultery. I am unfamiliar with the sin of scandal. Can someone tell me more about it and where it originated? Many thanks, Ian

 

[kage_ar]

Are both of you free to marry?

Civil divorce does not mean a Catholic is free to go date and remarry. You can ask your Priest to begin the process of having your marriage investigated. The Tribunal may find you were not validly married and give you a decree of nullity.

If that happens, you could start dating.

If that does not happen, you are still married in the eyes of God. Having sex with someone other than your spouse is adultery.

If both of you are found to have had invalid marriages, and you have sex before you are validly married, you are committing the grave sin of fornication.

Go see your Priest, get to Confession and get your life back in fellowship with God.

 

[Faith_Alight]

First of all… you need to talk with you priest about this…

Secondly, as a person who is just a sinner saved by grace, I have to tell you that what you are doing is wrong and even though it doesn’t feel wrong, it is. Only God can hold you accountable for this and I have no say in it…

But I do know that the teachings of the Church and Scripture specifically go against your current situation.

I will remember you in prayers and hope you will realize that God loves you so much that He wants to forgive you…

 

[whatevergirl]

I can understand the argument that if I was to cheat on my partner I would be committing adultery. We have made a commitment to each other to remain faithful to one another. If I was to go behind her back with someone then I feel that would be dishonest and there should be consequences. However, I don’t see why two people who are not in a relationship and have not broken up a relationship should be told they are committing a sin. I feel that God does not deal in simple black and white situations. I do not feel that I am committing adultery. I am unfamiliar with the sin of scandal. Can someone tell me more about it and where it originated? Many thanks, Ian

That’s the problem with ‘feelings,’ they will steer you wrong. True, God is all merciful, but His commandments are black and white. If you are a practicing Catholic, then you know that sleeping with another person outside of marriage, doesn’t matter if you love her or not…is a sin. It is a sin because God doesn’t want us doing things that He intended for marriage, outside of it.

I think that talking things over with a priest would be a good idea. I echo the other posters telling you that. You are also not free to date, or remarry, if you have not had your first marriage annuled. I know that it all sounds harsh…you love this woman, and she loves you. But, it is not acceptable in God’s eyes, to be living and sleeping with a woman you are not married to.

You also have to think about the example it sets for the kids involved. They will most likely mimic what they have been witness to, when they get older…living with people they are not married to.

So, on many levels, it’s best to probably either live like brother and sister–or get separate residences. But, please see a priest–together–and see what you find out for yourselves. God bless!

 

[nabroc]

Many thanks for the replies. I guess I am struggling with the idea that I might be committing adultery. My first marriage was a civil marriage as my wife was already divorced. I have never been married in a church. However, I took the marriage very seriously, saw it as a lifetime commitment and was not the one to leave. I would never have had children with her if I thought for one minute that she would leave. I also raised her daughter (who was 2 when we wed) as my own and she calls me her dad. Looking at any dictionary definition I don’t appear to be committing adultery (as I’m divorced). Can someone point me at scripture that says what I’m doing is wrong? Many thanks, Ian

 

[Della]

I can understand the argument that if I was to cheat on my partner I would be committing adultery. We have made a commitment to each other to remain faithful to one another. If I was to go behind her back with someone then I feel that would be dishonest and there should be consequences. However, I don’t see why two people who are not in a relationship and have not broken up a relationship should be told they are committing a sin. I feel that God does not deal in simple black and white situations. I do not feel that I am committing adultery. I am unfamiliar with the sin of scandal. Can someone tell me more about it and where it originated? Many thanks, Ian

First off, welcome to CAF! I want to commend you for being upfront about your situation and for being committed to your current partner. Honesty and faithfulness are both great virtues.

On the other hand, we cannot make ourselves exceptions to God’s laws. If we all did that there’d be complete chaos. Indeed, I firmly believe the idea that whatever I want takes precedence over the good of society is why we see many families being torn apart. Anyway, God has our ultimate good in mind when he says “No you may not.” But, he’s not primarily a God of the negative but is overwhelmingly the God of the positive. Living as he would have us live is the way to true happiness, inner peace and joy which no earthly circumstance can destroy.

Scandal is a sin because it gives others excuse to also sin. Jesus was quite specific about this when he said that those who tempt others to sin are in the worst condition–he used the expression “woe unto them.” Pretty strong words for causing scandal. He seldom used that expression except for those sins he thought the worst.

What you really want is to live in love, happiness, and contentment with a wife and children. God wants that for you too. He simply wants you to have that life in all its fullness and love, with the freedom to be united to your loved ones in purity, with no hindrances to your love. Trust God and look into getting your situation on track. It might be hard and take time but it will be worth it in the long run to be able to be free of sin–to be able to look forward to an eternity of love with him and your loved ones forever in heaven.

 

[Della]

That’s the problem with ‘feelings,’ they will steer you wrong. True, God is all merciful, but His commandments are black and white. If you are a practicing Catholic, then you know that sleeping with another person outside of marriage, doesn’t matter if you love her or not…is a sin. It is a sin because God doesn’t want us doing things that He intended for marriage, outside of it.

I think that talking things over with a priest would be a good idea. I echo the other posters telling you that. You are also not free to date, or remarry, if you have not had your first marriage annuled. I know that it all sounds harsh…you love this woman, and she loves you. But, it is not acceptable in God’s eyes, to be living and sleeping with a woman you are not married to.

You also have to think about the example it sets for the kids involved. They will most likely mimic what they have been witness to, when they get older…living with people they are not married to.

So, on many levels, it’s best to probably either live like brother and sister–or get separate residences. But, please see a priest–together–and see what you find out for yourselves. God bless!

 

[whatevergirl]

Many thanks for the replies. I guess I am struggling with the idea that I might be committing adultery. My first marriage was a civil marriage as my wife was already divorced. I have never been married in a church. However, I took the marriage very seriously, saw it as a lifetime commitment and was not the one to leave. I would never have had children with her if I thought for one minute that she would leave. I also raised her daughter (who was 2 when we wed) as my own and she calls me her dad. Looking at any dictionary definition I don’t appear to be committing adultery (as I’m divorced). Can someone point me at scripture that says what I’m doing is wrong? Many thanks, Ian

ANOTHER THOUGHT…and this is secular in nature…why does she want you to have your doctorate before marrying you? Let’s say everything else was on the up and up…why would that matter, if your partner loves you?

 

[nabroc]

I understand what people are saying about seeing a priest. My partner would not be up for that suggestion as she is not Catholic and has a lot of misgivings about the Catholic faith. I have some sympathy with her views and would not want to try to force her into anything she didn’t want to do.

 

[nabroc]

Sorry I may have mislead about the Doctorate. It isn’t the title she is concerned about. I have a very long story about losing lots of money etc etc that I won’t bore you with now. My partner has helped support me financially getting back on my feet. I have now managed to get a full bursary for my course but I won’t be back on a good salary for a couple of years. She simply wants me to be in a position where I can pay for half of the wedding. I also want to pay for half myself too. Thanks, Ian

 

[kage_ar]

Here is Scripture for you…

Matt. 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18 - Jesus says that whoever divorces and remarries another commits adultery. This is an offense against the natural law.
Rom. 7:2-3 - again, Paul reiterates Jesus’ teaching that sacramental marriage followed by a divorce and remarriage is adultery. He who commits adultery destroys himself. (Prov. 6:23). Many Protestant denominations have rejected this teaching of Jesus and His Church.
1 Cor. 7:10-11 - once again, Paul gives Christ’s teaching that married couples cannot divorce and remarry. This violates God’s divine plan for the husband and wife.
Matt. 5:31-32 - the Lord permits divorce only for “porneia.” This Greek word generally means unlawful sexual intercourse due to either blood relations (also called incest) or nonsacramental unions. The Lord does not permit divorce for “moicheia” (adultery). It is also important to note that in these cases, a marriage never existed in the first place, so the Lord is not actually permitting divorce, but a dissolution of the unlawful union.
Eph. 5:22-32 - Paul says that the sacramental union of husband and wife is the image of Christ and the Church. Just as Christ the Bridegroom and His Bride the Church are inseparable, so are a husband and wife also inseparable. A civil divorce cannot dissolve a sacramental marriage (between two baptized people).
1 Cor. 7:12-15 - these verses set forth what the Church calls the “Pauline privilege” - two unbaptized people marry, and afterwards one of the people is baptized. If the unbaptized person decides to leave the marriage, the Christian is free to remarry (because the first marriage was not sacramental, and a union between a baptized and an unbaptized person can jeopardize the baptized person’s faith).
Ezra 10:1-14 - these verses support what the Church calls the “Petrine privilege” - a baptized person marries an unbaptized person. To save the baptized person’s faith from being jeopardized, the Pope may dissolve such a marriage pursuant to his binding and loosing authority.
Rev. 19:9 - the marital union of man and woman reflect Christ’s union with the Church at the heavenly marriage supper. Just as Christ and the Church have become one flesh through the Eucharist and the union brings forth spiritual life for God’s children, a man and a woman become one flesh and their union brings forth physical life for the Church. This union is indissoluble.

scripturecatholic.com/divorce_remarriage.html

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/images/horbar.gif

 

[1ke]

I can understand the argument that if I was to cheat on my partner I would be committing adultery.

You misunderstand.

If you and she are sexually active, you are committing adultery right now. You and she are already married to other people.

 

[whatevergirl]

Sorry I may have mislead about the Doctorate. It isn’t the title she is concerned about. I have a very long story about losing lots of money etc etc that I won’t bore you with now. My partner has helped support me financially getting back on my feet. I have now managed to get a full bursary for my course but I won’t be back on a good salary for a couple of years. She simply wants me to be in a position where I can pay for half of the wedding. I also want to pay for half myself too. Thanks, Ian

hi again nabroc;

no problem…just trying to understand your situation better.

Relating back to you being Catholic…I guess it all boils down to how important your faith is to you, at this point in your life. If you choose to be a devout Catholic and really want to take a deeper dive into the CCC, then you will need to stop living with her–or live with her without having sex, which if you have begun that–will be hard to overcome (not impossible but tough) if you remain living together.

That’s the key. (It’s really that simple) If you’re trying to develop as a mature Catholic, you will have to cease some of your behaviors. If you choose to live as a lukewarm Christian, then continue your behavior as is. I say this, because my dh and I have been there. We lived as lukewarm Catholics, and you don’t realize how wrong it is – when you’re living like that for so long. We got married by a JOP 17 years ago, but had our marriage blessed in the Catholic Church about 4 years ago. We were not permitted to receive the Eucharist, while we waited for our marriage blessing day, by the priest. It was very hard, but following Christ is not an easy ‘mission.’ We are now married in the eyes of the Church–and what a blessed feeling it is.

So, being with someone who doesn’t appreciate perhaps, or want to grow with you in the same faith, as your partner…just know, there will be problems along with this. So–you are faced with a choice. If you choose to become a devout, practicing Catholic–you have to forfeit your old “comfortable” ways, even if it means finding a new place to live, or asking your partner to live elsewhere. This is regardless of her faith or ex’s or previous marriages. We are not to be having sex outside of marriage–this is not just a Catholic teaching.

Seeing that she has now paid for part of your schooling…sigh…that is going to be hard to ask her to find some place else to live, or you to depart and find another residence. This is why we don’t combine checking accounts, and buy houses together, and on and on–until we’re married.

You should have brought this to us two years ago! LOL We could have saved you a lot of headache and heartache.

I think you know what to do…in your heart and conscience…you know following Christ, will not be easy, and you know what you need to do with this situation. The question is…will you follow that gut instinct? (aka Holy Spirit trying to guide you)

I would never come before you in judgement. I have made enough mistakes to surpass the pages in the webster’s dictionary (well, maybe not that many) but enough to know that following Christ’s teachings–no matter how tough they might be at times–is so much more fulfilling, than following my human ‘feelings’ any day.

Pray about this…and let God guide you. Be open to change and the possibilities that come with it.

God bless!!

 

[Cagrl]

hi again nabroc;

no problem…just trying to understand your situation better.

Relating back to you being Catholic…I guess it all boils down to how important your faith is to you, at this point in your life. If you choose to be a devout Catholic and really want to take a deeper dive into the CCC, then you will need to stop living with her–or live with her without having sex, which if you have begun that–will be hard to overcome (not impossible but tough) if you remain living together.

That’s the key. (It’s really that simple) If you’re trying to develop as a mature Catholic, you will have to cease some of your behaviors. If you choose to live as a lukewarm Christian, then continue your behavior as is. I say this, because my dh and I have been there. We lived as lukewarm Catholics, and you don’t realize how wrong it is – when you’re living like that for so long. We got married by a JOP 17 years ago, but had our marriage blessed in the Catholic Church about 4 years ago. We were not permitted to receive the Eucharist, while we waited for our marriage blessing day, by the priest. It was very hard, but following Christ is not an easy ‘mission.’ We are now married in the eyes of the Church–and what a blessed feeling it is.

So, being with someone who doesn’t appreciate perhaps, or want to grow with you in the same faith, as your partner…just know, there will be problems along with this. So–you are faced with a choice. If you choose to become a devout, practicing Catholic–you have to forfeit your old “comfortable” ways, even if it means finding a new place to live, or asking your partner to live elsewhere. This is regardless of her faith or ex’s or previous marriages. We are not to be having sex outside of marriage–this is not just a Catholic teaching.

Seeing that she has now paid for part of your schooling…sigh…that is going to be hard to ask her to find some place else to live, or you to depart and find another residence. This is why we don’t combine checking accounts, and buy houses together, and on and on–until we’re married.

You should have brought this to us two years ago! LOL We could have saved you a lot of headache and heartache.

I think you know what to do…in your heart and conscience…you know following Christ, will not be easy, and you know what you need to do with this situation. The question is…will you follow that gut instinct? (aka Holy Spirit trying to guide you)

I would never come before you in judgement. I have made enough mistakes to surpass the pages in the webster’s dictionary (well, maybe not that many) but enough to know that following Christ’s teachings–no matter how tough they might be at times–is so much more fulfilling, than following my human ‘feelings’ any day.

Pray about this…and let God guide you. Be open to change and the possibilities that come with it.

God bless!!

Whatevergirl, very well put. I completely understand what you are saying. I too used to live as a lukewarm Catholic and was living with my dh(who was my fiance) at the time. When I decided to live out or practice my catholic faith, I started to come across many challenges and cohabitating was one of them. Dh also wanted to wait for me to finish school before we got married. I was growing in my faith and my conscience/gut(Holy Spirit) was really talking to me. I took it to my dh at the time and we decided to live as brother and sister for many many months until our wedding day. And you are right…at the time I didn’t really see anything wrong with the way I was living until I started to let God into my heart and life. Now, I can say that we are married through the church and we are very blessed. It was the best thing (and the hardest) we could have ever done. But very rewarding!

Op, I am praying for you. I also think that this is a way of God trying to talk to you and get your attention. For this to have come to your mind is because He is touching your heart and trying to guide you on the right path.

 

[nabroc]

Many thanks for the non judgemental and straight forward replies. You have certainly given me some things to think about. I spent three years training as a person centred counsellor which actually brought me back towards my faith although it posed as many questions as it answered. I take on board everything you have all said.

From a slightly different angle, I recently watched a couple of series on UK TV. One was call tribe where a person goes and lives in different remote communities for a month at a time and one was called tribal wives with a similar format. How do you feel God would view the people in these communities. Many have multiple wives, in some it is recognised that the people in the marriage can have extra marital partners, the marriages make no reference to a God of the bible and in some societies divorce is acceptable. I feel strongly that I should respect other cultures and their traditions. However, from a Catholic viewpoint, if I was to visit one of these tribes, surely I’d be expected to try to instil my values on group members?

Thanks again, Ian

 

[kage_ar]

Ian -

The Catechism gives us a quick reference (with links to more detailed Scripture and Church documents)

If you go to this link scborromeo.org/ccc.htm and type in “polygamy” you will find all references.

Here is one

**2387 **The predicament of a man who, desiring to convert to the Gospel, is obliged to repudiate one or more wives with whom he has shared years of conjugal life, is understandable. However *polygamy *is not in accord with the moral law." [Conjugal] communion is radically contradicted by polygamy; this, in fact, directly negates the plan of God which was revealed from the beginning, because it is contrary to the equal personal dignity of men and women who in matrimony give themselves with a love that is total and therefore unique and exclusive." The Christian who has previously lived in polygamy has a grave duty in justice to honor the obligations contracted in regard to his former wives and his children.