Local bakery owner refuses to make gay couple's wedding cake

[Borealis]

Your right to religious free exercise does not extend to the market place?

Not when it comes to Christian cake bakers, apparently. I’m sure the gay couple would have had more success if they had gone to a Muslim baker instead.

 

[Borealis]

That is not the way it was done.

Yes, it was. People had the right to go to any business…and those businesses had the right to refuse service for whatever reason. Some of those reasons were valid (abusive customers, for example). You wouldn’t go to a Jewish delicatessen and ask for a ham sandwich, would you? Well, some people today would do exactly that, and complain when they were refused. Mind you, those people definitely wouldn’t go to a Muslim delicatessen and ask for a ham sandwich. Because racism, or something.

And yes, religious reasons are a perfectly acceptable reason to not provide service. Socially? Perhaps not, but no one has the right to tell a business owner they have to provide a service for an occasion that offends their beliefs. And yes, that applies to all religions. When you let people make their own choices in what businesses they will patronize, the good businesses will thrive, and the ones people find reprehensible will not.

Leftists cannot permit the free market to operate unhindered, because it eliminates the most important form of control: economic. Free markets are completely antithetical to leftists, who cannot compete in that same market and seek to control it instead. It turns everything into a ‘civil rights’ issue when it is nothing of the sort. That’s why Obamacare is the Holy Grail of leftists, and why they are hell-bent on preventing any stoppage in illegal immigration. Importing millions of unskilled, unemployable bodies alters the makeup of a society that was built on the premise that everyone has the freedom to make the life they choose through hard work. Suddenly, there is an entire generation of college students who truly believe that it’s impossible to succeed because society is evil.

Leftism is worse than a mental disorder; it’s a Satanic tool to destroy freedom and Christianity in one fell swoop.

 

[abucs]

What are my sins?

The historic racist sins of the Democratic Party and their new sins of trying to blame this on Republicans and their racist politically correct white privilege agenda.

 

[dvdjs]

The historic racist sins of the Democratic Party and their new sins of trying to blame this on Republicans and their racist politically correct white privilege agenda.

Oh. You had said “your sins”.

 

[dvdjs]

Yes, it was.

Your saying so does not change reality.

 

[abucs]

Oh. You had said “your sins”.

If you identify with the Democratic party and support the divisive political correctness of identity politics, including ‘white privilege’ and are trying to shift the historic racist tag onto Republicans then they become your sins.

The Democratic support for civil rights in the 1960’s was basically an acceptance of the implementation of the Republican position dating back to the 1860’s that they had been resisting and opposing for 100 years.

 

[dvdjs]

If you identify with the Democratic party and support the divisive political correctness of identity politics, including ‘white privilege’ and are trying to shift the historic racist tag onto Republicans then they become your sins.

Aside from the historical nonsense being spewed, this is a very, very big if to jump over.

 

[abucs]

Aside from the historical nonsense being spewed, this is a very, very big if to jump over.

Well tell me that you don’t identify with any of that then and we’ll go on our way.

 

[dvdjs]

Well tell me that you don’t identify with that then and we’ll go on our way.

I identify as dvdjs.
I think that the narrative of

divisive political correctness of identity politics, including ‘white privilege’ and … trying to shift the historic racist tag onto Republicans

is alt-right nonsense.

 

[Sophie_Lawrence]

It’s generic in the sense that it just has words on it.

No depiction of a man and a boy.

And let’s say that this boy is of the age of consent, so it’s legal.

Would you make a cake for this celebration?

I’m actually trying to figure out if by providing a cake is direct cooperation with someone else’s sin.

It isn’t the same scenario as refusing to actually celebrate a gay marriage for religious reasons.

If the cake is exactly the same cake that a Catholic couple would have, or a couple in an irregular marriage would have, and hasn’t been personalized that just looking at it I don’t know it’s for a gay couple. Then honestly I’m not sure if it is cooperating with the sin of another.

The NAMBLA cake is different because it specifically says NAMBLA on it, so it does seem to me to have a message that is more obvious. I guess similarly for a KKK cake.

I used to see a NFP only doctor. I understand why he refused to provide abortions and contraception prescriptions. But if he had he’d be directly participating in the sin of another.

You mentioned as well a female ordination. If I’m a baker, and an Anglican woman came in for a cake for her ordination should I refuse? Or an Anglican man? As Catholics we don’t see either as being valid.

 

[abucs]

I identify as dvdjs.
I think that the narrative of
is alt-right nonsense.

do you think the politically correct rhetoric of ‘white privilege’ as an excuse to treat people differently by race is nonsense?

 

[PRmerger]

I’m actually trying to figure out if by providing a cake is direct cooperation with someone else’s sin.

Me, too.

I’m not quite sure how I feel about it.

But the question remains: would you make a cake for a NAMBLA celebration, if it didn’t have any pedophilic themes on the cake, and just said some words on it about NAMBLA celebration.

The NAMBLA cake is different because it specifically says NAMBLA on it, so it does seem to me to have a message that is more obvious.

How is printing some words on a cake different? It’s also…morally neutral.

I guess similarly for a KKK cake.

So you wouldn’t make a cake for a KKK celebration, if you had to write “KKK” on it?

 

[lmachine]

To put this in perspective a lot of the people defending the “free market” would be perfectly fine with a business refusing service to a black person. They seem dismayed at the way society is going; I say it’s headed in the right direction now that we don’t have whites-only establishments, and that those protections are being incrementally extended to LGBT people.

 

[dvdjs]

do you think the politically correct rhetoric of ‘white privilege’ as an excuse to treat people differently by race is nonsense?

I think the perspective on contemporary efforts to advance racial equity and social justice reflected in your posts is nonsense.

 

[abucs]

To put this in perspective a lot of the people defending the “free market” would be perfectly fine with a business refusing service to a black person. They seem dismayed at the way society is going; I say it’s headed in the right direction now that we don’t have whites-only establishments, and that those protections are being incrementally extended to LGBT people.

I understand that Imachine but I think it is going in the wrong direction. As unpalatable as it may be I prefer the government to stay out of the morality of business as much as possible.

If a business owner does not want to do business with a certain person then let it be. We will both go and do our business with the people who don’t hold views that we agree with and I have confidence that people’s power will achieve a much better outcome without the dangers of an oppressive state.

 

[abucs]

I think the perspective on contemporary efforts to advance racial equity and social justice reflected in your posts is nonsense.

another deflection. What do you think of the recently introduced concept of ‘white privilege’ and how it is being used to divide people based on race? Simple question.

 

[EasterJoy]

another deflection. What do you think of the recently introduced concept of ‘white privilege’ and how it is being used to divide people based on race? Simple question.

Please don’t tell me that someone actually said that the concept of “white privilege” is something new, LOL. I would be astonished if the President hasn’t been hearing it his entire life.

 

[gracepoole]

The problem with this Imachine is twofold
]

1. It is dictatorial. It is saying that unless you agree with the state sponsored morals then the state will dictate which businesses you are not allowed to participate in

It is not dictatorial. The bakery can choose not to use public services. What it CAN’T do is use the electricity, for example, that’s supplied by the community and then determine who in the community it can discriminate against. Bakeries that do not want to bake wedding cakes for same-sex couples can choose to get out of the wedding baking business or agree to serve those who are permitted to legally marry.

 

[Sophie_Lawrence]

Me, too.

I’m not quite sure how I feel about it.

But the question remains: would you make a cake for a NAMBLA celebration, if it didn’t have any pedophilic themes on the cake, and just said some words on it about NAMBLA celebration.

How is printing some words on a cake different? It’s also…morally neutral.

So you wouldn’t make a cake for a KKK celebration, if you had to write “KKK” on it?

Words aren’t morally neutral, though. I probably would decline. As I would a NAMBLA cake. And if a gay couple wanted a cake with gay themes and imagery, i would decline

I honestly don’t know about being a baker that makes 5 types of wedding cakes depending on filling size and design, and a couple is asking for the one of the 5 types of cake I provide for others.

My local supermarket makes cakes with photographs copied onto sugar paper. Would they be required to copy all pictures brought to them? I assume that they have policies against pornography or violent images.

I’m older, but I remember making a hotel reservation for my sister and myself and telling the woman taking the reservation that if the queen bed room was the only one available, we could share. I was informed that they were a family run hotel. They mistook my sister and myself as a lesbian couple.

 

[SuperLuigi]

If you identify with the Democratic party and support the divisive political correctness of identity politics, including ‘white privilege’ and are trying to shift the historic racist tag onto Republicans then they become your sins.

The Democratic support for civil rights in the 1960’s was basically an acceptance of the implementation of the Republican position dating back to the 1860’s that they had been resisting and opposing for 100 years.

Their acceptance was hardly genuine. They needed the votes and may have been the only reason LBJ signed the law in the first place.

I can assure you that most of these leftists don’t care one bit about minorities and would not give one cent of their own money to help.