Local churches, in Northern Ireland, draw up plans for priestless Masses

[He_Man]

Maybe it is time we started to allow Catholic priests to marry. God didn’t forbid it.

Do you have any evidence that indicates this would change a thing? Your theory would indicate there has been a Priest shortage since the Church was founded. In fact, the shortage is a recent trend, with its beginnings in the liberal misinterpretations of Vatican II.

You don’t just suggest sweeping changes without some actual evidence to support them.

 

[markomalley]

Some of the Holy Apostles had been married,and I think it was St.Paul who mentions in one of his letters about a bishop being married.It was not derogitory,but discussed a bishop’s duties I believe.Celibacy was not required really until later on, though there were various moves to make it manditory. Eventually it was. And it maybe that part of it was due to the Cathars, whose leaders, the parfaits(in French),or perfects in english went out
and traveled in pairs and preached to the people,and the women taught and nursed the sick, and often gathered together in groups to form their version of a convent if you will. Most ordinary people felt they were holy and good christians, as their lives contrasted with that with many of the clergy, and I’m not talking about any married priests that might have been around.There were plenty back in the Middle Ages who drank,chased women, amassed lots of money from benefices,etc. and were supposed to be celibate.

I don’t know how much clearer I could make this: a married person being ordained – OK. An ordained person getting married. Not OK.

Or to put it differently: married first, ordained second: OK. Ordained first, married second: not OK.

Unless, of course, you have an example of an apostle getting married AFTER they were ordained by Christ.

 

[iloveangels]

Since I, as an Eucharistic Minister (Extra-ordinary Minister of Holy Communion) have already served as the minister (?) of a few Communion Services in our small, rural parish (one priest, two Deacons) when a Deacon was unable to serve, I can’t help but believe this may become more common in areas with few priests. I’m sure it always has happened in many mission settings. Over the years, I have also led a “Holy Hour” of the Exposition and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament three times now. Nothing special in me, I’m just more willing than some other “EMHC’s” to stand up in public and lead prayers. Any lay person can do this and it would be only ignorance of the parish members if they are “confused”. In my case, I always introduce myself, describe my role as filling in for a Deacon, and tell the group to consider making themselves available for this work. I don’t deliver homilies (though I have commented on some historical fact of the Gospel). The Deacon’s service takes about 25 minutes, with homily, and mine take about fifteen (if I remember the Lord’s Prayer before communion).
I would add that here in the Southwest, the early missionaries trained people to do just this because of the months between visits by a priest.

You won’t see me. I don’t go to lay-led “Catholic” services. Sorry.

When you no longer have Sunday mass, you no longer have a Catholic church in the area. It’s pretty much that simple.

 

[tom2f]

to ilovangels & others.

I did not ask for the position, the events took place over about three years, in each case it was a missing deacon at a weekday (always communion) service, and I never “delivered a homily”. At one service I mentioned the historical sense of the culture after saying “I can’t and will not be delivering a homily, but last night I read this about the culture of that time”.
As I mentioned earlier, I told the people that we needed them to consider doing what I was doing, as at least four of them were also EMs and lectors. The expositions were years apart and under two different circumstances, in both cases filling in for a missing deacon; once during Lent a few years ago and once during a week of Adoration we occasionally have now. Yeah, we should have more priests, deacons, and active lay people. But what if not?

 

[zenith15]

Tom, I think you are doing a blessed and Church-sanctioned thing and I applaud you for stepping up to help in this manner. Just because on the rare sunday in a small parish there may be no priest or deacon, doesn’t mean it is not a Catholic church. We have a very large parish, with two priests and 5 deacons, and had it happen twice during the summer that no one was able to lead a service, and it was led by an EM and made clear it was not a mass.

Keep up the good work, and may God bless you.

 

[Tigg]

The lines were blurred many years ago between the ministerial and the common priesthood. I still see, on occasion, lay people distributing communion in the nursing homes, giving the Trinitarian blessing and laying hands on the foreheads of the sick. Let’s not be confused here. If there is a severe priest shortage in some areas then let it be a penance for us with an urgency to plead our cause before the Blessed Sacrament that the Lord may raise up more young men to work in His vineyard…instead of us thinking we can alleviate the situation by laity crossing the boundaries and disregarding church documents. Without our priests…there is no Sacrifice, no Mass…and no Catholic Church.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Readers services are common in Orthodox mission parishes where they do not have a regular priest and can only be serviced by a priest from time to time. Of course they do not call it Divine Liturgy. If there is a Deacon, they can then have Communion (in the Eastern Rites, only the ordained can handle Sacred Vessels) if there is a neighboring parish that can consecrate the bread and wine for them.

But many parishes do this for years before they finally get a priest assigned to them.

 

[yukonbrad]

The lines were blurred many years ago between the ministerial and the common priesthood. I still see, on occasion, lay people distributing communion in the nursing homes, giving the Trinitarian blessing and laying hands on the foreheads of the sick. Let’s not be confused here. If there is a severe priest shortage in some areas then let it be a penance for us with an urgency to plead our cause before the Blessed Sacrament that the Lord may raise up more young men to work in His vineyard…instead of us thinking we can alleviate the situation by laity crossing the boundaries and disregarding church documents. Without our priests…there is no Sacrifice, no Mass…and no Catholic Church.

There have been rules regarding sevice with no priest available for years and as for distributing communion any duly designated person (by the bishop) may do this, they just can’t bless the hosts nor of course hear the confession of the sick and dying etc. I am amazed at the confussion this has caused in this thread - not every hospital chaplian is a priest or deacon and so forth.

As for your parish having 2 priests - please, please, please convince one to come up here to the Yukon! We are getting there (3 new priests have been installed this past month) but we still need about 3 more to ensure some semblance of coverage for all the missions in the diocese.

 

[Pilgrim1701]

There have been rules regarding sevice with no priest available for years and as for distributing communion any duly designated person (by the bishop) may do this, they just can’t bless the hosts nor of course hear the confession of the sick and dying etc. I am amazed at the confussion this has caused in this thread - not every hospital chaplian is a priest or deacon and so forth.

You know that, I know that, and everyone here probably knows that.
The fact is, in a country that exported priests until very recently, where priests did everything, until very recently, where every parish had a priest (usually more than one) until recently, the lay population in Ireland, generally speaking, don’t know all the ins and outs, because they didn’t need to know. The situation is changing, and lay people are only beginning to find out what a lay person may legitimately do in the absence of a priest because until very recently the absence of an available priest seemed unimaginable.
The situation is now reversed. Like I say, this is going to be something of a culture shock when it begins to hit home. The average age of a priest in Ireland is 64, and only 6 priests were ordained for the whole of Ireland last year.(Ecclesiastically speaking, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland fall into the one national church)
irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0608/1224317501202.html
Fast forward those trends 5 years? 10 Years when those ‘average’ 65s have retired?
Read to the bottom of the article for a survey of Irish Catholics on their faith. You may understand why things like this are confusing and perhaps disconcerting.

 

[estesbob]

Nothing radical or new; many parishes with priest shortages have been doing it for years and it is approved by the Church.

Article gets a out of a possible for sensationalism.

We have a Woman leading our Monday communion servicec every other week. Like the man who leads on alternate Monday’s she gives no sermon and we go directly from the Gospel to the Our Father. I am thankful to be able to receive the Eucharist because of her commitment.