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Volodymyr_988
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Paralabagne
Guest
Regarding this thread, I have my own ideas about Islam and its logic of violence:
I find myself agreeing that Islam is a very violent religion as evidenced in many lines of the text of the Koran. I admit that I have read and studied much this book and have a theory that it was written as an answer to the “otherness” of the Old Testament, an “if the Jews are chosen at our expense, then we can be chosen at theirs” sort of thing.
The Koran – and this is only my interpretation – could be surmised to have been written as an attempt to unite the Arab world. In another sense, that Muhammed is purported to have married a Persian (see Shiite), further lends credence to my theory in that he meant to unite the whole region.
On the other hand, the world in which Muhammed was writing was a far different world than we have today and, unfortunately, we (Christians and Jews) appear to be the other against which Muhammed united his groups. If this is the case, I fear the ultimate answer.
I find myself agreeing that Islam is a very violent religion as evidenced in many lines of the text of the Koran. I admit that I have read and studied much this book and have a theory that it was written as an answer to the “otherness” of the Old Testament, an “if the Jews are chosen at our expense, then we can be chosen at theirs” sort of thing.
The Koran – and this is only my interpretation – could be surmised to have been written as an attempt to unite the Arab world. In another sense, that Muhammed is purported to have married a Persian (see Shiite), further lends credence to my theory in that he meant to unite the whole region.
On the other hand, the world in which Muhammed was writing was a far different world than we have today and, unfortunately, we (Christians and Jews) appear to be the other against which Muhammed united his groups. If this is the case, I fear the ultimate answer.
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MelanieAnne
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It is written in scripture that you will “know” people by their “fruits” ~ in other words, you will know how people are by the way they behave.
Too many Muslims today think that violence is RIGHT to achieve their desired result. Even those that don’t actually practice violence, in very large numbers, APPROVE of violence done in the name of Islam.
No greater proof that Islam is a false religion needs to be presented. There is no logic, there is no true religion in Islam as practiced by such persons.
Too many Muslims today think that violence is RIGHT to achieve their desired result. Even those that don’t actually practice violence, in very large numbers, APPROVE of violence done in the name of Islam.
No greater proof that Islam is a false religion needs to be presented. There is no logic, there is no true religion in Islam as practiced by such persons.
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BelFarfalla
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I absolutely agree with you. I can understand why Arabs view Muhammad as a great man… he brought them out as a force in this world. From that point of view he was a great man in the same light as people such as Alexander the Great. Many who we look back into history and call great men were war lords and responsible for the death and suffering of untold thousands if not untold millions. Muhammad is really no different from those men.
Right again… Muhammad set his people against the pagans, Jews and Christians. It’s not to say that especially the pagan did not see him as a threat and hence tired to roust him out.
But what followed and is on going today is an attempt for Muslim (read Arab) supremacy world wide. This is why all Muslims learn Arabic… to arabize the world.
As a people they have not learned yet the concept of live and let live. Not to many others in this world have either. But they are pushing against this concept even in places where it is we entrenched.
There is a simple fact that all non-Muslims have to deal with . Islam divides the world in two… The world of Islam and the world of war. Anyone who is not a Muslim is automatically in the world of war. If someone calls me their enemy, I will take them seriously.
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Onesimus
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Could you make any more blatant attempt to avoid the obvious?Would you really want a god who would die for you? That seems like a weakness.
Any drooling buffoon with a rock can kill.
But giving life to the dead: that’s REAL power!
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AllahsLove
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Please go to www.turntoislam.com or www.islamtoday.com for some MUCH NEEDED advice on this topic. There are SO MANY misconceptions on this site and that you are handing out, one dont know where to begin.
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BelFarfalla
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You would begin one topic at a time.
I see that people are reading here and copying our posts on other sites. Seems that addressing us here would make much more sense.
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Paralabagne
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I don’t understand this post. Please see “Crossing the Threshold…” to see how the Koran is a “reduction in revelation.”
Or, simply, present an argument against which I can retort. However, I’m of the mindset that any argument presented to me in the name of Allah will entail my changing my mind or dying, i.e. “I can kick your butt, so I’m correct.” But I hope that I am wrong.
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BelFarfalla
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Here is how the game is being played. I posted the below quote on this forum. Instead of addressing me, someone copies it and gives me the name “other side”. Then someone on that site answers… this is very ‘clever’ as by playing the game this way I don’t get a chance to make my point.
So here we go…
Poof that old Qur’ans that do not match the current ‘original’ were found in Yemen….
Rare manuscripts found in al-Jaami’a al-Kabeer
http://www.yobserver.com/front-page/10011866.html
http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/quran1.html
It is simple, variant ancient versions of the Qur’an have survived from the first years after Muhammad’s death. They are not identical to eath other or to the version of the Qur’an that is considered the ‘original’ today. Hence no one even knows which of the Qur’ans is the original.
To the person calling himself “newmuslim2”. Ok so you don’t want to post here but take the posts from here to other sites… realize that the this site is the home of Catholics. The site owners have this good forum where we can speak to people of all religions. This is good. But instead of coming here to our home and showing us respect… Muslims have been coming here, attacking our religion and accusing us of all sorts of things. We are answering back to the attacks. My response about the original version of the Qur’an was in resposne to a Muslims who is trying to destory MY religion.
My suggestion is that you read the links I posted above. Read the answer you got on the other forum. Then go out and find as much information as you can find on the topic. **Then make up your own mind. **
I undertand why you might not want to post here… it gets brutal… that is because there is alot of freedom of speech here. CAtholics do not execute apostates like Isalm does. So allowing differing oniions adn open discussion is ok here. Most Muslim forums do not allow that. Instead they delete anything that questions and challenges Islam.
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GOP
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Islam is something I’ve been studying from 09/11/2001, and you mentioned something about throwing stones in glass houses? Well, Islam is from what I have learned, just a religion made up by Muhammad to get what he wanted. He made up his religion just like Joseph Smith did back in the 1800’s for his own pleasures.My friend who is Muslim is at my house today and not surprisingly he starts making backhanded comments about “kafir” beliefs once his conversation with my roommate drifts toward them in some way. (they were talking about pork, don’t ask)
My roommate, who should know better than to talk to brick walls anyway, brings up how in the OT God probably told them not to eat pork for the health reasons/people not knowing how to cook it thoroughly enough… etc. Of course this is most likely true but my Muslim friend doesn’t see it that way.
And now (this is SOOO clever
Sorry had to get that out of my system
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Paralabagne
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Hang on. We made it up; we make it up; and we will continue to make it up. But, there is the question of quality, consistency and logic. Hopefully, there is also love and, therefore, I ask: Which man was the most true to the latter? He died with arms wide open childless, and from what we know, wifeless, possessionless and shoeless. He died loving his murderers. This is the difference. Love your enemies was, is and will always be what separates us.
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Onesimus
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While I in no way disagree with your assertion, I believe you should apply your impressive abilities to investigating one further aspect of Islam that further defines its relations to everything non-muslim; that cardinal of sins: pride.
What other vice can drive a man to claim the Bible is corrupt because of supposed contradictions while hiding his own doctrine of “abrogation?” He’s not just lying to you…he’s lying to himself!
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Hellisreal
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I consider the bible to be living because it is God speaking WITH man as opposed to God speaking TO man.
He used flawed humans to help us along the way.
When he was here amoung us in the flesh, he still chose men, flawed men to be in authority, not a text.
Glory to God in the highest, and peace to his people on earth
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Renton405
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Christ said he was the truth… hence the christian is the right one…
After John the Baptist the prophets stopped… Everyone that comes after Christ who claims to be a prophet will be a false prophet…
Mohammed never gave any miracles to prove his prophethood either like Jesus did and Elijah…
Those who deny the Son deny the Father… the mohammedians deny Jesus as the Son… hence they deny the Father… Hence there are heretics…There are nothing but a revision of the divinity heresies that came earlier like the Arians and the followers of Marcion…
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exoflare
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You could try responding to posts yourself, instead of trying to pass the buck to some other website, for one thing!
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BelFarfalla
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Very good point… this is one of the major reasons isn’t it?
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BelFarfalla
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Well said… :tiphat:
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Paralabagne
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I have to admit that posts like that which I’ve quoted above seem somehow as frightening as some of the Muslim arguments. Blanket statements such as “Christ said he was the truth…” mean nothing to me and seem highly illogical. And who in the world is in a position to say that the “prophets stopped” after John the Baptist?
As for miracles and the “magic Jesus” theory, I’ve always been very put off when one would attempt to argue that our God is better than your God because he was “more magical.”
When Pope John Paul called Islam “a reduction in revelation” he included none of the above arguments, but pointed to the extent to which the Koran was “Old Testament” and thereby lacking the message of Christ - which is, in my humble opinion what separates the same Christians from Muslims in that it is their love of the other, their understanding of contrary opinion and last [but first], their obligation to “love their enemy.”
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Onesimus
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What would you propose for alternative methods of divine authentication?
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