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jinc1019. You asked,
So instead, let’s look at the principles.
Look at what is going on here.
We are not exactly sure what teaching of Luther’s in Exsurge Domine the Church is responding to (Remember the subtitle of Exsurge Domine is “Condemning the Errors of Martin Luther”).
But if what I am thinking is correct, Luther was basically saying (at some time in his public life [and he may have contradicted himself on this later too]) that the death penalty itself is intrinsically evil.
That seems to be Luther’s principle that the Church is taking issue with.
Now go to the Old Testament and look at the concept of capital punishment.
Are you going to condemn Moses at the foot of Mount Sinai for carrying out capital punishment? Are you ready to denounce Elijah as slipping into sin on Mount Carmel concerning the prophets of Baal? No of course not.
But if you take Luther’s statement (and it may not even be in writing but an oral statement so again we don’t know for sure what teaching of Luther’s the Church is responding to) as a principle, Luther’s apparent blanket statement would indict Moses.
Luther’s statement would indict Elijah too. Luther’s statement would indict others in good standing with God as well.
This would be unacceptable.
The PRINCIPLE of what Luther seems to be asserting MUST be condemned as false (if I am correct in what Luther is asserting).
That was the whole point of Exsurge Domine. To correct errors in Luther’s teachings. Not to promote Governments killing people or the Church killing people.
That was what Exsurge Domine was written in response to: “Condemning the Errors of Martin Luther” (that is after all, the subtitle of Exsurge Domine).
It was to assert people in proper authority CAN in good conscience, carry out capital punishment. Not to assert people in authority SHOULD be carrying out capital punishment.
To shed light on the fact that people (like Luther) denying this concept are wrong.
To shed light on people denying that people in proper authority CAN carry out capital punishment are incorrect in their assertion.
To shed light on people who are saying: “People in proper authority roles cannot ever carry out capital punishment” . . . . . . are people who are mistaken.
I’ll post later on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary and how this all dove-tails into the authority issue as well.
I still need to post why St. Peter being opposed by St. Paul to his face, does not do away with St. Peter’s authority (Pope Francis probably gets opposed to his face in the Confessional weekly by non-Bishop Priests and perhaps is sometimes taken to task publicly by Bishops as well—that likewise would not bear on his proper authority).
Wew! I can’t keep up with this thread.
God bless.
Excerpt from Exsurge Domine Therefore we, in this above enumeration, important as it is, wish to proceed with great care as is proper, and to cut off the advance of this plague and cancerous disease so it will not spread any further in the Lord’s field as harmful thornbushes. We have therefore held a careful inquiry, scrutiny, discussion, strict examination, and mature deliberation with each of the brothers, the eminent cardinals of the holy Roman Church, as well as the priors and ministers general of the religious orders, besides many other professors and masters skilled in sacred theology and in civil and canon law. We have found that these errors or theses are not Catholic, as mentioned above, and are not to be taught, as such; but rather are against the doctrine and tradition of the Catholic Church, and against the true interpretation of the sacred Scriptures received from the Church.
If I did, some people would probably just deny it.
So instead, let’s look at the principles.
Look at what is going on here.
We are not exactly sure what teaching of Luther’s in Exsurge Domine the Church is responding to (Remember the subtitle of Exsurge Domine is “Condemning the Errors of Martin Luther”).
- Exsurge Domine (literally: “Arise, O Lord”) = “Condemning the Errors of Martin Luther”
But if what I am thinking is correct, Luther was basically saying (at some time in his public life [and he may have contradicted himself on this later too]) that the death penalty itself is intrinsically evil.
That seems to be Luther’s principle that the Church is taking issue with.
Now go to the Old Testament and look at the concept of capital punishment.
Are you going to condemn Moses at the foot of Mount Sinai for carrying out capital punishment? Are you ready to denounce Elijah as slipping into sin on Mount Carmel concerning the prophets of Baal? No of course not.
But if you take Luther’s statement (and it may not even be in writing but an oral statement so again we don’t know for sure what teaching of Luther’s the Church is responding to) as a principle, Luther’s apparent blanket statement would indict Moses.
Luther’s statement would indict Elijah too. Luther’s statement would indict others in good standing with God as well.
This would be unacceptable.
The PRINCIPLE of what Luther seems to be asserting MUST be condemned as false (if I am correct in what Luther is asserting).
That was the whole point of Exsurge Domine. To correct errors in Luther’s teachings. Not to promote Governments killing people or the Church killing people.
That was what Exsurge Domine was written in response to: “Condemning the Errors of Martin Luther” (that is after all, the subtitle of Exsurge Domine).
It was to assert people in proper authority CAN in good conscience, carry out capital punishment. Not to assert people in authority SHOULD be carrying out capital punishment.
To shed light on the fact that people (like Luther) denying this concept are wrong.
To shed light on people denying that people in proper authority CAN carry out capital punishment are incorrect in their assertion.
To shed light on people who are saying: “People in proper authority roles cannot ever carry out capital punishment” . . . . . . are people who are mistaken.
I’ll post later on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary and how this all dove-tails into the authority issue as well.
I still need to post why St. Peter being opposed by St. Paul to his face, does not do away with St. Peter’s authority (Pope Francis probably gets opposed to his face in the Confessional weekly by non-Bishop Priests and perhaps is sometimes taken to task publicly by Bishops as well—that likewise would not bear on his proper authority).
Wew! I can’t keep up with this thread.
God bless.
Excerpt from Exsurge Domine Therefore we, in this above enumeration, important as it is, wish to proceed with great care as is proper, and to cut off the advance of this plague and cancerous disease so it will not spread any further in the Lord’s field as harmful thornbushes. We have therefore held a careful inquiry, scrutiny, discussion, strict examination, and mature deliberation with each of the brothers, the eminent cardinals of the holy Roman Church, as well as the priors and ministers general of the religious orders, besides many other professors and masters skilled in sacred theology and in civil and canon law. We have found that these errors or theses are not Catholic, as mentioned above, and are not to be taught, as such; but rather are against the doctrine and tradition of the Catholic Church, and against the true interpretation of the sacred Scriptures received from the Church.
