Loneliness and the church

[WillyAL]

The Orthodox also do hospitality very well. I’ve attended a total of three parishes and during their fellowship hour, all of them had home cooked meals their parishioners brought along with the typical store bought donuts and coffee. They were small to medium-small parishes and were very homelike. If I did not have some serious theological issues with the Orthodox, I probably would have become Orthodox.

Funny you should mention the Orthodox. In the city where I used to live there is a large Greek community. Their cathedral is located there and I decided to attend their sacred liturgy one Sunday. A few people invited me to the after-church social hour. Lot’s of great food and warm, welcoming people. Had a great conversation and learned a lot about orthodoxy. So much so that I went back the following week. Again I was welcomed, but not quite as warmly. I went back a third time a couple of weeks later. I sensed a very definite why-are-you-still-here vibe. They certainly welcomed me as a guest, but as a non-Greek, I don’t think I’d be accepted as a regular.

At my Parish, the priest does the same thing after mass. He stands outside the door to shake hands and say hi (sometimes without even looking you). Going through the motions. I think it really has to do with size though. All the Catholic Churches I’ve been to are big. I don’t know if there is any such thing as a small Catholic parish (probably some in the Bible belt I’d wager).

In the city where I now live, the dioceses consists of quite a few parishes, many of which are quite large. The parish I attend, however, is quite small. Attendance at Sunday Mass fluctuates between 50 - 75 people. Our priest also greets people at the door after Mass. He’s an outgoing guy and his greetings seem to be sincere, but I think it’s more due to his personality, and not so much how he sees his role as a priest.

 

[Ontheway]

For us Catholics, the answer seems to be - get involved, do your share, and don’t expect much. Maybe that’s the way it should be, although I am not entirely convinced.

 

[DarkLight]

For us Catholics, the answer seems to be - get involved, do your share, and don’t expect much. Maybe that’s the way it should be, although I am not entirely convinced.

The share everyone can do is different though. For example, I don’t always have a lot of transportation, and I work an odd schedule. While I can carve time out to go to an extra event once a week, it’s a lot harder for someone like me to start something up if there isn’t a ministry available, or to work out stuff that might require me to have access to a car.

Not everyone is in a place to do a lot.

 

[Ontheway]

The share everyone can do is different though. For example, I don’t always have a lot of transportation, and I work an odd schedule. While I can carve time out to go to an extra event once a week, it’s a lot harder for someone like me to start something up if there isn’t a ministry available, or to work out stuff that might require me to have access to a car.

Not everyone is in a place to do a lot.

DarkLight. Your response takes us back to my original question which has to do the role of the church in welcoming and supporting people that can, at times, be faced with difficulties. In your case it may be transportation, while for someone else it is something different.

 

[Naskor]

One of the most common complaints I here from protestant converts to Catholicism, is that the Church is much more lonely than the church they left.

 

[chaplainmom]

From my experiences, I takes at least a year to feel like you belong in a Catholic Church community. This requires you to be making an effort to attend church functions - like bible studies, or women’s altar society, choir, knights of Columbus, etc. there is not the same level of fellowship in Catholic Churches as there is in Protestant churches but that can be healthy. Some very close knit Protestant communities can look attractive on the outside but can become very tribal with a lot of dysfunctional unwritten expectations on the inside.

 

[Xantippe]

From my experiences, I takes at least a year to feel like you belong in a Catholic Church community. This requires you to be making an effort to attend church functions - like bible studies, or women’s altar society, choir, knights of Columbus, etc. there is not the same level of fellowship in Catholic Churches as there is in Protestant churches but that can be healthy. Some very close knit Protestant communities can look attractive on the outside but can become very tribal with a lot of dysfunctional unwritten expectations on the inside.

Yes.

I’m a Protestant upbringing myself and the absence of judgy judgy church ladies in Catholic parishes has been a great relief.

Real quote from actual church lady from the Protestant church I grew up in: “Those [Xantippe’s maiden name] girls! Always wearing jeans like BOYS!”

 

[WillyAL]

Yes.

I’m a Protestant upbringing myself and the absence of judgy judgy church ladies in Catholic parishes has been a great relief.

There are a few church lady types at my parish. Even CAF has a few posters who will go all church lady on you given the chance.

 

[Naskor]

There are a few church lady types at my parish. Even CAF has a few posters who will go all church lady on you given the chance.

Hate isn’t the opposite of love. Apathy is. Surely it is better to have to deal with Church ladies if it means having an active community than nothing.

 

[Xantippe]

Hate isn’t the opposite of love. Apathy is. Surely it is better to have to deal with Church ladies if it means having an active community than nothing.

I really have to disagree.

I’ve recently been reading about a cultish Protestant community in Idaho, and it can happen that control, manipulation and abuse masquerade convincingly as concern and Christian love.

Those are very “active” communities, and yet they cause terrible spiritual damage to many of the members.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Hate isn’t the opposite of love. Apathy is. Surely it is better to have to deal with Church ladies if it means having an active community than nothing.

I’d disagree. Vehemently.

I grew up in a small, close-knit and traditional Catholic church. Yes, everyone knew everyone else. That also meant that everyone knew everyone else’s business, and judged accordingly.

There was the time my sister brought a friend from school to Mass. Friend was Catholic, but not familiar with the Tridentine Mass. Friend was wearing a skirt that was, arguably, a tad short for Mass, but not exceptionally so. Friend, age 15, was pulled aside by four Women Of A Certain Age (who had never met her before) after Mass and told, in detail, what a horrible, shameless person she was, that she was responsible if a guy looked at her wrong and went to Hell for it, and that she shouldn’t come to Mass if she was going to dress like that. While Friend carried herself remarkably gracefully under the circumstances (I never especially liked her until I saw her responded politely but firmly to that bunch of biddies), you can rest assured she never came back to that church.

Or the time that Mrs. Smith’s husband, having insisted that Mrs. Smith spend the prior decade and a half homeschooling the kids rather than working and having adopted several pretty needy kids some six months before, decided that he preferred a younger model and left her and the kids. Church reaction? Mrs. Smith must not have been a good enough wife, or Mr. Smith wouldn’t have left her. No help, no comfort, no sympathy, just nonstop gossip and general nastiness.

Or the time that Mrs. Jones had severe, crippling postpartum depression after kid #9 or 10 was born. Like, can’t-get-out-of-bed-suicidal depression. Bad. She went to her parents to recuperate and get on a medical regimen to help. The older daughters, young teenagers, were left to take care of the rest of the family, including the newborn. Dad had to go back to work to support the family. No help from the church: Good Catholic Women ™ don’t get PPD, it’s disgusting that she “gave into temptation” like that, and so on.

Nope. While I dislike attending a church where I still feel very anonymous even after going there for 3 years, teaching classes, et all, it is very pleasant indeed not to have to deal with that sort of thing.

 

[Sarcelle]

Oh yes, Church Ladies. There is a reason behind that stereotype. Unfortunately, they exist in all denominations. May I dare say, there are even a few here.

 

[Bonnie]

Oh yes, Church Ladies. There is a reason behind that stereotype. Unfortunately, they exist in all denominations. May I dare say, there are even a few here.

And some of them are male.

 

[Xantippe]

I’d disagree. Vehemently.

I grew up in a small, close-knit and traditional Catholic church. Yes, everyone knew everyone else. That also meant that everyone knew everyone else’s business, and judged accordingly.

There was the time my sister brought a friend from school to Mass. Friend was Catholic, but not familiar with the Tridentine Mass. Friend was wearing a skirt that was, arguably, a tad short for Mass, but not exceptionally so. Friend, age 15, was pulled aside by four Women Of A Certain Age (who had never met her before) after Mass and told, in detail, what a horrible, shameless person she was, that she was responsible if a guy looked at her wrong and went to Hell for it, and that she shouldn’t come to Mass if she was going to dress like that. While Friend carried herself remarkably gracefully under the circumstances (I never especially liked her until I saw her responded politely but firmly to that bunch of biddies), you can rest assured she never came back to that church.

Or the time that Mrs. Smith’s husband, having insisted that Mrs. Smith spend the prior decade and a half homeschooling the kids rather than working and having adopted several pretty needy kids some six months before, decided that he preferred a younger model and left her and the kids. Church reaction? Mrs. Smith must not have been a good enough wife, or Mr. Smith wouldn’t have left her. No help, no comfort, no sympathy, just nonstop gossip and general nastiness.

Or the time that Mrs. Jones had severe, crippling postpartum depression after kid #9 or 10 was born. Like, can’t-get-out-of-bed-suicidal depression. Bad. She went to her parents to recuperate and get on a medical regimen to help. The older daughters, young teenagers, were left to take care of the rest of the family, including the newborn. Dad had to go back to work to support the family. No help from the church: Good Catholic Women ™ don’t get PPD, it’s disgusting that she “gave into temptation” like that, and so on.

Nope. While I dislike attending a church where I still feel very anonymous even after going there for 3 years, teaching classes, et all, it is very pleasant indeed not to have to deal with that sort of thing.

GAH!

It’s really a worst case scenario to have a) no help and support and b) endless judgment.

 

[Xantippe]

And some of them are male.

You’re a funny, funny lady.

 

[Ontheway]

GAH!

It’s really a worst case scenario to have a) no help and support and b) endless judgment.

So, why is “the church” offering no help and support. When I refer to “the church”, I mean it in the broadest possible terms, as a community of Christians.

We all say the “God is Love” and insist that “love thy neighbor” is second in importance only to “Love God”.

So, where is the love?

Has the church become so institutionalized that the community has all but disappeared?

 

[Sarcelle]

So, why is “the church” offering no help and support. When I refer to “the church”, I mean it in the broadest possible terms, as a community of Christians.

We all say the “God is Love” and insist that “love thy neighbor” is second in importance only to “Love God”.

So, where is the love?

Has the church become so institutionalized that the community has all but disappeared?

Gone are the days when people stayed in one place, put down roots and helped build the community. Nowadays, people are more mobile and moving from place to place. Thanks to a lackluster job market, people have to move for jobs. It’s hard to put down roots much less be part of a community when society has become more transient. Church is the same way.

 

[Xantippe]

Gone are the days when people stayed in one place, put down roots and helped build the community. Nowadays, people are more mobile and moving from place to place. Thanks to a lackluster job market, people have to move for jobs. It’s hard to put down roots much less be part of a community when society has become more transient. Church is the same way.

Yes.

 

[Ontheway]

Gone are the days when people stayed in one place, put down roots and helped build the community. Nowadays, people are more mobile and moving from place to place. Thanks to a lackluster job market, people have to move for jobs. It’s hard to put down roots much less be part of a community when society has become more transient. Church is the same way.

Agreed, but where is the fellowship of Christians that is supposed to distinguish us from the rest of society? Where are the virtues?

 

[Bonnie]

Agreed, but where is the fellowship of Christians that is supposed to distinguish us from the rest of society? Where are the virtues?

I wish I knew the answer. When we were homeschooling I joined a large Catholic homeschool group. It was a disaster. The majority were Republican & made no secret of their opinion that those who did not vote Republican were on the side of evil. The last straw for me was a video demonizing Bill Clinton, who was president then.

We then joined a secular homeschooling group. We all had a lot more fun with non-Christians than we had had with Catholics.

As long as politics, money, or social status trump Christian values, we won’t find fellowship.