Longing for a simpler faith

[Teneas]

Even the child molesters? Ok you’re free to do so.

Haven’t known any, and I was a altar boy for a long time growing up. So, yes, until I would know them as a child molester, I would respect them greatly. After I would know, I would love them as Christ would, but would be sickened by the act.

You sure got child molestation on your mind a good bit. Might want to find something else to beat on the Church about. We as Catholics don’t like it anymore than anyone else, trust me.

 

[Mijoy2]

When I began investigating the christian faith following a looong absense, I was open to any and all ideas of what the faith was all about. Not understanding the “differences” between the reformed concepts of chrisitainty and catholicism I was open (or equally open) to all.

Having this attitude I went with my wife to the church she was frequenting a the time. Which was an evangelical church in town. Vibrant?!? heck yeah! As soon as I walked in people were welcoming and kind. The celebration (or service, I think celebration is a more fitting term) was equally vibrant. A large portion of the ceremony was a video production of words flying past a screen accompanied by a guitarist singing words of praise and glory to Jesus Christ. The congregation joined in and sang loudly with the guitarist.

I sing like fingernails on a chalkboard. I am considered outgoing and friendly (I believe) but I am quite reserved in my nature and not the loud type. I have a more quiet mannerism. I felt so uncomfortable and so disconnected that I felt I was an outcast. I failed to see the reverance in this form of ceremony.

My wife was thrilled I was there. Yet I told her I needed to invertigate more and that I felt uncomfotable singing and praising in this manner in front of people. I felt I was not being myself.

This form of worship, in my opinion, can grow stale. Christ died a horrific death on the cross for mankind. His Mother watched and suffered with Him terribly. When I pray, I need to pray with this in mind. I feel a desire to pray on my knees and attempt to the best of my ability to connect with God in a deep sublime spiritual way. I need the church’s help with this and receive this help through the liturgy.

You may grow tired with the hoopla. Finding (or re-finding) the catholic faith was a breath of fresh air for me. For all the right reasons, but also because I no longer felt I needed to be something I was not.

I’ll pray for you and your family.

 

[Carlan]

I think maybe what some find complicated is all the additions, rules, and regulations found in dogma and not in Scripture. How rules change. And they don’t believe Christ meant for it to be so complicated.

If I go to another parish it will be the 4th in my area. And driving 30 miles every wk is not really a feasible option for me personally.

Lib, what rules are you talking about? A Catholic attends Mass to worship as found in Scripture. Read John 6,50-69 . This is the center of our Christian worship. It is the same in all parishes the world over. Nothing complicated about it, if as a Catholic you are not understanding it you must take steps to catechize your self. Father enlighten us all with the fullness of your Truth. God Bless. Carlan

 

[Monte1945]

Now I feel bad…those other priests that aren’t as passionate, or not as gifted in homilies are great to. I promise I mean that.

One evening I went to an evening Mass and the Priest who did the homily spoke
for about ten minutes… It was the most boring sermon I ever heard… The time dragged
on and on and it seemed like a hour went by before he finished. I remember thinking
to myself. “this fellow is most likely as sincere in his intentions as anyone can be but
he certainly can’t preach”.

After Mass I came across a catholic friend of mine who had also attended the same service and he came up to me, shook my hand and his eyes were filled with tears.
His face beaming and full of joy as he shouted out to me… “Wasn’t that sermon
about the best one you have ever heard?”

Seems we can’t be too certain what a person needs to hear and how he needs to hear it.

 

[Lib_Christian]

LibChristian you seem a tortured soul and i pray that God guides you. I have never come across anyone who seems to focus more on the congregation and pastor rather than the personal worship of Jesus. You need to let Christ into your life.

Thank you Tim and I will pray for you as well if that’s alright. God bless.

 

[Lib_Christian]

Did you read my entire thread?

The Evangelical Church I was attending was looking to build another Church building while in possession of two other physical buildings that had fizzled out. What happened to those Churches? What about the replacement pastors? The persona of those churches certainly changed…

My point being many non-Catholics go Church shopping and attend a Church based on the pastor, when the pastor leaves, for whatever reason, many members pack up and move on to the next “cool” pastor… It happens all the time, read the threads on CA.

Yes I did. And I’ve seen a lot of priest changes in my life. What they might emphasize in preaching the gospel can vary giving a different focus. I’ve seen one remove statues and people leaving for that reason. I’ve seen another spending excessive money on things like marble flooring. Etc.

 

[Teneas]

One evening I went to an evening Mass and the Priest who did the homily spoke
for about ten minutes… It was the most boring sermon I ever heard… The time dragged
on and on and it seemed like a hour went by before he finished. I remember thinking
to myself. “this fellow is most likely as sincere in his intentions as anyone can be but
he certainly can’t preach”.

After Mass I came across a catholic friend of mine who had also attended the same service and he came up to me, shook my hand and his eyes were filled with tears.
His face beaming and full of joy as he shouted out to me… “Wasn’t that sermon
about the best one you have ever heard?”

Seems we can’t be too certain what a person needs to hear and how he needs to hear it.

I agree completely with this. I just know I myself get inspired more when I got someone that says it like it is, and doesn’t hold back much at all. I am not into all that PC stuff the world has created. Truth is truth. Of course, there are times to preach it as it is, and times to hold back some.

Here on these forums, while talking to fellow Catholics, I believe we can be as blunt as it gets sometimes. We understand our Church, therefore those that are Catholic should be held accountable. When talking to one not of the faith, we should be more tactful, and understanding. More patient and kind. Time and place.

Again, I do agree with your statements 100%. I am not right all the time by any means…not even close…just ask my wife.

 

[Lib_Christian]

Haven’t known any, and I was a altar boy for a long time growing up. So, yes, until I would know them as a child molester, I would respect them greatly. After I would know, I would love them as Christ would, but would be sickened by the act.

You sure got child molestation on your mind a good bit. Might want to find something else to beat on the Church about. We as Catholics don’t like it anymore than anyone else, trust me.

Ok. I know one who finally committed suicide because he molested. All those yrs he was a child molester but we didn’t know it because he was hiding behind his authorative collar and ppl greatly respected him greatly too.

 

[Lib_Christian]

I sing like fingernails on a chalkboard. I am considered outgoing and friendly (I believe) but I am quite reserved in my nature and not the loud type. I have a more quiet mannerism…

You sound like me in that respect.

 

[Teneas]

Ok. I know one who finally committed suicide because he molested. All those yrs he was a child molester but we didn’t know it because he was hiding behind his authorative collar and ppl greatly respected him greatly too.

If your point is that all priests are sinners and do things wrong, I agree. Do you not hold whatever religious leaders you have as greater men than you? Do you not look up to them more than ordinary men? There is a line of respect that should be given, that respect, at least to me, is one of the highest forms of respect.

I feel horrible for those that are molested, and I have little sympathies with those that actually molest. It is a horrific act against those that trust you.

All other faiths are guilty of the same exact thing, and I am sure you can find many more examples of it going on in different denominations besides Catholicism.

The reason that Catholics get beat about it so badly are the following:

1. Anti-Catholicism teachings. There are some, that no matter what will hate Catholics. Will go out of their way to point the finger at anything that has ever happened wrong in the Church.
2. It is the largest denomination of Christianity in the world! Some say we are not as united as we say we are, yet they are sure fast to point the finger at the ENTIRE church when something bad happens. Because we are so united, and so together, the world pays attention to us more than any other Christian faith. Just look when the Pope speaks, world wide news tunes into him. There isn’t another leader, or denomination that can say such. I believe that gives us as Catholics one main thing: A broad target to aim at.

3 Priests, for the most part, not being allowed to marry, or once wife has died, not allowed to remarry. Oh the fingers that get pointed toward us because of this.

I will respond maybe once more to your molestation charges and accusations perhaps. Other than that my friend, it is just brow beating. We can all bring up something horrible that another faith has done, does it do us any good in the long run? Nope. Not constructive at all. Christ is within us all…doesn’t mean we don’t sin, or have vices. Perhaps yours are not as severe as those priests that have molested, but there are there none the less.

 

[Carlan]

Ok. I know one who finally committed suicide because he molested. All those yrs he was a child molester but we didn’t know it because he was hiding behind his authorative collar and ppl greatly respected him greatly too.

God will judge everyones unrepented mortal sins. We pray for our selves and all our brothers and sisters struggling with sin. We pray God will give us the grace to persevere in righteousness until the end.Carlan

 

[Hiskid1973]

The scary thing about this is the cover up that extended all the way up to the top…The Lord only knows what’s still is covered up…Sadly, as the days grow more evil this is permeating every area of life…I actually know someone who experienced this as a relative…They left to become Anglican…

 

[Lib_Christian]

Lib, what rules are you talking about? A Catholic attends Mass to worship as found in Scripture. Read John 6,50-69 . This is the center of our Christian worship. It is the same in all parishes the world over. Nothing complicated about it, if as a Catholic you are not understanding it you must take steps to catechize your self. Father enlighten us all with the fullness of your Truth. God Bless. Carlan

Wow I don’t have the time to list all of them. But find me in the Bible where it’s a mortal sin to miss Mass on Friday Jan 1, 2010. or Tues Dec 8, 2009? Or where at one time no meat on any Friday 52 wks/yr. And then suddenly it’s ok to eat meat on any Fri except during Lent. The Bible speaks of fasting. But where did Christ say we have specific dates of Ash Wed and Good Fri when we MUST fast?

You of course are going to resort to your beliefs in apostolic succession and bind and loose and that’s fine if that’s what you believe.

I believe in also searching Scripture to see if what we are being taught is in there. And again, sorry to bring it up again. But we were taught to know false teachers by their fruit. And to me that means not to shove child molestation under the rug and then for lay persons to pretend just because someone is human and can sin, that there aren’t at least some limits if they are truly to be taken as upper leadership in the Church. I’m not judging their salvation. I do try to discern if they are true shepherds by their fruits we will know them by. But that’s me. Peace.

 

[Teneas]

The scary thing about this is the cover up that extended all the way up to the top…The Lord only knows what’s still is covered up…Sadly, as the days grow more evil this is permeating every area of life…I actually know someone who experienced this as a relative…They left to become Anglican…

I agree, and I can’t comment honestly on much of that. I don’t know exactly how much covering up was done, and I doubt that anyone really knows just how much, or how little was done. The media does tend to gravitate towards Catholics with this however, and I have said why I believe this to be true.

Just something I dug up here, as you can’t find much on actual numbers for non-Catholic Christians and molestation:

democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=275x5312

June 15, 2007
BY ROSE FRENCH

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – The three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America say they typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members.

The figures offer a glimpse into what has long been an extremely difficult phenomenon to pin down – the frequency of sex abuse in Protestant congregations.

Religious groups and victims’ supporters have been interested in the figure ever since the Roman Catholic sex abuse crisis hit five years ago. The church has revealed that there have been 13,000 credible accusations against Catholic clerics since 1950 – 228 a year.

Protestant numbers have been harder to come by because the denominations are less centralized than the Catholic church. Some of the only numbers come from three insurance companies – Church Mutual Insurance Co., GuideOne Insurance Co. and Brotherhood Mutual Insurance Co. Together, they represent a large chunk of all U.S. Protestant churches.

reformation.com/CSA/variousabuse.html

Follow those links and read up some. It happens in every denomination that there is. I would imagine, can’t confirm, that most do try to “cover up” to some extent. I think all should be tried as criminals, but I also feel that it is a sin that needs to be worked out through therapy, with patience, and with love. It is obvious those that do such a thing are sick. Whether mentally or whatever…they have an issue.

It’s just so easy to point at a large community of Faith, such as the Catholics and be able to p(name removed by moderator)oint what has happened. God only knows what happens in the backwoods churches that exist down here in the deep south. not saying that churches down here are all backwoods, as I am a born and raised southerner

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Our family has been invited to a breakfast at the small community church where my teenagers attend a non-denominational youth group. Sadly, our parish is lacking in youth activities. My teenagers are totally turned off to the Catholic faith. My daughter tells me that other Christians are more enthusiastic about God and Jesus. She thinks that most people in our church are dead in their faith. She says the youth group never says anything negative about the Catholic faith, by the way. I believe her on that, she’s a very forthright young lady. In actuality, our parish does seem dead.

Even though I’ll always love aspects of the Catholic faith and will always consider myself Catholic, I think it’s too complicated. I’ve read a lot here at this site that confirms that thought. I really don’t want to deal with so much complication in my relationship with God right now. I don’t feel like dragging my children to Mass anymore. We haven’t gone to Mass much in the last 6 months. I think our family will be looking for a simpler faith.

To paraphrase GK Chesterton.

If you want to open the door, it’s no use asking for a simpler key.

 

[Lib_Christian]

If your point is that all priests are sinners and do things wrong, I agree. Do you not hold whatever religious leaders you have as greater men than you? Do you not look up to them more than ordinary men? There is a line of respect that should be given, that respect, at least to me, is one of the highest forms of respect.

I will respond maybe once more to your molestation charges and accusations perhaps. Other than that my friend, it is just brow beating. We can all bring up something horrible that another faith has done, does it do us any good in the long run? Nope. Not constructive at all. Christ is within us all…doesn’t mean we don’t sin, or have vices. Perhaps yours are not as severe as those priests that have molested, but there are there none the less.

Not so much anymore. The greatest shall be the least. I’m not a priest or in the hierarchy.

 

[Hiskid1973]

But find me in the Bible where it’s a mortal sin to miss Mass

Is this true ?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Is this true ?

Yes, it is true, and it is in the bible.

Love God with all your heart and put no other gods before God.

As Catholics, mass is our time to offer Thanksgiving to God.

Putting earthly desires ahead of this offering is a grave sin.

 

[Lib_Christian]

God will judge everyones unrepented mortal sins. We pray for our selves and all our brothers and sisters struggling with sin. We pray God will give us the grace to persevere in righteousness until the end.Carlan

 

[Lib_Christian]

The scary thing about this is the cover up that extended all the way up to the top…The Lord only knows what’s still is covered up…Sadly, as the days grow more evil this is permeating every area of life…I actually know someone who experienced this as a relative…They left to become Anglican…