Looking for an Orthodox Catholic magazine that does NOT support illegal immigration in the U.S.

[EasterJoy]

Laws against theft do not need to be re-written. They need to be enforced. Laws against murder do not need to be re-written. They need to be enforced.

So too - laws against illegal aliens do not need to be re-written. They need to be enforced.

Those who call for open borders in the name of ‘compassion’ open the doors to no borders anywhere.

Your house has borders. Your person has borders. Those laws, too, will be rewritten—to redistribute what was once rightfully yours.

It has already happened.

OK, so what about those whose families are starving in Mexico? Congo? Sudan? Guatemala? By the gracious bounty of God, we are the wealthiest, most overfed, most secure people who have ever walked the earth. Although we are only 5% of the world’s population, we account for nearly 25% of the world’s energy consumption. Likewise, as I am sure you know, we throw out more food than anyone else, waste more than anyone else, live in bigger and more luxurious houses than anywere else, and so on.

What is our responsibility towards the poor? Are you saying it is no concern of ours that a mother and father who are willing to work long hours at hard work have no way to feed their children? That they have two choices: Be a criminal or watch their children die?

Remember the famous story of the person who wanted the Lord to defend his rights:

*Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to share the inheritance with me.” He replied to him, “Friend, who appointed me as your judge and arbitrator?” Then he said to the crowd, “Take care to guard against all greed, for though one may be rich, one’s life does not consist of possessions.”

Then he told them a parable. "There was a rich man whose land produced a bountiful harvest. He asked himself, ‘What shall I do, for I do not have space to store my harvest?’ And he said, 'This is what I shall do: I shall tear down my barns and build larger ones. There I shall store all my grain and other goods and I shall say to myself, “Now as for you, you have so many good things stored up for many years, rest, eat, drink, be merry!” But God said to him, ‘You fool, this night your life will be demanded of you; and the things you have prepared, to whom will they belong?’ Thus will it be for the one who stores up treasure for himself but is not rich in what matters to God…

That servant who knew his master’s will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely; and the servant who was ignorant of his master’s will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more*." Luke 12:13-21, 47-48

To whom much is given, much will be expected. Knowing what we know all too well, and with all we have been given by God, how are we going to stand before the throne of Heaven and defend our nations against the outcry of the poor?

Is it so horrible that we might want our politics to reflect our prospects for eternal security, and not just whether or not we hang on to our land and property in this life? This is not advanced theology, something that Rome has to interpret for us. We are talking about the plain meaning of the Gospels, here!

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
For I was hungry and you gave me no food,
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
a stranger and you gave me no welcome,
naked and you gave me no clothing,
ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’
Then they will answer and say,
‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger
or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’
He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you,
what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ Matt. 25:41-45

 

[EasterJoy]

This issue is NOT as complex as people think !!

It boils down to a simple question:

Can the U.S. allow everyone in the world who wants live here move in? If the answer is “no” (which it clearly is since there are 6 billion people in the world) then the only question becomes: “what is the right number”?

The “right number” is what the GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES says is the right number through its Immigration and Naturalization Service. It is NOT the number that the USCCB says it “should be”, or the Vatican, or what Mexico says it should be. We, the taxpayers of the U.S. through our elected officials are the only ones who should be determing the “right amount” of immigrants based upon what our economy can and will support. Arizona is simply trying to enforce federal law.

Also, I have found my publication: it’s called "The Wanderer"

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2494923/posts

Sorry. By God’s election, I am a voter and have the Constitutional right to voice my opinion in the United States of America. This is a nation which I know to be among the most generous in history, if moved to be so. There is no reason to pretend I am powerless concerning what our laws are or what our political will is.

If I know we could have helped needy people who would work for a living and we decided to defend our standard of living instead, and I say nothing, then I will have to answer for that before the throne of God.

Yes, we can and should exert sovereignty over our borders. Let’s not pretend, though, that the whole question is so simple as that, lest the blood of our brothers cry out from the soil to God against us.

 

[EasterJoy]

Anyway, OP, back to the point:
You have your opinion, I have mine, but we can probably agree on this much:
The magazine you want probably does not exist.

 

[copeland45]

Anyway, OP, back to the point:
You have your opinion, I have mine, but we can probably agree on this much:
The magazine you want probably does not exist.

It does exist. It’s called “The Wanderer.” You should read it to learn more about the faith you claim to profess.

 

[EasterJoy]

It does exist. It’s called “The Wanderer.” You should read it to learn more about the faith you claim to profess.

What’s with the “claim to profess” dig? Please elaborate on what you meant by that?

There’s no doubt I need to learn a lot more about the faith, but let’s say I’m a little leery of the Wanderer. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that our archbishop here in Portland seems fairly well-grounded in the faith. I think the Holy Father thinks so, too. So gee, who do I believe?

This is an interesting quote from the Wanderer:
"we cannot rule out — indeed we must rule in — the fact that for every person from a foreign country who finds work in the United States, an American loses that job…"

That is nonsense. Besides, it sounds like a line from the Know Nothings of the 1840s and 1850s, who leveled the same alarm at the Irish and German Catholics flooding into the country…which is to say, my own great-great grandfather.

The platform of the American Party called for, among other things:
Severe limits on immigration, especially from Catholic countries.
Restricting political office to native-born Americans of English and/or Scottish lineage and Protestant persuasion.
Mandating a wait of 21 years before an immigrant could gain citizenship.
Restricting public school teacher positions to Protestants.
Mandating daily Bible readings in public schools.
Restricting the sale of liquor.
Restricting the use of languages other than English.

Of course, just as the Irish were willing to take jobs with high mortality rates, so illegal immigrants are taking jobs no one here will take. And yes…no one else will take them.

Are the employers who are exploiting these workers the primary target of righteous indignation? How about the ones who exploit the very fact that they feel free to mistreat workers because they are not legal, knowing that the workers will suffer the most if they go to the authorities? No…isn’t that funny?

I don’t see how what the Wanderer piece says fits in with the plain meaning of the Scriptures. So enlighten me. How are those poor people supposed to get fed, and why are we free to live amidst wealth only dreamed of in former ages, and yet do nothing about their plight, save send them back home to it?

 

[EasterJoy]

Actually, I’m not interested in either continuing the conversation on whether the immigration problem is a black-and-white policing problem or not, nor whether it is a good idea to decide that the bishops don’t know what they’re talking about when Rome is not saying that.

I’m also not at all interested in hearing what you meant by referring to my faith as “the faith you claim to profess.” Let’s just drop it.

You found your magazine, so…problem solved.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

OK, so what about those whose families are starving in Mexico? Congo? Sudan? Guatemala? By the gracious bounty of God, we are the wealthiest, most overfed, most secure people who have ever walked the earth. Although we are only 5% of the world’s population, we account for nearly 25% of the world’s energy consumption. Likewise, as I am sure you know, we throw out more food than anyone else, waste more than anyone else, live in bigger and more luxurious houses than anywere else, and so on.

What is our responsibility towards the poor? Are you saying it is no concern of ours that a mother and father who are willing to work long hours at hard work have no way to feed their children? That they have two choices: Be a criminal or watch their children die?

Remember the famous story of the person who wanted the Lord to defend his rights:

*Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to share the inheritance with me.” He replied to him, “Friend, who appointed me as your judge and arbitrator?” Then he said to the crowd, “Take care to guard against all greed, for though one may be rich, one’s life does not consist of possessions.”

Then he told them a parable. "There was a rich man whose land produced a bountiful harvest. He asked himself, ‘What shall I do, for I do not have space to store my harvest?’ And he said, 'This is what I shall do: I shall tear down my barns and build larger ones. There I shall store all my grain and other goods and I shall say to myself, “Now as for you, you have so many good things stored up for many years, rest, eat, drink, be merry!” But God said to him, ‘You fool, this night your life will be demanded of you; and the things you have prepared, to whom will they belong?’ Thus will it be for the one who stores up treasure for himself but is not rich in what matters to God…

That servant who knew his master’s will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely; and the servant who was ignorant of his master’s will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more*." Luke 12:13-21, 47-48

To whom much is given, much will be expected. Knowing what we know all too well, and with all we have been given by God, how are we going to stand before the throne of Heaven and defend our nations against the outcry of the poor?

Is it so horrible that we might want our politics to reflect our prospects for eternal security, and not just whether or not we hang on to our land and property in this life? This is not advanced theology, something that Rome has to interpret for us. We are talking about the plain meaning of the Gospels, here!

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
For I was hungry and you gave me no food,
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
a stranger and you gave me no welcome,
naked and you gave me no clothing,
ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’
Then they will answer and say,
‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger
or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’
He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you,
what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ Matt. 25:41-45

In the name of compassion, surely you must be housing and feeding many of these poor unfortunates yourself.

 

[copeland45]

You found your magazine, so…problem solved.

Agreed. Problem solved. I’m happy to have found a publication that can look at this issue through not only a faith-based prism, but also an intellectual prism (rather than purely a feelings-based approach). “Sympathy” for illegals will not alone solve their plight, and the USCCB’s response does not consider basic law enforcement. That renders their stance irrelevant. Governments must lead the way, starting with Mexico!

Cheers and God Bless. Make sure you give to charity and support missions. We can all do that much.

 

[Tietjen]

One more question to Tietjen and anyone else who is in favor of unrestricted borders:

The state of California this morning laid off 150,000 state employees because it couldn’t afford to pay them. Why not? Because the state has gone broke providing medical care, food, school tuition, and housing to more than 10 million illegal immigrants.

So what about these 150,000 tax-paying citizens? What would Christ say about the way they’ve been treated?

Okay, I know that I said that I was done with this topic and for the most part I am. However, I can’t let the mis-information go without challenging it. You say that there are 10 million illegal immigrants in California which are to blame for the state’s furloughs of government employees. By the way, those employees are NOT laid off. Three days a month (on Fridays) 140,000 employees won’t be paid for that particular day. This has happened in California’s past (“Furlough Fridays”). Those same employees have this to say, “Over-inflated government is to blame for the state’s budget woes, and top officials not willing to take cuts creates a huge inequity within the system.”

Just 2 points:

1. If there are 10 million illegal immigrants in California than 7.5 million must have arrived last night. There are 2.6 million illegal immigrants in California and that number is a recent updated number accepted by both sides of this issue. When you choose to put out bogus and inflated numbers to support your side on the issue, it causes everyone else to question every little thing that you say. If you had said 3 million, I would have somewhat understood that perhaps you were attempting to be honest on the issue but when you inflate the number by almost 400% there is more going on than a simple mistake.
2. Lastly, there is no doubt that the 2.6 million illegal immigrants residing in California have contributed to the state’s financial turmoil (nothing in California is free). However, if you are honest, you will recognize that California has been in trouble for decades. Most of the problems have come about because of poor management on the part of government officials (IE - remember the situation in Bell where (“real criminals”) officials were being paid $787K per year with annual pay raises of 12% that was just ONE person’s salary!!! Then look at the pensions of state officials… they total more than $3.9 BILLION (up $145 Million from just 10 years ago)!!! You want to know the REAL reason why California is broke? Look to your state, and local officials for that answer. My young son can manage a checkbook better than most of the California officials.

 

[faithfully]

You want to know the REAL reason why California is broke? Look to your state, and local officials for that answer. My young son can manage a checkbook better than most of the California officials.

We have a checkbook???

O-M-G! I know WAY too many people that think they have $$ as long as they have checks! :bigyikes:

We set up some really wacky situations too…

 

[Tietjen]

I think it’s pretty clear that illegal immigrants have no business in this country. Yes we’ll provide them with the assistance they need… to get back to their own country. The number of illegals pouring in every year is just ridiculous, and it needs to be stopped. God bless Arizona for doing so.

Also, I wish people would stop romanticizing the issue by acting as if every illegal immigrant is a father with his wife and kids who just wants some work. That is only PARTLY true. A lot of illegals who come into the country are violent criminals, drug dealers, and other unsavory types.

Which group do you believe is the majority? Are there 10 million illegal murdering immigrants invading the US or are the criminals actually an EXTREMELY low percentage? If it’s a disproportionately lower number, in favor of hard-working men and women trying to earn money for their families, then let me ask you if you advocate limiting births in the US. Would you be in favor of artificial birth control as a method to avoid mothers that die during child birth? Sounds silly huh? So, does your reasoning that you would allow millions of families to starve because there may be SOME criminals who slip by the system. Besides, the USCCB is for reforming the immigration laws which includes being more resolute in screening those coming into the United States.

 

[Tietjen]

I have a hard time with this subject (and with health care) and trying to figure out and understand the position of the USCCB on these topics. It just seems to me that these are two big problems that one could try to solve through different ways and, while there are some fundamental truths that cannot be denied, I wonder how much of the proposed positions are positions we should be taking and how many are opinions that we can disagree with and believe another strategy would be better to reach the same good. I should probably study this more, but every time I have delved into it, I always come out wondering.

We are NOT required to side with the USCCB or even the Holy See on the issue of immigration. It is not a Church dogma. HOWEVER, we ARE to practice charity. I personally just have a soft spot for people who are doing everything they can to provide for their families. I have children, and believe me, if I was in a situation where I had to sneek across a border in order to work and provide them food, I’d do so without giving it a second thought. Having said that, and having recognized that I would do the same thing that many illegal immigrants are doing now; how can I then become upset when they are doing what any decent parent would do?

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

We are NOT required to side with the USCCB or even the Holy See on the issue of immigration. It is not a Church dogma. HOWEVER, we ARE to practice charity. I personally just have a soft spot for people who are doing everything they can to provide for their families. I have children, and believe me, if I was in a situation where I had to sneek across a border in order to work and provide them food, I’d do so without giving it a second thought. Having said that, and having recognized that I would do the same thing that many illegal immigrants are doing now; how can I then become upset when they are doing what any decent parent would do?

See, and there can be varying opinions on how to practice charity more efficiently. For every illegal father sneaking in (talking about the good guys, not the druggie/violent ones), there are many more fathers of hungry families left in Mexico, and I would not be surprised if at least a few of them stayed back because they do not want to do something illegal. Also, there are other families that have been torn apart, half of the family here in the states, the other half somewhere else in the world, that are waiting to come in legally. Is it really fair to grant amnesty to those who are here illegally (as in came here by breaking the law), and keep out the ones that are doing it the right way? I can totally relate to what you wrote about what we would do as parents, and that is part of what makes this so complicated for me. For what it is worth, I am very much in favor of streamlining the process of legal immigration, and being more welcoming to the “low education” group if this is a problem too, but saying that enforcing our *current *laws is uncharitable seems odd to me, especially when there does exist a very real threat to our safety, from the drug wars to terrorism. Wouldn’t we want to make our country safer for everyone, Americans that have been here for years and legal immigrants that may have arrived yesterday? Illegal immigrants are also more prone to not report abuse (domestic, at work, etc) out of fear of deportation… Coming in to this country legally helps them have the protections they deserve.

 

[copeland45]

For what it is worth, I am very much in favor of streamlining the process of legal immigration, and being more welcoming to the “low education” group if this is a problem too, but saying that enforcing our *current *laws is uncharitable seems odd to me, especially when there does exist a very real threat to our safety, from the drug wars to terrorism. Wouldn’t we want to make our country safer for everyone, Americans that have been here for years and legal immigrants that may have arrived yesterday? Illegal immigrants are also more prone to not report abuse (domestic, at work, etc) out of fear of deportation… Coming in to this country legally helps them have the protections they deserve.

Be careful. You’re making too much sense. Pretty soon you’ll be accused of not being a “real Catholic.”

 

[EasterJoy]

Be careful. You’re making too much sense. Pretty soon you’ll be accused of not being a “real Catholic.”

The pot calls the kettle black.

 

[EasterJoy]

In the name of compassion, surely you must be housing and feeding many of these poor unfortunates yourself.

You imply I said we should feed illegal immigrants, when what I said was that we ought to be helping to find them a legitimate means to support themselves, instead of saying “the solution is simple: The law says send them back, so send them back, that’s all.”

I did not say, and the bishops are not saying, that there ought to be no immigration laws and no enforcement of immigration laws. The message, rather, is that sealing the borders and saying “you are not my problem” is an insufficient response. The Gospel allows civil government and enforcement of laws. It does not allow us to let someone starve because they’ve sinned.

Yes, we do give money to help the less fortunate with food and housing, over and above paying taxes and voting that taxes be used for that purpose. I don’t think that is unusual for a Catholic to do, though.

Just out of curiosity, though: If a Missionary of Charity priest, someone who literally lives on as close to nothing as possible in order to live with and for the poorest of the poor, were to have written what I wrote, would you really take it any more seriously than you did when I wrote it?

"*After spending more than 20 years ministering to Spanish-speaking people in various countries of the world, the Rev. Bob Conroy is now a Roman Catholic priest in a place he never thought he would serve — his hometown of Topeka…

…Unemployment is very high among Latinos, many of whom have come to Topeka to escape the drug trafficking, corruption and poverty they found in their home countries, he said.

Over much of the past century, he said, Our Lady of Guadalupe church has been home to many immigrants from Spanish-speaking nations. In the process, the church became a well-established part of the city’s Latino population — and also the larger community.

In the past six to 10 years, he said, the church has seen another “explosion” of immigrants coming through its doors.

Our Lady of Guadalupe is the only Catholic church in town with Spanish-language Masses. Having worked with many Spanish-speaking people in impoverished nations, Conroy said, he can appreciate the difficulties many have overcome in even getting to Topeka, let alone to the church.

“I can appreciate the sacrifices they’ve made to get up here,” he said, “the struggles and the sacrifices they’ve made.”

As for the ongoing debate over illegal immigrants, Conroy said he takes his cues from the words of Jesus in the 25th chapter of the Gospel of Matthew. In a passage of the chapter, Jesus said, “I was a stranger, and you welcomed me.”

Applied to the immigration situation, Conroy said, “I’m not for open borders and I think immigration control is a good thing. However, my pastoral work puts me into contact with real people here and now. When someone is hungry or thirsty or imprisoned, I don’t ask if he has papers to be here.”

The spirit of being a missionary in Topeka is something many people can embrace and pursue — not just those in the clergy.

“As Christians,” Conroy said, “as a body, I think we ought to have a sense of opening our arms and welcoming those in need.”

As Conroy has found, sometimes the mission field can be as close as a person’s own backyard*."

cjonline.com/life/2010-05-21/worldwide_minister_comes_home

Just for the record, I agree with him completely. Do I think you’re not a Catholic because you think differently? No, I never said that. I think, though, that we have a responsibility as Catholics to talk about how we’re going to face this issue. We can’t just close the borders and ignore it. The Church is bigger than that. The Body of Christ and the human race is not confined to the Catholics of the United States of America.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think, though, that we have a responsibility as Catholics to talk about how we’re going to face this issue. We can’t just close the borders and ignore it. The Church is bigger than that. The Body of Christ and the human race is not confined to the Catholics of the United States of America.

I need to clarify: We can’t just open the borders and ignore it, either.

Civil government cannot operate without any idea of who is being governed. It cannot require people to do their duties as citizens or residents without requiring that they stand up and be counted. That cannot be done with an open border. Neither can any country operate by simply allowing all to immigrate who want to. That places an impossible burden on those who already live there, for a great many practical reasons.

The answer to illegal immigration is figuring out how to write immigration laws that are enforceable and that result in treatment of every human being that recognizes their inalieanble rights and dignity before God…both the ones who want to come and the ones already there.

Recognizing the dignity of the person is not a simple matter of giving things to people, but also of requiring people to act according to their dignity. It means requiring that those who can work, do work. It also means requiring that people respect the legitimate property boundaries of others, and respect legitimate authority. It means defending property rights and expecting people to obey the 9th and 10th commandments. This is all in the Church’s social encyclicals.

Having said that, authority is not just a matter of “I’m in charge, and moral law says you have to do as I say.” Moral law trumps civil law, the law of God trumps the law of man, and when civil law does not sufficiently recognize the just demands of charity, then charity must win out until civil law can be made to accomplish its ends by means allowable under the laws given to us by God. We are in a democracy. We cannot simply ignore laws that favor one good end over another good end in an unjust manner. We are bound to try to change the laws, so that all the just ends may be achieved, and to obey all laws and do what we can to honor all just ends as well as can be managed, in the meantime. Where the demands of justice can be met while also observing civil law, we must do that.

But I digress. We don’t want to turn this into a thread that belongs in the Moral Theology forum. I just want to say this, though: OP, the desire for a simplistic answer is not confined to one political leaning, I will grant you that. I apologize if I implied otherwise. That was not my intention.

You might do the world more good by taking an otherwise good Catholic magazine that treats this single subject too simply, and writing them with chapter and verse from the part of the papal encyclicals that *they *have chosen to ignore when necessary. It is a work of spiritual mercy to instruct the ignorant. Sometimes, that is a mutual process!

 

[Nec5]

I need to clarify: We can’t just open the borders and ignore it, either.

Civil government cannot operate without any idea of who is being governed. It cannot require people to do their duties as citizens or residents without requiring that they stand up and be counted. That cannot be done with an open border. Neither can any country operate by simply allowing all to immigrate who want to. That places an impossible burden on those who already live there, for a great many practical reasons.

The answer to illegal immigration is figuring out how to write immigration laws that are enforceable and that result in treatment of every human being that recognizes their inalieanble rights and dignity before God…both the ones who want to come and the ones already there.

Recognizing the dignity of the person is not a simple matter of giving things to people, but also of requiring people to act according to their dignity. It means requiring that those who can work, do work. It also means requiring that people respect the legitimate property boundaries of others, and respect legitimate authority. It means defending property rights and expecting people to obey the 9th and 10th commandments. This is all in the Church’s social encyclicals.

Having said that, authority is not just a matter of “I’m in charge, and moral law says you have to do as I say.” Moral law trumps civil law, the law of God trumps the law of man, and when civil law does not sufficiently recognize the just demands of charity, then charity must win out until civil law can be made to accomplish its ends by means allowable under the laws given to us by God. We are in a democracy. We cannot simply ignore laws that favor one good end over another good end in an unjust manner. We are bound to try to change the laws, so that all the just ends may be achieved, and to obey all laws and do what we can to honor all just ends as well as can be managed, in the meantime. Where the demands of justice can be met while also observing civil law, we must do that.

But I digress. We don’t want to turn this into a thread that belongs in the Moral Theology forum. I just want to say this, though: OP, the desire for a simplistic answer is not confined to one political leaning, I will grant you that. I apologize if I implied otherwise. That was not my intention.

That is all meaningless blather. Vagueness serves nothing. The Devil is in the details for a reason. Why aren’t we?

And the dismissal of a point of view as simplistic is a typical progressive tactic designed to insult the intellectual abilities of the other side. The Bible is incredibly simple because it is the truth. It’s simplicity is not a weakness. It is man that complicates things to excuse his own actions or inactions.

 

[Tietjen]

For what it is worth, I am very much in favor of streamlining the process of legal immigration, and being more welcoming to the “low education” group if this is a problem too, but saying that enforcing our *current *laws is uncharitable seems odd to me, especially when there does exist a very real threat to our safety, from the drug wars to terrorism.

Well, then you agree with the USCCB because they are NOT saying "Drop the borders and let everyone in. They ARE calling for immigration reform which includes placing those who are here illegally on a “work program” which will allow them to become citizens over time; at the same time, enacting a more vigilant screening system to keep the bad guys out; etc. Basically, the USCCB does not want to play politics nor does it wish to disregard U.S. laws. Instead, it wants to see those laws reformed so that families can eventually be together, criminals are kept out, hard working men and women earn a decent wage, and families (in this country or another) are not left to starve because of uncaring laws regarding national borders.

Some, only see this as a situation where if we let allow illegal immigrants to stay, we’re risking another 9/11 or those illegal immigrants will take away a job that they may have wanted to do. But the facts don’t support their case and to deny millions the ability to provide for their families at the cost of a “what if” is ludicrous when an actual very real problem such as families suffering already is happening.

 

[Tietjen]

That is all meaningless blather. Vagueness serves nothing. The Devil is in the details for a reason. Why aren’t we?

And the dismissal of a point of view as simplistic is a typical progressive tactic designed to insult the intellectual abilities of the other side. The Bible is incredibly simple because it is the truth. It’s simplicity is not a weakness. It is man that complicates things to excuse his own actions or inactions.

Blather? Really? The Bible teaches charity.
(How’s that for keeping it simple?)