Looking for Eastern Rite Churches in Communion with the Holy See, but, not connected with the USCCB

[twf]

That being said, not all members of the USCCB think alike!

It sounds like you currently have a very Latin mentality. Have you considered seeking out a FSSP parish? They operate under local ordinaries but are run by members of an order dedicated to preserving and celebrating the Tridentine form of the Holy Mass and other sacraments. FSSP priests have been formed in their own traditional seminaries. I live in Canada, and in my diocese (the Archdiocese of Vancouver) there is an FSSP parish…and it’s wonderful! The order’s website can be found here: fssp.org/.

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

RCIADan, it is nice to see people desiring to enter an Eastern Church. I recommend the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church as the one which has retained it’s integrity the most, as Fr. Robert Taft will attest to in his book about them. The Melkites are the closest to being Eastern Orthodox Catholic without actually being it. The Ukrainian Church is a close competitor in this regard they are second best, to my knowledge. I havent been able to explore those of the oriental tradition because there arent any around me that aren’t latinized to their detriment, except possibly a Malankara mission therefore I can not offer advice about them…except that many of them have in the USA less Icons than the Byzantine tradition (though the Malankara Papal Catholics still do not allow married men as priests otherwise they are liturgically flawless).

As far as I know only the Melkite and Ukrainian Churches actually have many married men who were ordained priests on North American soil serving in this country. (the other Churches only have ones who were ordained outside North America, if any at all)

St Jude (395) 856-1500 in Miami and St Nicholas (561) 701-0767 in Delray Beach are the only two Melkite Churches I know of in Florida.

These are the two Ukrainian Churches I know of in Florida, which look very appealing to me.

Epiphany of Our Lord Ukrainian Catholic Church
434 90th Ave. N.
St. Petersburg, Fl. 33702
Phone: (727) 576-1001

Presentation Of the Most Holy Mother of God Ukrainian Catholic Church (St.Mary’s)

1078 North Biscayne Drive
North Port, FL 34287
Phone: (941) 426-7931

The interesting thing that you may find happen is that the more time you spend in an Eastern Catholic Church the more your view of the papacy may be challenged. The more in common you will have with the Eastern Orthodox, this could be seen as a dangerous influence to some people. That has at least been my experience, I think it’s inevitable for most others to experience this. Be careful what you ask for.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

RCIADan, it is nice to see people desiring to enter an Eastern Church. I recommend the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church as the one which has retained it’s integrity the most, as Fr. Robert Taft will attest to in his book about them. The Melkites are the closest to being Eastern Orthodox without actually being it.

On the other end of that, I don’t think it is entirely fair - the implication that the rest of us have some how lost our integrity.

My Ruthenian parish in this city is Eastern, until the careful observer noticed the icon in the back of the parish church of St. Francis (Donated by a parishoner of blessed memory) could just as easily think it an Orthodox. Having said that, I don’t think that it could or should be said that other parishes that have been Latinized to any different degree could or should be thought of as having “less integrity”. The history of these communities are varied, complicated, and not so easily reduced.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<If I transfer, it will be after fully investigating the theology of the particular Rite. I will not be running away so much as finding home.>>

Dear rciadan,

Some of the most unhappy people in the world are those who began attending Eastern Catholic Churches under the mistaken impression they would be just like they remembered Roman/Latin parishes from the 50’s.

These people would be among the first to fight true Eastern customs such as putting up icon screens, getting rid of ill-advised (and actually illegal) Latinisms, liturgy in the vernacular, permanent deacons, and the like.

Those who accept the Eastern Catholic churches on their own terms–that is, being churches with entirely different spiritual heritages from the Roman Church, nevertheless in full communion with her–find their Eastern experience more spiritually satisfactory.

And don’t waste your time looking for an Eastern Catholic Church in communion with the pope that’s not part of the USCCB. That’s a fantasy. However many of them, such as the Melkite bishop, retain a seat on the Holy Synod of the respective Eastern Catholic Patriarchates/Major Archbishoprics as well.

 

[rciadan]

That being said, not all members of the USCCB think alike!

It sounds like you currently have a very Latin mentality. Have you considered seeking out a FSSP parish? They operate under local ordinaries but are run by members of an order dedicated to preserving and celebrating the Tridentine form of the Holy Mass and other sacraments. FSSP priests have been formed in their own traditional seminaries. I live in Canada, and in my diocese (the Archdiocese of Vancouver) there is an FSSP parish…and it’s wonderful! The order’s website can be found here: fssp.org/.

Are you saying that they are like SSPX except still in full Comunion with the Holy See?

 

[w_stewart]

What do the acronyms USCCB and SSPX stand for?

 

[rciadan]

RCIADan, it is nice to see people desiring to enter an Eastern Church. I recommend the Melkite Greek-Catholic Church as the one which has retained it’s integrity the most, as Fr. Robert Taft will attest to in his book about them. The Melkites are the closest to being Eastern Orthodox Catholic without actually being it. The Ukrainian Church is a close competitor in this regard they are second best, to my knowledge. I havent been able to explore those of the oriental tradition because there arent any around me that aren’t latinized to their detriment, except possibly a Malankara mission therefore I can not offer advice about them…except that many of them have in the USA less Icons than the Byzantine tradition (though the Malankara Papal Catholics still do not allow married men as priests otherwise they are liturgically flawless).

As far as I know only the Melkite and Ukrainian Churches actually have many married men who were ordained priests on North American soil serving in this country. (the other Churches only have ones who were ordained outside North America, if any at all)

St Jude (395) 856-1500 in Miami and St Nicholas (561) 701-0767 in Delray Beach are the only two Melkite Churches I know of in Florida.

These are the two Ukrainian Churches I know of in Florida, which look very appealing to me.

Epiphany of Our Lord Ukrainian Catholic Church
434 90th Ave. N.
St. Petersburg, Fl. 33702
Phone: (727) 576-1001

Presentation Of the Most Holy Mother of God Ukrainian Catholic Church (St.Mary’s)

1078 North Biscayne Drive
North Port, FL 34287
Phone: (941) 426-7931

The interesting thing that you may find happen is that the more time you spend in an Eastern Catholic Church the more your view of the papacy may be challenged. The more in common you will have with the Eastern Orthodox, this could be seen as a dangerous influence to some people. That has at least been my experience, I think it’s inevitable for most others to experience this. Be careful what you ask for.

Alas, they are very far south for me. I know of them. I am located 100 miles north.

 

[Woodstock]

What do the acronyms USCCB and SSPX stand for?

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and Society of Saint Pius X. FSSP is the Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri, or Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter.

Are you saying that they are like SSPX except still in full Comunion with the Holy See?

Yes, that is a nutshell way of describing the FSSP. Here are their Florida Masses:

St. Martha’s Church
200 N Orange Ave
Sarasota, FL 34236

Masses:
Sun. 13.30
Mon. to Fri. 12.00 (Starting on Sept 17th)
Holy Days and First Fri. 12.45
First Sat. 9.15

Contact: +1 785 845-1731

St. Agnes’ Church
7775 Vanderbilt Beach Rd.
Naples, FL 34120

Masses:
Sun., May - November 8.00
Sun., November - May 7.00

(During May and November please call to know what Sunday the Mass will switch to the different hour)
*Friday and Saturday Masses are still not determined at this time.

Contact: +1 785 845-1731

 

[Volodymyr_988]

It looks like your only Eastern Catholic parishes are Ruthenian/Byzantine. That eparchy might also undergo some massive changes if someone like Bishop John is appointed as Bishop Andrew’s eventual successor.

I’d like to know what this statement means.

 

[Woodstock]

I’d like to know what this statement means.

Bishop John is actively pro-Eastern. He wears the traditional Eastern vestments, is actively ordaining married men, is supporting the efforts of Fr. Thomas Loya at Annunciation in Illinois. Bishop Andrew is not known for these things. If someone like Bishop John succeeded Bishop Andrew, the eparchy could look very different in 5-10 years.

 

[Amadeus]

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and Society of Saint Pius X. FSSP is the Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri, or Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter.

Yes, that is a nutshell way of describing the FSSP. Here are their Florida Masses:

St. Martha’s Church
200 N Orange Ave
Sarasota, FL 34236

Masses:
Sun. 13.30
Mon. to Fri. 12.00 (Starting on Sept 17th)
Holy Days and First Fri. 12.45
First Sat. 9.15

Contact: +1 785 845-1731

St. Agnes’ Church
7775 Vanderbilt Beach Rd.
Naples, FL 34120

Masses:
Sun., May - November 8.00
Sun., November - May 7.00

(During May and November please call to know what Sunday the Mass will switch to the different hour)
*Friday and Saturday Masses are still not determined at this time.

Contact: +1 785 845-1731

I think most, if not all, of the organizers and first members of the FSSP (founded in 1988) were former SSPX priests and seminarians?

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

I am in agreement with his Eminences’ statement

Some of the most unhappy people in the world are those who began attending Eastern Catholic Churches under the mistaken impression they would be just like they remembered Roman/Latin parishes from the 50’s.

These people would be among the first to fight true Eastern custom

For me by the Grace of God I am the most happy, not the least happy. Although I came to realize that the parishes of the 50’s were an improvement over today for me the differences were not profound enough. I am unusual in that I desired the true Western Customs from before 1200 A.D. at the latest and before 800 A.D. at the earliest (no ash wednesday and no suppression of gallican liturgy). I want the true authentic late antique Western Church. So for me the Eastern Church matches this in all the most important ways. As I’ve pointed out before the use of anti-doron is an ancient western custom which was brought to the East in the 6th century from North West Africa, perhaps because of Belisaurius military campaigns there. Although this is unusual other similar examples exist. There is an Icon fresco on the wall of a Roman Church called Santa Maria Antiqua made in 767 AD in which Western and Eastern saints stand next to each other with Christ in the center and they have no significant differences from each other. This is what the model should be for the future, to regain this unity and similarity to each other, while retaining more subtle differences which show our unique - but not as profoundly different as today - cultures.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6656/0757767adsantamariaantixo5.jpg

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

On the other end of that, I don’t think it is entirely fair - the implication that the rest of us have some how lost our integrity.

My Ruthenian parish in this city is Eastern, until the careful observer noticed the icon in the back of the parish church of St. Francis (Donated by a parishoner of blessed memory) could just as easily think it an Orthodox.

The Melkite and Ukrainian Churches are not doing “Revised Divine Liturgy” in the spirit of Vatican II. What am I supposed to call this if it has nothing to do with integrity? I feel sorry for people who have to accept this situation. Perhaps I am confused and misguided. There’s a forum dedicated to revision it must be important?

byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/postlist/Board/15/page/1

As for St Francis Icons I thought it would be useful to show the most authentic ones that I have ever discovered to exist.

These come from the period of time known as the “Dugento” in italian sacred art. The Dugento is very beloved to me as it represents a time when italy was strictly basing it’s designs on a mixture of late antique western roman and current byzantine iconography and was actually proud of this believing them to have been of “apostolic origins” or some similar idea… This was the time before Giotto and Duccio before any significant humanism and emotionalism entered to change it into something else. this page gives some good comparisons to illustrate differences:

employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/ARTH/arth213/dugento.html

img204.imageshack.us/img204/9972/1235adstfrancisandscenedx2.jpg

1235 AD - St. Francis and Scene From His Life, by Bonaventura Berlinghieri, Chiesa di San Francesco, Pescia, Italia

img204.imageshack.us/img204/9793/124050adstfrancisreceivya6.jpg

1240-50 AD - St Francis Receiving the Stigmata by Bonaventura Berlinghieri, Tempera on wood, Galleria degli Uffizi, Florence, Italia

 

[Woodstock]

I think most, if not all, of the organizers and first members of the FSSP (founded in 1988) were former SSPX priests and seminarians?

I am not well versed in their history but I believe they were set-up for returning SSPX priests. There are other societies which also use the TLM, but I don’t know which are in Florida.

Here’s a list of 12 parishes with TLMs in Florida, some of them exclusively. It says the list is only of churches in full union with Rome.

 

[rciadan]

I am not well versed in their history but I believe they were set-up for returning SSPX priests. There are other societies which also use the TLM, but I don’t know which are in Florida.

Here’s a list of 12 parishes with TLMs in Florida, some of them exclusively. It says the list is only of churches in full union with Rome.

Jensen BeachPorres ChurchBishop:Gerald M. Barbarito2555 NE SavannahMass times:Sun: 3:00 PM.Rd.Source(s):E, K, T34958Contact(s):Fr. Thomas J RynnePho.:(772) 334-4214Fax.:(772) 334-8627E-mail:martind@bellsouth.net
This is my parish. Father Rynn is often referred to as “Saint Walking”! He has been a priest for fifty one years and there is not a soul on earth who would say anything about him but the best!

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<This is my parish. Father Rynn is often referred to as “Saint Walking”! He has been a priest for fifty one years and there is not a soul on earth who would say anything about him but the best!>>

Isn’t it a joy to meet people like that?

Among my acquaintances is an old Ukrainian Catholic baba who not only knows Jesus; she holds His hand!

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I extend my thanks to alll who have provided so much info! I will make no rash decisions. I am not asking for easy or overnight scenarios. If anyone promised such, I would be extremely suspect. I was hoping that there would be a Traditional Latin Rite Church soon that would be in Communion with Rome but not subject to the N.O. Bishops. The Moto Proprio promised is meeting with great resistance from a great deal of our “wonderful” bishops and may well turn out to be nothing by the time they get done with it. It also does not seem to be at all independent of thier power and influence. The theology these bishops are teaching and the statements they are making are not of God and I must protect the souls of my children. This is my Sacramental duty to God, Himself, and I will do what I must, even if it means “going forth out of my country…to the land that I shall shew thee.”

Your last comment reminds me of our parish priest, a self described “recovering Episcopalian.” He said that when he realized that he was protecting his children from his church, he realized it was time to go.

 

[Future_Prodigy]

I’ll say a prayer for your and your family’s journey!

If you are currently inclined to the strongly Latin theology and spirituality

What does this mean exactly? Where would one go to read the differences in theology and spirtuality of the east and west?

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

i’ve been consistently going to a byzantine church for over a year because i didn’t find a latin rite parish nearby that offered the extraordinary form. i enjoy eastern spirituality–especially the liturgy and iconography. our priest and almost all of the parish are originally roman rite so we struggle with the music.

i do miss gregorian chant and silence. i’m very much attached to the traditions of the roman rite. i feel somewhat out of place. so it’s difficult.

 

[Aramis]

Are you saying that they are like SSPX except still in full Comunion with the Holy See?

No. They are quite unlike the SSPX since they’ve been very loyal to the Church, unlike the SSPX, haven’t elected excommunicated individuals to run their priestly society, etc…

They are, however, strongly tradtitionalist, use the “Extraordinary Form” of the Roman Mass (the 62 missal), and still hold to the old ways. Including obedience to the Pope.