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Mike_from_NJ
Guest
Some of Scripture is merely history. Details. Nothing wrong with that. People are born, live their lives, have children, go to war, murder and enslave each other, and die. They build things and record the dimensions in mind numbing lists. The writers record these things. They attempt to discern God’s will in all these events. The truth is not that people live and act and build things. The truth is that through all these trials and failures, God’s story continues…his invitation to mankind to love him and each other continues, despite our stupidity. Much of the OT is incidental human details., but God’s truth runs throughout.3) God inspires scripture to say the exact opposite of its literal meaning.
But how can God’s truth run throughout if it’s completely and totally untrue from God’s perspective. At no point is there a correction. Never does Jesus, who was quite familiar with the scriptures, tell us God’s true meaning.
That is easily debatable, unfortunately I don’t have the time to cite numerous scripture passages on a Saturday morning. God’s love and respect for the human dignity of every person is in there from the beginning from “He created them in his image”. The ancient mind did not have the same sensitivities to scripture we do. We can’t impose our minds on those of other cultures and times. We don’t really know how they thought. Understanding of God unfolds through time.4) There is no allegorical or figurative reading of the scripture that shows God is against slavery.
Can you cite one? If each and every passage that approves of slavery is incorrect from God’s persepective, how do we know what is intended when God says to love one another. It may be like the Indian caste system where respect is given based on position and birth, and when he says to love someone it means different things depending on if the person is a slave or a free man. Sure it’s speculation on my end; but when there are so many variables missing that we can’t know what God truly means from passage to passage we have to figure what works best.
Absolutely not. I accept that humans are riddled with flaws. Above I quoted Thomas Jefferson, a man I deeply respect despite his owning of slaves. But though I understand man’s flaws each man must take credit or blame for their actions. This isn’t someone being unaware of a point of fact and acting accordingly. Instead these are people who have some inkling of the human condition and were able to push those notions aside to justify owning slaves.Would you be willing to consider that as an atheist, you have the interesting viewpoint that humans should be like gods, perfect in expression and without biases or flaw? It takes a lot of belief to reject humanity’s weaknesses and expect godlike perfection from them.
You’re mixing up human nature with God’s nature. Inspiration means the scriptures accomplish God’s purposes. It doesn’t mean that human beings give perfect expression of God’s will. It doesn’t mean that everything expressed is literally God’s will.6) Despite the fact that scripture runs completely counter to what is intended and it is completely devoid of truth it was still inspired by God.
Why would God inspire verses to help propagate a practice that you and I both agree is wrong at its core?
How can we assume that it’s not God contradicting himself? All it does is raise further questions. When you say that scripture must be read in the light of the person of Jesus Christ, it makes it sound as though we are supposed to start with a conclusion and to set aside those items which contradict that conclusion.The final product you refer to is embodied in the Gospel, which is Jesus Christ. The faith is not a book, it is a person. Jesus is God’s only and final word. There is nothing else that can be revealed. Jesus is it. The whole of scripture must be read in light of the person of Jesus Christ.
Our understanding of God’s will as expressed through Christ flourishes through time. God is always teaching us, and we learn slowly. God cannot contradict himself, human beings are contradicting. If humans inadequately express God’s will, that is not God’s fault, it is human fault.
Inspired scripture is not literal and fundamentalist as you are making it. Scripture is a living thing, as Jesus Christ lives. The Church expresses the truth of the Gospel over the centuries. The Church teaches the Gospel that every human person has God-given dignity. This is the light the scriptures must be read in. If read in the spirit of doubt and criticism, the truth of Jesus Christ cannot shine through. If the Church preaches the living Gospel, why do we want to stay stuck in mistaken notions of the past?
The problem is that God is said to be unchanging. The portrait of God changes from Old Testament to New. It’s not like the example you gave of an incorrect scientific theory being passed on forever. When something a scientist said turns out to be incorrect, we don’t then say that the scientist never said that. Facts are updated. Mistakes are recorded and not erased.If you were a science teacher would you latch on the ancient notion that the earth is flat and hold the study of science to that mistaken notion? No, you go with the fullest understanding that has been revealed.