looking to convert from mormon to catholic

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(name removed by moderator),

Well, the claim of giving a person a choice isn’t consistent with the Mormon rites.

There is no offer of freedom to choose as the rites clearly reveal:
The dead are Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained: ldsendowment.org/baptism.html

Peace,
Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
(name removed by moderator),

Well, the claim of giving a person a choice isn’t consistent with the Mormon rites.

There is no offer of freedom to choose as the rites clearly reveal:
The dead are Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained: ldsendowment.org/baptism.html

Peace,
Anna
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I feel asolutely and deeply insulted by the freedom LDS takes in using the Holy name of Christianity and adding things just to justify their existence that are the most theological heretic things Christianity has ever experienced ( of course for me that I don’t believe neither in Joseph Smith revelations or he was a prophet), but regarding this point I have to say that they actually teach in their doctrine classes the theory of a baptism that can be accepted or not accepted by the dead receiving it.
I think it is an acceptable thing to say since it is like saying if you don’t want to be baptized and your heart is not to become a Christian and somebody tight your hand and legs and baptize you I don’t think you are baptized by the act itself, you have to accept it in your heart.
This is my view.
If what mormons teach in classes is not the same of their original doctrine I cannot say since I didn’t do any research about it neither I am willing to.
But in their doctrine classes I can positivle affirm they teach the freedom of accepting it.
 
I dont think anyone should be offended or insulted by the sincere love and devotion that Mormons have for Christ.

Their understanding of Christ and His nature is distorted, but the love and intent in their hearts is genuine is sincere.

I have no doubt that God, in His Mercy, isn’t discounting their love, their devotion, even if it is disordered.

They are going by what little light, little truth that they have and doing the best that they can well as they can by how they understand God.

Pray for them. There is a great harvest to be had with in the Mormon and former Mormon communities.
 
Marie5890 said:
I dont think anyone should be offended or insulted by the sincere love and devotion that Mormons have for Christ.

Their understanding of Christ and His nature is distorted, but the love and intent in their hearts is genuine is sincere.

I have no doubt that God, in His Mercy, isn’t discounting their love, their devotion, even if it is disordered.

They are going by what little light, little truth that they have and doing the best that they can well as they can by how they understand God.

Pray for them. There is a great harvest to be had with in the Mormon and former Mormon communities.
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I usually pray more for somebody when I feel they are insulting what for me is Holy Christianity. The fact of me feeling insulted in my faith, wheter I should not feel offended or not it is the way I feel, doesn’t take me away from praying for them; quite the contrary!
As far as concern their intentions and devotion I don’t have doubt about it.
But Christianity is not about doing our way, the way we feel more appropriate, but doing His way, Jesus way, the way He spoke in the NT. If not what about the rich young men, or the phareisen, they were doing absolutely their best?
Trying to follow our own way can be very tricky. As prophetazied by Isaiah, He will come for who lost their way directed by bad sheaperds. Jesus came to protect us from ourselves, to trust in His word no in ourselves or anybody else word. This to avoid, who were willing to follow Him, to get lost even in good faith, because without Him (and of course His teaching) we cannot do anything.

Thanks for checking with me this. If I was not already doing it would be a nice thing to point out.👍
 
Anna_Scott said:
(name removed by moderator),

Well, the claim of giving a person a choice isn’t consistent with the Mormon rites.

There is no offer of freedom to choose as the rites clearly reveal:
The dead are Baptized, Confirmed, and Ordained: ldsendowment.org/baptism.html

Peace,
Anna
Click to expand...
truthsave said:
I feel asolutely and deeply insulted by the freedom LDS takes in using the Holy name of Christianity and adding things just to justify their existence that are the most theological heretic things Christianity has ever experienced ( of course for me that I don’t believe neither in Joseph Smith revelations or he was a prophet), but regarding this point I have to say that they actually teach in their doctrine classes the theory of a baptism that can be accepted or not accepted by the dead receiving it.
I think it is an acceptable thing to say since it is like saying if you don’t want to be baptized and your heart is not to become a Christian and somebody tight your hand and legs and baptize you I don’t think you are baptized by the act itself, you have to accept it in your heart.
This is my view.
If what mormons teach in classes is not the same of their original doctrine I cannot say since I didn’t do any research about it neither I am willing to.
But in their doctrine classes I can positivle affirm they teach the freedom of accepting it.
Click to expand...
truthsave,

The LDS may be teaching offering a soul the freedom to choose Baptism after death; but there is no freedom or asking involved in the rituals. They will baptize, confirm, ordain, or even seal the dead to a wife—there is no place in the rites that offers a choice.

Peace,
Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
truthsave,

The LDS may be teaching offering a soul the freedom to choose Baptism after death; but there is no freedom or asking involved in the rituals. They will baptize, confirm, ordain, or even seal the dead to a wife—there is no place in the rites that offers a choice.

Peace,
Anna
Click to expand...
Thank you for pointing it out. It is an extremely important point.
If they are true to the doctrine they teach they should say it during the rituals.
God Bless
 
Anna_Scott said:
truthsave,

The LDS may be teaching offering a soul the freedom to choose Baptism after death; but there is no freedom or asking involved in the rituals. They will baptize, confirm, ordain, or even seal the dead to a wife—there is no place in the rites that offers a choice.

Peace,
Anna
Click to expand...
The correct understanding of Baptisms for the Dead is that the individual has the freedom to accept or deny the work that has been done for them. I was married to a LDS member for 7 years and it has always been explained by EVERYONE that this is the intent since free will is SO stressed. From their perspective, it’s the same as us praying for the souls in purgatory. They do not see the harm.

I remember when my wife did the work for her Catholic grandfather and I simply told her I didn’t want to hear about it. Oh my, I believe that was the beginning to the end of my marriage. For LDS, it’s mandatory for them to do the work while they maintain the individuals have the choice to accept or reject it. In their opinion, the individual is screwed if the LDS church is right and no one does the work versus if the Catholics are right, then no harm was committed. It’s not like they dunked a dead body…:rolleyes:

That said, as a Catholic, I would still prefer that the ordinance not be performed for me. Since half my family is LDS though, I’m a realist about my wishes being honored. Oh well.
 
Cowboy Pete,

I am keeping you in prayers and always try to pray for the Mormon followers.
 
There was a post here a few months ago, that was the Vatican’s response in I think May of 2008 or so, of blocking Mormons from gaining access to our sacramental records…The Mormons claimed to have hit a gold mine of genealogy of priest and religious records going back 1,000 years.

These are indeed sacramental records. And the fact that these were Catholics who made a most resolute decision to give their entire lives to Christ…in lieu of the fact that Mormonism does not value or see any sense in consecrated lives who had vocations to serve the Church.

What was disturbing, however, was that the Mormons took offense to the Vatican decision, and didn’t see anything wrong gaining our records to use as a means to bring deceased, consecrated Catholics a chance to change their minds and Mormonism. The Vatican responded that this decision should not in any way be taken to stop dialogue.

At death, we are not given choices about what church to sign up. Instead, we are now able to face God. Again, Catholicism is based on the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is not about a church in itself, but about Truth found only in Jesus Christ.

Mormonism is in its own competition with the Catholic Church and seeks to become some day the one world religion, its quest akin to Islam’s.
 
Yes, there have been others…

The Mormon scholars for the past several years having been taking ancient Church fathers to prove Joseph Smith was right all along in their misinterpretation of such records…they completely contradict St. Athanasius who taught Christ was of the same substance as God, always was, never a man. Acutally, St. Athanasius was trying to prevent what a belief system as Mormonism professes. They use CCC 460 to prove their point about progression to become a god vs the real understanding…that we partake in the divine life of grace through the Eucharist. They also misrepresent St. Irenaeus to the Mormon people. So it is this ongoing problem within Mormonism of making conjecturing or stories of ancient tribes as fact.

They reject ancient Christian history, practices, the Mass, but readily believe in the stories of Joseph Smith and circumstantial evidence that it was others who put the book of Mormon together.

Much of the tithing is to build Temples as these are the places where they bring in new converts…through baptism and sealing. The more temples are placed throughout the world, then in their beliefs, Mormonism will be the top religion. People outside the USA do not know about Mormonism or how many times it has changed its beliefs.

A Catholic here on CAF was drawing on links proving past Mormon beliefs to young Mormons who adamantly were opposing such a thing. The Catholic poster would go back to find the link withdrawn.
 
This whole situation is what discouraged me from trying to trace our own family history. I found out that many of the popular sources of those histories were either created by Mormons, or allow them to have full access to all of those records. It’s sad that anyone who just wants to find information about family history runs the risk that whatever information on family is entered into those databases, will most likely have LDS Baptizing them as LDS.
 
John Paul II was baptized by Mormons, at present count, 6 times, and the San Diego broke protocol and made him a member of this religion.

God has given us all the time and grace we need to either accept or deny Him.

I would also add there is only One Lord and One Baptism Who fully revealed Himself to us 2,000 years ago. Stay with that secure conviction…
 
KathleenGee said:
John Paul II was baptized by Mormons, at present count, 6 times, and the San Diego broke protocol and made him a member of this religion.

God has given us all the time and grace we need to either accept or deny Him.

I would also add there is only One Lord and One Baptism Who fully revealed Himself to us 2,000 years ago. Stay with that secure conviction…
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You know usually I just read thru the different threads and very seldom do I post a reply. However if what you said is true; it is very hurtful, disrepectful and just plan wrong. The LDS Baptisms for the Dead, are meaningless in my opinion and are nothing more than part of a fairytale religion of make believe. But the fact the the LDS Church would let someone perform this act (6 times) on such a important figure in our Church, is just wrong and their disrepect is hurtful. I think that the Catholic Church as a whole should do something about it, prevent it from happening again.
 
KathleenGee said:
John Paul II was baptized by Mormons, at present count, 6 times, and the San Diego broke protocol and made him a member of this religion.

God has given us all the time and grace we need to either accept or deny Him.

I would also add there is only One Lord and One Baptism Who fully revealed Himself to us 2,000 years ago. Stay with that secure conviction…
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This is absolutely unacceptable and everybody I say everybody belonging to this organization have to be hold responsible for something like that. Since they support it.
Something has to be done
And doing it shows a total absence of respect and a blind prideness and arrogance since the way they do implicit means a spiritual charity.

If they do it is because they judge the life of that non mormon has spiritually unispired.
They surely would do the same with St. Francis or St. Ephrem or St. Seraphim any Christian Saint. Because they wer spiritually unispired.
And they would not feel anything bad in doing it.
Somebody has to make them realize this is not correct no matter what they think about it.
mormonism is the supremacy of the personal emotive being.
A strong position has to be taken against this practice.
 
The original poster wishes to convert to Catholicism which leads me to assume he/she know something about it, and has some knowledge of the foundation upon which the Church stands. The next step is find and attend a church if not already doing so, and discuss RCIA with a priest and attend the meetings in which Catholic truth will be taught. It takes a while, there is no rush in this, and discussion is encouraged. The fact that being a member of the Mormon faith is not that important, the important thing is that, like the rest of us this person is a sinner seeking communion with Christ. Whether he/she chooses to officially leave the LDS is their decision to make, maybe at some later stage, or maybe not at all, the important thing is to move on into the Faith he/she has chosen, and then make these decisions when this person feels they are at the right stage to deal with them. The Mormon faith is built on Joseph Smith and has evolved its beliefs from him and his prophets, but they are not truth, they have no foundation in truth. Their programme of working out their salvation based on their works is fruitless, and a waste of time, and have no power whatsoever, so all their activities such as baptising the dead carry no weight with God. So having your name officially removed is not necessary in the eyes of God I am sure, but if it is something needed to tie up loose ends then that’s ok too, but not necessary… Becoming a Christian in its truist and purist form is all that is needed, if the sacrament of Baptism is required then rejoice, move onto confirmation and partaking in th Eucharist then rejoice all the more, because you have come home to Him…Allelujah
 
We know that these so called baptisms…which are done by LDS members to help them advance in their spiritual aims, and explains why the Temple parking lot is full of cars all hours of the day – I know as I live by one – have no merit before God.

And Mormon responses here usually imply that they see no harm in what they are doing. However, when the Vatican came out addrsesing the problem, there are those Mormons who found out, and it was a reason for them to leave the Mormon religion.

So called Mormon scholars are taking St. Ireaneus and St. Athanasius and parts of our catechism deliberately out of context, and teaching their followers misconstrued Catholic concepts, even to the point of contradicting St. Athanasius who was the force behind the Nicene Creed. What he foresaw in Arianism, was people misconstruing the divinity of Christ that would subsequently lead to multiple gods and paganism–polytheism of which Mormonism has been accused of.

It takes time for people who have been brought up in Mormonism to let go of their former orientation and emotional responses…it takes time for them to realize how much God truly loves them. And realizing how much God loves us takes many of us years to realize as well, irregardless of the correctness of faith.
 
John Paul II was asked if mormon baptisms were valid. He paused and thought about it and gave a simple, one word answer: “NEGATIVE” !

LDS are not “baptizing” with belief in
  1. the TRIUNE GOD - no trinitas here
  2. do not believe Jesus IS GOD!
So their baptisms for LIVING persons for naught or at least very suspect and baptisms for the dead a COMPLETE WASTE of TIME and ENERGY using VAIN GENEALOGIES.

JESUS NEVER spoke about baptism for the dead.
 
according to LDS’ : History of the Church, vol. 4, p.559, I Cor 15:29

"Chrysostum says that the Marchionites practiced baptism for their dead. “After a catechumen was dead, they had a living man under the bed of the deceased; then coming to the dead man, they asked him whether he would receive baptism, and he making no answer, the other answered for him and said that he would be baptized for the dead.” The church of course at that time was degenerate, and the particular form might be incorrect, but the thing is sufficiently plain in the Scriptures, hence Paul, in speaking of the doctrine, says, “else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptizing for the dead?”

The BRIDE OF CHRIST was referred to as “DEGENERATE”

→ Does Paul say “WE” are baptized for the dead? Not; He say “THEY” meaning those groups who were doing this at the time. So apparently those of a heretical persuasion baptized the dead - the Marcionites but not the Christians.

SCHEMA - Jews PRAYED for the DEAD. Also in Book of Maccabees.

I Cor 15:29 is the BEGINNING & the END of discussion of BAPTISM for the Dead; only place it’s mentioned in scriptures and a obvious example of SCRIPTURE TWISTING by another MAN-MADE SECT
 
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