Lord of the Rings question?

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I just watched all three “Lord of the Rings” movies ( yeah…I know, I’m a little behind) pretty impressive film making tho!
I read that J.R.R. Tolkien once called “Lord of the Rings” a fundamentally religious and Catholic work.
Other than seeing good vs evil and good winning out, lots of temptations but fortitude to resist evil. … what else have you guys seen that was Catholic about this film?
sorry if this has been hashed over before…just wanted some quick comments.
thanks!
 
The ring is a symbol for sin. the closer to sin we are, the further from God we are.

The suffering and sacrifice Frodo goes thru.

Gandalf the Grey dying and coming back as Gandalf the White.

The women are virginal
 
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Faustina:
The ring is a symbol for sin. the closer to sin we are, the further from God we are.

The suffering and sacrifice Frodo goes thru.

Gandalf the Grey dying and coming back as Gandalf the White.

The women are virginal
Elven Bread(The Eucharist)-one bites feed you for the whole day
 
The three main characters (Frodo, Gandalf and Aragorn) are each aspects of Christ-Frodo=Priest, Gandalf=Prophet, Aragorn=King.
although each becomes Christlike alone at times.
Gandalf “gives up his life for his friends”, Aragorn the rightful King in exile, “harrows Hell” and heals the sick, Frodo carries the Cross (the Ring). Sam (sounds like Simon!) helps Frodo bare the burden. Hobbits (their small size) represent Humility which is why they’re more resistant than others to the Ring’s influence. You can go on and on actually Lol…for example the Black Riders are described as “empty”, “shadows”, etc. which corresponds to St. Augustine’s description of evil as the absence of good.

I think that the three main female characters correspond to three aspects of Mary, i.e.-Arwen inspires, Galadriel gives council/shelter and Eowyn fights at your side. There’s a scene in the 1st movie where Galadriel looks like a Marian apparition!

There are many more examples. The movies are done well for the most part but you should read the books!
 
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kayla:
I just watched all three “Lord of the Rings” movies ( yeah…I know, I’m a little behind) pretty impressive film making tho!
I read that J.R.R. Tolkien once called “Lord of the Rings” a fundamentally religious and Catholic work.
Other than seeing good vs evil and good winning out, lots of temptations but fortitude to resist evil. … what else have you guys seen that was Catholic about this film?
sorry if this has been hashed over before…just wanted some quick comments.
thanks!

Personally, nothing - I’m more interested in the book’s use of mythic archetypes than in anything Christian there might be in it. And above all, I’m interested in the book as a story, and in how it connects with the rest of his myth.​

I think that trying to find allusions to Christianity in it is a mistake; it’s not an allegory, as Tolkien made perfectly clear, and still less is it a work of apologetic. As Tolkien was a Catholic, his own attitudes, whether about religion or about trees (say) are likely to have got into the book. But that does not make it an allegory any more than it makes it a book on trees: it is neither - it is “a really long story”, as he said it was. ##
 
Tolkien stated in his own writings that he “disliked” allegory (i.e. direct correspondence between characters and events in his literauture and events and characters in real life). But he did want his writings to be “applicable” to a variety of situations. He did not attempt to write a specifically religious work of fantasy the way C.S. Lewis did with his Chronicles of Narnia, but I think a person who is familiar with Catholicism will recognize recurring motifs of fall and redemption in his work. While I was surprised by how well the movies capture Tolkien’s thematic material, I believe the best thing to do is to read the books. Peter Jackson’s trilogy is great, but it is still, ultimately a very long, expensive, and visually stunning book report compared to the original.

Beyond that, if you can get hold of a copy of “The Silmarillion” that includes Tolkien’sletter to Milton Waldman explaining his material, he sheds som light on how his spirituality influenced his writing, and if you read the Silmarillion itself, you will see how it played out fairly clearly.

One thing that I find most intriguing is that ulrimately, every “fall” that occurs in Tolkien occurs because the character in question becomes too wrapped up in his (or her) own work and power: too attached to his contributions to the universe to realize that his ability to make that contribution is a gift, and that he needs others (such as companions or a creator) in order to use his talent in the fullest way possible.

I also enjoy how Tolkien portrays all of creation as a work of art, and the creative abilities of the beings that inhabit middle earth as something that is derived from and dependent upon that of “The One” who created them. He seems to say that what makes us in the image of God is our creative abilities/desires.

There are also hints at what the Church teaches about war, sin, the sacredness of life, and the ideal relationship between creation and those of us who inhabit it.

Fascinating stuff, in any case. 🙂
 
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MarkR:
I think that the three main female characters correspond to three aspects of Mary, i.e.-Arwen inspires, Galadriel gives council/shelter and Eowyn fights at your side. There’s a scene in the 1st movie where Galadriel looks like a Marian apparition!
This is an interesting idea. I don’t know if this is deliberate on Tolkien’s part or not, but I definitely believe that his writing indicates deep admiration for strong women. Perhaps the Blessed Mother has something to do with it! I agree that several of their traits reseble hers. His portrayals of Galadriel and Eowyn in LOTR and of Luthien in The Silmarillion are nothing short of radiant. Even Arwen, whose presence in the books is fairly minimal, still arrests one’s complete attention during all of her “screen time”. Galadriel is wise, Eowyn is brave and passionate, Arwen is silently patient, Luthien is loyal and courageous, and all of them are strong and beautiful and play crucial roles in the unfolding of events in Middle Earth.
 
Here are some examples from Fellowship of the Ring that I consider as Tolkien’s Catholic influence on PJ’s films:
  1. Bilbo’s Birthday Party: With its larger significance of the celebration of the Culture of Life: evidenced by humble innocence, peace, family (with lots of children!), breaking bread together, and belonging to community in the ordinary daily life of Hobbiton. Putting aside such things as Bilbo’s vanishing act and the chafing of playing host to the likes of Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, there is much evidence of childlike wonder and merriment, enjoyment of each other’s company, dance music and lit birthday candles (echos of Eru’s Music and the Light of the Blessed Realm?) the gathering of community to celebrate the special occasion of an individual … not because of his possessions or accomlishments (though it’s true Bilbo’s noteworthy for both), but for the greater reason that his life is a gift. As Hilaire Beloc once observed “Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, there’s music and laughter and good red wine.”
  2. The final scene with Boromir and Aragorn bears striking resemblance to a man on his deathbed receiving the Last Rites and making his final Confession to a priest. Aragorn even makes a reverent hand gesture similar to a priest making the Sign of the Cross, or giving a blessing, when Boromir dies. (Aragorn also makes a similar sign of reverence in the presence of the Shards of Narsil, the Sword that was Broken, as if those Shards were a religious relic to be venerated.)
  3. Lothlórien is very similar in looks to a place I’ve been to called the Sorrowful Mother Shrine in Bellevue, Ohio. Decay is coming inevitably to Lothlórien. If the Ring is not destroyed, Sauron will overpower the realm. If the Ring is destroyed, Galadriel’s ring will be unable to hinder the ravages of time. So either way, the golden mallorn leaves fall unto their ultimate extinction, the Elves plan leaving Middle Earth forever and sailing to the West. True to the book, the race of Elves shall diminish in favor of the new race of Men. And in Jerusalem, stone shall not be left upon stone, for this world is passing away, but there shall be a new heavens and a new Earth.
  4. Gandalf’s advice that we should make the most of the time we have in the face of adversity is very Catholic, (as opposed to people who would rather take what they see as the “easy way out” through despair, suicide, escape through drugs or alcohol, etc.), and the outlook that even such a life as Gollum’s should be spared and shown mercy.
  5. The scene where Arwen surrounded by light clings to Frodo and says an intercessory prayer for healing, “May any grace that is mine pass to him.” That is what the Mystical Body of Christ is all about, that we are all connected by prayer.
~~ the phoenix
 
I suggest reading The Philosophy of Tolkien (The worldview behind The Lord of the Rings. by Peter Kreeft.

I’m reading it now (not finished) and its very informative. In the back of the book is a concordance with tLotR books where you can look up topics ie:spiritual warfare, humility, obedience to authority etc. and actually see these topics treated in the books.

I would also suggest that you read the books themselves (from your post it looks like you’ve only seen the movies). The movies left alot out due to time constraints etc. The movies did an excellent job of protraying middle Earth and her characters, but the books (as always) are far better.
 
I read that J.R.R. Tolkien once called “Lord of the Rings” a fundamentally religious and Catholic work.
He did write that in a letter. Someone else also pointed out that Tolkien disliked allegory.

Those two things make Lord of the Rings interesting. Tolkien considered the work Catholic. Not allegorically Catholic, but fundamentally Catholic.

Lord of the Rings is interesting to me because it gives me an idea of what one individual Latin-Rite Catholic thinks is fundamentally Catholic.

For example. I find it interesting that Tolkien considers the work “fundamentally Catholic” when there is no Jesus contained therein.
 
I am particularly impressed with The Phoenix’ first point. The Shire is almost more Chestertonian than Chesterton; a society in which the small is celebrated. Small people in a small place, delighting greatly in their small pleasures; a society in which all are childlike in their innocence. Catholicism, properly understood, focuses on the same thing, and the social encyclicals powerfully support it. Subsidiarity; the devolving of authority and responsibility down to its most fundamental levels, particularly the family. The hobbits’ joys are earthly but innocent. Ale, a good pipe, simple food, simple but lovingly wraught dwellings and furnishings, fireworks, girlfriends, spouses, an old man with good stories, jokes and a ready smile. Yet all indulgence in the good things of the earth is moderate. No evident affairs, drunkenness, gluttony. No extravagance. That is the Catholic view of the world. It is opposed to, on the one hand, the puritanism that condemns drink, sex, dancing and the sweetness of the tobacco pipe, yet exalts the “cold delights” of aggrandizement and power. On the other hand, it is opposed to licentiousness. The hobbits are profoundly good-hearted and generous, even to the point of tremendous self-sacrifice. They remind one of nothing so much as Jesus’ charge “unless you become like little children…” But they also remind one very much of the social encyclicals, which really are unique to Catholicism.

Smeagal was once a hobbit. The ring of power, of aggrandizement, of freedom from restraint, corrupts him and splits his soul. The ring is more than power. It, itself is sin, with its deadly appeal to ambitions that yield no good or victory to its possessor, but can only serve the ultmate evil-Sauron. It is the Ultimate Lie. It is the core of all sin…the human attempt to be “like unto God”. It is sin that makes Smeagal a killer and gives birth to his evil “double”; Gollum. It is the source of the war within him. There’s a bit of Smeagal/Gollum in all of us, as much as our souls cry to be satisfied with our lives and our loves like uncorrupted hobbits.

Ultimately, an innocent takes upon himself the task of removing sin from as much of the world as he can manage and, in the meanwhile, gets wounded in the process, as he must look evil in the face to rid others of it. This is not “just” Christlike. It is the task of everyone who wants to be a true Christian. Mother Teresa, for example, got into the very heart of man’s inhumanity, looked it right in the eye, and was sorely wounded in the process. This is reminiscent of the “wounding” they say attends being an exorcist.

I’m not a literature expert. I’m inclined to agree with those who think the “direct” sort of allegory is not what the work is, or at least not completely so. Some efforts to say that this or that in the work is necessarily a direct parallel to something in Catholicism sometimes seem a bit overdone. But at the same time, the “life lessons”; the consideration of what is “true” and “false” in human nature, and the examination of good and evil do seem specifically Catholic to me. The work does make us think quite a bit about those things.

I am inclined to think the work is more “Catholic” in that sense than in the sense of being a series of symbolic parallels to Jesus, to Mary, etc. In a way, I think it’s a “mind trick” on Tolkien’s part. We really are pulled into thinking that Frodo, Aragorn and Gandalf are Jesus figures in some ways. But in other ways, they don’t quite fit, and in any event, there are too many of them, just as there are too many “Marys”, all of which vary a bit from each other. I think Tolkien wants us to see Christlike aspects that can appear in humans of different personalities, functions and characteristics, and thus in any one of us.
 
I just watched all three “Lord of the Rings” movies ( yeah…I know, I’m a little behind) pretty impressive film making tho!
I read that J.R.R. Tolkien once called “Lord of the Rings” a fundamentally religious and Catholic work.
Other than seeing good vs evil and good winning out, lots of temptations but fortitude to resist evil. … what else have you guys seen that was Catholic about this film?
sorry if this has been hashed over before…just wanted some quick comments.
thanks!
Im with you here.
 
If you want to understand what LOTR is about, don’t guess. Buy the Similirrion (sp?) and there is a letter from Tolkien as the first document in there explaining just what the LOTR is about.

I tried looking for it online, but I can’t find the text. It’s probably copyrighted. It is called “Letter #131” find it and your question will be answered.
 
The Fellowship of the 9. They were “sent” to accomplish a mission.

The Church was “sent” to accomplish a mission. “As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
 
I read that J.R.R. Tolkien once called “Lord of the Rings” a fundamentally religious and Catholic work.
Other than seeing good vs evil and good winning out, lots of temptations but fortitude to resist evil. … what else have you guys seen that was Catholic about this film?
sorry if this has been hashed over before…just wanted some quick comments. thanks!
I hope you don’t mind too much if my comment is not quick and addresses Tolkien’s original work, rather than the film version. I haven’t seen all three movies because I felt the that filmmakers distorted or eliminated the best quailities of the story in the first two movies, and I just couldn’t bear to watch The Return of the King get the same treatment.

I’ve really struggled to try and make this short (which it’s not) and consequently, I think there’s a lot more to say that I haven’t said.

The best way to address your question is to look at the way the “good guys” in the story behave. Frodo willingly accepts a very important task that he is not equipped to handle and that isn’t (directly) his responsibility at all. Nonetheless, he does his best to complete it in the face of impossible circumstances, the weakness and failings of those who ought help him and his own weaknesses and failings- all the while unable to see how he can ever succeed.

All those who try to preserve the good in Middle Earth repeatedly choose the right course of action even though it often seems foolish or futile and they cannot see the ultimate outcome of their actions; avoiding temptations do what seems easiest or fastest instead of best or to simply succumb to despair.

This is exactly what we as Catholics are called to in this life: to take up whatever task is allotted to us and persevere, despite our sins and failings and the ravages of evil in the world, avoiding the temptation to take the easiest road rather than follow God’s law or the temptation to despair and give up in the face of obstacles, believing and hoping that through God’s grace, we will not ultimately fail.

The reader of the Lord of the Rings gets the impression that something, some force for good (though it’s not named or revealed in the story) enables the good characters to complete their tasks and depart Middle Earth in peace. I think a Catholic reader would recognize this something as grace (or it’s analogy; I know Tolkein’s world isn’t ours.)

Like Flannery O’Connor, I think a story that shows the action grace is a Catholic story and Tolkien’s description of his own work is accurate.
 
Sorry for not really answering the question, but I love LOTR.

As a matter of fact I just started reading the book( for the 4th time) again a few days ago.

I’ll watch the movie for the forth time after Lent.

👍 👍
 
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