Lord's Supper

[ajcstr]

There was an earlier thread related to Non-Catholics not being permitted to participate in Catholic Communion. Funny enough I was thinking about it during communion on Sunday and a slightly different question came to my mind.

Since Anglicans and Lutherans generally believe that Christ is physically present in the bread and wine and Baptists and Presbyterians generally believe in a symbolic presence, what is the experience when an Anglican/Lutheran participates in the Lord’s Supper at a Baptist/Presbyterian church and vice versa? Is it ever an issue for the person receiving if the Church they are in views it differently?

 

[peter26]

I can tell you the Church of England’s stance: you can receive Communion if you would normally do so in your own church.

 

[MichaelP3]

There was an earlier thread related to Non-Catholics not being permitted to participate in Catholic Communion. Funny enough I was thinking about it during communion on Sunday and a slightly different question came to my mind.

Since Anglicans and Lutherans generally believe that Christ is physically present in the bread and wine and Baptists and Presbyterians generally believe in a symbolic presence, what is the experience when an Anglican/Lutheran participates in the Lord’s Supper at a Baptist/Presbyterian church and vice versa? Is it ever an issue for the person receiving if the Church they are in views it differently?

I can neither confirm or deny to know. But I would say the “meaning” is very much in your faith and belief one way or the other!

 

[GKC]

There was an earlier thread related to Non-Catholics not being permitted to participate in Catholic Communion. Funny enough I was thinking about it during communion on Sunday and a slightly different question came to my mind.

Since Anglicans and Lutherans generally believe that Christ is physically present in the bread and wine and Baptists and Presbyterians generally believe in a symbolic presence, what is the experience when an Anglican/Lutheran participates in the Lord’s Supper at a Baptist/Presbyterian church and vice versa? Is it ever an issue for the person receiving if the Church they are in views it differently?

Not something I would do,myself. No point in it.

 

[ajcstr]

Not something I would do,myself. No point in it.

What? Receive in another church?

 

[ajcstr]

I can tell you the Church of England’s stance: you can receive Communion if you would normally do so in your own church.

Right, I understand the stance. What I am saying is suppose an Anglican that went to a Presbyterian service. Would the fact that the bread and wine/juice was viewed as a symbol but you believed in the real presence, wouldn’t that be a personal dilemma? Other side, if you were a Presbyterian attending an Anglican service, would it be an issue for you to partake knowing that pretty much everyone else in the church believed Christ was actually present in the bread and wine and you did not?

 

[MichaelP3]

Right, I understand the stance. What I am saying is suppose an Anglican that went to a Presbyterian service. Would the fact that the bread and wine/juice was viewed as a symbol but you believed in the real presence, wouldn’t that be a personal dilemma? Other side, if you were a Presbyterian attending an Anglican service, would it be an issue for you to partake knowing that pretty much everyone else in the church believed Christ was actually present in the bread and wine and you did not?

Orrrrrr? Thinking from a Catholic perspective " it is ACTAULLY the body and blood of Christ whether you believe it or not? How would that affect you"?

 

[ajcstr]

Orrrrrr? Thinking from a Catholic perspective " it is ACTAULLY the body and blood of Christ whether you believe it or not? How would that affect you"?

Let me backup and restate just in case. I think we would both agree that it either is or it isn’t regardless of what either of us believes. No third possibility. So in the Catholic environment the belief is that it is and only Catholic’s can receive.

But in a Protestant church, beliefs could be different so I am asking as an Anglican would you feel uncomfortable participating in the Lord’s Supper in a Presbyterian Church or as a Presbyterian would you feel uncomfortable in an Anglican Church or does this issue just never come up?

 

[GKC]

What? Receive in another church?

In a church that does not possess a valid Eucharist. Requiring valid orders (hence valid minister of the sacrament), and form, matter, intent. And sure, I’m aware of *Apostolicae curae. *.

 

[Reuben_J]

There was an earlier thread related to Non-Catholics not being permitted to participate in Catholic Communion. Funny enough I was thinking about it during communion on Sunday and a slightly different question came to my mind.

Since Anglicans and Lutherans generally believe that Christ is physically present in the bread and wine and Baptists and Presbyterians generally believe in a symbolic presence, what is the experience when an Anglican/Lutheran participates in the Lord’s Supper at a Baptist/Presbyterian church and vice versa? Is it ever an issue for the person receiving if the Church they are in views it differently?

Interesting question. While I can’t speak for them and the fact that the question is not answered, except for by GKC, it probably is not really a big deal for them, or the ruling by the churches concerned as to inter-communion varies greatly.

I would think it is the latter. The Baptists group would probably do not think Communion is a major worship and therefore the rule regarding receiving communion from other churches is not really clear cut. The other group, like some Anglican varieties that are stricter with Communion, would probably do not receive from low Protestant churches.

But you pointedly asked about their experience, which like I said, makes this rather interesting. If they do, is it a common thing that they do and how important that to them would be?

From a Catholic point of view, we are very clear about receiving Communion, it being the most important worship in our life. So perhaps, that’s the reason why you can’t get a straight answer.

 

[GKC]

Interesting question. While I can’t speak for them and the fact that the question is not answered, except for by GKC, it probably is not really a big deal for them, or the ruling by the churches concerned as to inter-communion varies greatly.

I would think it is the latter. The Baptists group would probably do not think Communion is a major worship and therefore the rule regarding receiving communion from other churches is not really clear cut. The other group, like some Anglican varieties that are stricter with Communion, would probably do not receive from low Protestant churches.

But you pointedly asked about their experience, which like I said, makes this rather interesting. If they do, is it a common thing that they do and how important that to them would be?

From a Catholic point of view, we are very clear about receiving Communion, it being the most important worship in our life. So perhaps, that’s the reason why you can’t get a straight answer.

I have a good deal of experience in receiving the ordinance of the Lord’s Supper, in the Southern Baptist tradition. That was, of course, in the days when I was a Southern Baptist, back around 50+ years ago. Since then, why would I?

 

[LutheranScholar]

There was an earlier thread related to Non-Catholics not being permitted to participate in Catholic Communion. Funny enough I was thinking about it during communion on Sunday and a slightly different question came to my mind.

Since Anglicans and Lutherans generally believe that Christ is physically present in the bread and wine and Baptists and Presbyterians generally believe in a symbolic presence, what is the experience when an Anglican/Lutheran participates in the Lord’s Supper at a Baptist/Presbyterian church and vice versa? Is it ever an issue for the person receiving if the Church they are in views it differently?

A Lutheran of the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod would not be able to partake in the Communion of other denominations, nor would those other Christians who do not accept the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Body and Blood of Holy Communion generally be permitted to partake of the Sacrament of the Altar at an LCMS Church. Here is a more in- depth discussion of how seriously Confesional Lutherans take the Sacrament: iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/mosynod/web/clcommunion.html.

 

[ajcstr]

A Lutheran of the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod would not be able to partake in the Communion of other denominations, nor would those other Christians who do not accept the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Body and Blood of Holy Communion generally be permitted to partake of the Sacrament of the Altar at an LCMS Church. Here is a more in- depth discussion of how seriously Confesional Lutherans take the Sacrament: iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/mosynod/web/clcommunion.html.

Interesting - how is that communicated to the people at the service? This is the language the RCC uses:
*
Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion.*

 

[LutheranScholar]

Interesting - how is that communicated to the people at the service? This is the language the RCC uses:
*
Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion.*

What we believe about Holy Communion is written out on the inside cover of our weekly bulletins.

 

[LutheranScholar]

What we believe about Holy Communion is written out on the inside cover of our weekly bulletins.

I happen to have a copy of our worship bulletin in front of me, so I’ll type out what they’ve got:" To Our Guests: We welcome you and thank you for worshipping with us today. Please complete a blue welcome card found in the pew rack and place it in the offering plate or give it to an usher. please be sure to include the date and your address.

1 Corinthians 11:27-29 reads, *" whoever eats the **bread or drinks the cup **of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against **the body and blood *of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself." With Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions, we believe the Sacrament of the Altar is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ **in, with and under the bread and wine **and does impart to us forgiveness of sins, life and salvation. Before coming to the Lord’s Table, examine your faith in these words, and examine your heart for anything unforgiven. Please speak with the Pastor if you have any questions regarding this sacrament. Thank you."

Compliments of Hope Lutheran Church. The bulletin was for Palm Sunday.

 

[ltwin]

There was an earlier thread related to Non-Catholics not being permitted to participate in Catholic Communion. Funny enough I was thinking about it during communion on Sunday and a slightly different question came to my mind.

Since Anglicans and Lutherans generally believe that Christ is physically present in the bread and wine and Baptists and Presbyterians generally believe in a symbolic presence, what is the experience when an Anglican/Lutheran participates in the Lord’s Supper at a Baptist/Presbyterian church and vice versa? Is it ever an issue for the person receiving if the Church they are in views it differently?

Having been to an Episcopal Church, I know they make it a point (at least in the Diocese of South Carolina parish I visited) to emphasize how any baptized Christian can receive Holy Communion. I didn’t though because at the time I was there to perform an ethnography for a college course on religion. But since I was invited I would have had no problem participating under other circumstances. My church has open communion for all who profess faith in Christ.

 

[Duane1966]

Having been to an Episcopal Church, I know they make it a point (at least in the Diocese of South Carolina parish I visited) to emphasize how any baptized Christian can receive Holy Communion. I didn’t though because at the time I was there to perform an ethnography for a college course on religion. But since I was invited I would have had no problem participating under other circumstances. My church has open communion for all who profess faith in Christ.

Hi Itwin,

Do you think expressing faith in Christ should be enough? The reason I ask, is because a while back I asked you if the church at Antioch had rejected what the Council of Jerusalem had decided, did you think St. Paul would still have given them communion? You answered no. To me, that answer seems to show, that you acknowledge that faith in Christ is not enough to justify open communion for St. Paul.

I confess that I do not understand the desire of Christians to receive in other churches, when they reject some aspect of what that other church teaches. After all, communion is the words community and union joined together. Receiving communion in a church where i reject something that said church teaches, seems to make a mockery of the sacrament to me.

 

[ltwin]

Hi Itwin,

Do you think expressing faith in Christ should be enough? The reason I ask, is because a while back I asked you if the church at Antioch had rejected what the Council of Jerusalem had decided, did you think St. Paul would still have given them communion? You answered no. To me, that answer seems to show, that you acknowledge that faith in Christ is not enough to justify open communion for St. Paul.

I confess that I do not understand the desire of Christians to receive in other churches, when they reject some aspect of what that other church teaches. After all, communion is the words community and union joined together. Receiving communion in a church where i reject something that said church teaches, seems to make a mockery of the sacrament to me.

It depends on what they are rejecting. If a Mormon walked in my church, whether they professed Christ or not, we would all know that we believed a different gospel. Obviously, non-Christians are not included in the invite. But if you are an evangelical Protestant or a confessional mainline Protestant or even a believing Catholic (though the case starts to get murkier there), there is very little that materially separates us doctrinally.

The communion that we share is Christ. In him, we are all in communion anyway, whether we want to be or not.

 

[Duane1966]

It depends on what they are rejecting. If a Mormon walked in my church, whether they professed Christ or not, we would all know that we believed a different gospel. Obviously, non-Christians are not included in the invite. But if you are an evangelical Protestant or a confessional mainline Protestant or even a believing Catholic (though the case starts to get murkier there), there is very little that materially separates us doctrinally.

The communion that we share is Christ. In him, we are all in communion anyway, whether we want to be or not.

But communion is also a sign we are one with the community. Surely it is a lie for anyone to receive communion when they reject an aspect, or aspects of what that community teaches.

 

[ltwin]

But communion is also a sign we are one with the community. Surely it is a lie for anyone to receive communion when they reject an aspect, or aspects of what that community teaches.

If you believe that admission to the Lord’s Supper should be based on perfect agreement with doctrinal formulas then I suppose it would be. Not all Christians think this is the case.

Concerning the Lord’s Supper, Paul was far more concerned with how members of the body treated one another than their understanding of doctrine. That (the mistreatment and humiliation of the poor by the rich in the congregation) was the context in which “discerning the body of Christ” was mean’t. What they failed to discern was that brothers and sisters in Christ are members of His body, so that when we mistreat and wrong one another without making amends in effect we are advertising our disbelief that we are one in Christ.