Los Angeles Archdiocese selling property to pay Sex Abuse claims

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orgel_maestro

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news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6660429.stm

Im part of the LA archdiocese so this kinda affects me. According to the article, the archdiocese has already paid 40 million out of 60, but there are still more cases to be heard and could cost up to a billion. I know what the archdiocese and the abusive priests did were wrong, but I cant help but feel at the same time frustrated. I do sympathize with the victims, but am I the only one who feels frustrated that all our donation money we’ve donated long before and all the church property are being used to pay these law suits? I think the victims should be entitlted to some monetary compensation, but am I the only one who thinks its a little too much? According to the article, it was like over a million dollar per case, dang thats a lot of money! If the shoe were on the other foot, n you were a victim, would you feel guilty taking that much money? I’m just curious. I would be angry, but I would never take hundreds of thousands or a million of dollars, because I know that money came from parishioners and its not their fault the clergy screwed up. Again, I just want to reiterate that I do sympathize with the victims, I just feel a little frustrated as a layperson who is standing and watching all this from the sidelines.
 
On the one hand, dioceses usually have lots of property that you don’t know about. This is either donated pieces which have nothing to do with ministry, things that they have leased to others on a long term basis for building upon, one time ministerial property that has been abandoned, property bought once upon a time as speculative. Some of this is expendable.

OTOH, it is clear that the present settlement crises has beenn bringing some dioceses to a decision point where they have had to make decisions about cutting back on services and liquidating even valuable properties which ARE used for ministerial purposes, like chanery offices and seminaries, in order to find quick cash in order to balance budgets. It’s a real shame, and I wish the general Catholic population had more of a say in the matter.
 
orgel_maestro said:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6660429.stm

Im part of the LA archdiocese so this kinda affects me. According to the article, the archdiocese has already paid 40 million out of 60, but there are still more cases to be heard and could cost up to a billion. I know what the archdiocese and the abusive priests did were wrong, but I cant help but feel at the same time frustrated. I do sympathize with the victims, but am I the only one who feels frustrated that all our donation money we’ve donated long before and all the church property are being used to pay these law suits? I think the victims should be entitlted to some monetary compensation, but am I the only one who thinks its a little too much? According to the article, it was like over a million dollar per case, dang thats a lot of money! If the shoe were on the other foot, n you were a victim, would you feel guilty taking that much money? I’m just curious. I would be angry, but I would never take hundreds of thousands or a million of dollars, because I know that money came from parishioners and its not their fault the clergy screwed up. Again, I just want to reiterate that I do sympathize with the victims, I just feel a little frustrated as a layperson who is standing and watching all this from the sidelines.
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It seems excessive…but I’m not sure we can put a price on someone’s pain. The priests were wrong…but, the ones who are truly making out in this are the priests’ lawyers and the victims’ lawyers. From an insurance standpoint…there just isn’t enough of a threshold that a carrier can pay out. Actually, insurance carriers are shying away from writing Catholic Dioceses, because of these scandals.😦 It’s all rather sad. But, that being said…money makes people pay attention. Large sums typically have a way of sending large messages…I think that there needs to be zero tolerance for this…going forward. There wasn’t zero tolerance in the past, see. That’s really the problem. It’s not that anyone expects the RCC to be perfect…who is perfect? There are teachers, Protestant ministers, Boyscout leaders, etc…who have molested kids, too. Surely, the RCC can’t be expected to have eyes everywhere. But, the Bishops in some of these cases…DID NOTHING, when these tragedies were brought to their attention. (from a legal standpoint)

I’m terribly sad to hear about any Diocese closing, but at the same time…the RCC needs to take a zero tolerance stance on this. I think at this point, the RCC is, but this is why (in my opinion) these lawsuits are so huge.

All of this being said, though…I do think that the secular world likes to see the RCC suffer. That is what deeply saddens me. I mean…all of these young, pretty teachers in the news sleeping with their male students…are the parents of these young men, suing the school boards??? I have not heard of any schools closing. So, in a way…although there needs be payment to the victims–it seems grossly unfair compared to ‘punishments’ other child molestors have received, or the organizations they belong to, who are in authoritative roles.
 
whatevergirl said:
It seems excessive…but I’m not sure we can put a price on someone’s pain. The priests were wrong…but, the ones who are truly making out in this are the priests’ lawyers and the victims’ lawyers.
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I agree that we can’t put a price on someone’s pain, but the question is, can they???

On the poster’s second point, I agree. The saddest thing about the healing process initiated by these trials is that the size of the payouts (and I agree they are necessary in some degree) is being driven by a combination of bitterness, trial lawyers, and our national convention of “jackpot justice.”

I think that these payouts need to be capped, as are things like medical malpractice lawsuits, at some reasonable amount (say, $250,000 for the most serious claims + legal fees) in order to safeguard the donations made in goodwill by generations of Catholics that were intended to be the spiritual patrimony of their local church.
 
under_the_dome said:
I agree that we can’t put a price on someone’s pain, but the question is, can they???

On the poster’s second point, I agree. The saddest thing about the healing process initiated by these trials is that the size of the payouts (and I agree they are necessary in some degree) is being driven by a combination of bitterness, trial lawyers, and our national convention of “jackpot justice.”

I think that these payouts need to be capped, as are things like medical malpractice lawsuits, at some reasonable amount (say, $250,000 for the most serious claims + legal fees) in order to safeguard the donations made in goodwill by generations of Catholics that were intended to be the spiritual patrimony of their local church.
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The thing is, I don’t know that these are actual rulings against the Churches, but rather settlements which the diocesan lawyers decide to make. They could fight them and maybe win or get the amounts reduced. But the bishops are deciding to pay out, instead.
 
chicago said:
The thing is, I don’t know that these are actual rulings against the Churches, but rather settlements which the diocesan lawyers decide to make. They could fight them and maybe win or get the amounts reduced. But the bishops are deciding to pay out, instead.
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Right, but I am talking about the ones that actually go to trial, which often result in the most exorbitant payouts — the settlements made out of court are, of course, the result of mutual agreement on the propriety of the amount.
 
We can’t even be sure what priests are guilty. All we usually hear about are allegations,allegations,allegations – by people who are not identified,and without being told about the evidence or the facts of the cases. We are just led to assume that the priests must be guilty. An allegation against a priest is tantamount to a guilty verdict by the media,the general public,and even the parishioners
who know the priest. Many Catholics don’t even bother to demand
the evidence and the facts of the matter before making up their mind. It’s as if the media is playing upon the awareness of sin,the guilt conscience of Catholics,“rubbing it in”,and Catholics are shamefacedly going along with it.
 
under_the_dome said:
I agree that we can’t put a price on someone’s pain, but the question is, can they???

On the poster’s second point, I agree. The saddest thing about the healing process initiated by these trials is that the size of the payouts (and I agree they are necessary in some degree) is being driven by a combination of bitterness, trial lawyers, and our national convention of “jackpot justice.”

I think that these payouts need to be capped, as are things like medical malpractice lawsuits, at some reasonable amount (say, $250,000 for the most serious claims + legal fees) in order to safeguard the donations made in goodwill by generations of Catholics that were intended to be the spiritual patrimony of their local church.
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That is an excellent question…‘can they?’ I don’t know how money can bandage up such horrific (forever) wounds…as I mentioned though…it’s a way to a)take a huge stab at the RCC and b) make a hughe statement that this will not be tolerated. I am not against these payments…the RCC should have been paying attention…minding the store as they say. But, certain Bishops were not…so here we go. It shouldn’t be a feeding frenzy for every lawyer on the planet though…I get the sense that they are the reasons these lawsuits are so high.
 
It is sad that they must do this but what must be done must be done.
 
Has anyone here even heard about the forensic evidence,the affidavits,the transcripts in these cases or are we to just believe that the priests are all guilty? It seems to me that lawyers and the media are taking the unwillingness of the Church to look uncharitable by defending itself as an admission of guilt. All we are hearing about are allegations,allegations,allegations – and the embarrassed reactions of Church officials.
 
anthony022071 said:
Has anyone here even heard about the forensic evidence,the affidavits,the transcripts in these cases or are we to just believe that the priests are all guilty?
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At least for the cases I’ve read about the transgressions usually are things that happened “years ago” and the victims have delayed coming forward. Forensic evidence is not going to exist. But many of the priests have ultimately admitted to the deeds.

Do not believe this is just a Catholic issue. The press makes it seem that way, but it is not. I was speaking to a Baptist Associate Pastor yesterday at great length from a congregation in Gary, IN. He was telling me that the Pastor has been making homosexual advances toward him! Now that would be 2 adults, so there is no crime go go with that sin.

But then he began to tell me about the other Associate Pastor in the congregation that has been (at least) approaching 14 and 15 year old girls. 3 or 4 have now come forward, and there is some credible evidence to support them. So that could be child molestation. My friend the Associate Pastor is confused and unsure what to do (when have you ever heard of a Baptist coming to a Catholic for advice :eek: ) and he wants to continue the conversation with me next week, we set a time to meet again.

The point being we are all human, even those with a ‘higher calling’ are open to temptations. They are also in a position of both influence and power and if tempted can use that for the wrong purposes.
 
I don’t know about this one folks. I was sexually abused as a little girl by my stepfather and it destroyed most of my life. I’m 52 now and a catholic convert still trying to deal with the effects of that awful abuse. It opened up to me the dark world of sexuality before I was 3 and by the time I entered my teenage years I was hooked on masturbation and promiscuity. Why keep a “virginity” that was ripped from you before you could exercise your free will to obey God?
My stepfather had absolutely nothing and died a lonely man. If he had been wealthy, yeah, I would have sued him and done my best to ruin him financially.
I’m not sure these lawsuits are excessive and there is not enough money in the world that will quell my pain.
Johannah
 
johannahw said:
I don’t know about this one folks. I was sexually abused as a little girl by my stepfather and it destroyed most of my life. I’m 52 now and a catholic convert still trying to deal with the effects of that awful abuse. It opened up to me the dark world of sexuality before I was 3 and by the time I entered my teenage years I was hooked on masturbation and promiscuity. Why keep a “virginity” that was ripped from you before you could exercise your free will to obey God?
My stepfather had absolutely nothing and died a lonely man. If he had been wealthy, yeah, I would have sued him and done my best to ruin him financially.
I’m not sure these lawsuits are excessive and there is not enough money in the world that will quell my pain.
Johannah
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I’m terribly sorry to hear this, johannah:( …I applaud your bravery in sharing your story here…and know that you’re thought of often…
 
here in Chgo the Archdiocese has closed Archbishop Quigley HS so that the Cardinal now has free access to the once restricted bank account in which anywhere from $14 million to $17 million is deposited. When he announced the closure of the school the once restricted funds (for the operation of the school) became generally available at the discretion of the Cardinal (Cardinal George). what he doesnt realize or doesnt care about is the fact that the Catholic Church is being dismantled as a natural consequence of decades (or even longer) of corruption by those clergy who commit serious atrocities (mortal sins) and the cover up of that corruption by the church hierarchy (Cardinal George included). there needs to be a totally open environment from the church to lay authorities to monitor on an ongoing basis, the conduct of ALL clergy, whether they wear red capes or not!! This situation greatly angers me. The church hierarchy knew, and continues to know, exactly what goes on behind their closed doors, and they continue to act as though they are above the law. Well one thing is for certain, God sees and knows EVERYTHING, and God have mercy on ALL of the hedonistic law breakers within the church.
Oh, just dont expect me to bail out the law breakers within the chruch. Let them suffer the natural consequences. The church will suffer greatly prophecy is coming true.:mad:
 
There is so much pain in this topic for everyone. I just wanted to mention a couple legal things. One - In some states and in most countries, parishes are individual corporations. If we had more of that structure, then the law suits would be focused on smaller group targets. One would sue the priest only - and maybe ther parish of the incident.

Regardless of the system, the one above or where all Church property is incorporated under the diocese (thus the larger target), the liabilities were bound to continue to expand because this issue came up at near ten year cycles since the 1970’s. The same promises were made in the 1980’s and 90’s and so in the early 2000’s we wer ehit hard. Promises to reform were ignored for 20 years (or longer).

I pray that we learn from this. We have to admit error when it happens and honestly deal with it. We need to trus the Spirit more than our own devices (such as cover ups).

Canada was hard hit some time back. Watch Canadian news if you get the chance on or around June 23. There is a tremendous movement to force leading churches (Episcopal, Catholic and United Churches of Canada) to locate the graves of 50,000 Indigenous Children who died in Government and Church run Indian Residential Schools. About 530 children died each year up untill the lagte 70’s early 80’s.

Cover ups are terrible punishment over what the victims already suffered. No amount of money takes care of this.
 
orgel_maestro said:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6660429.stm

Im part of the LA archdiocese so this kinda affects me. According to the article, the archdiocese has already paid 40 million out of 60, but there are still more cases to be heard and could cost up to a billion. I know what the archdiocese and the abusive priests did were wrong, but I cant help but feel at the same time frustrated. I do sympathize with the victims, but am I the only one who feels frustrated that all our donation money we’ve donated long before and all the church property are being used to pay these law suits? I think the victims should be entitlted to some monetary compensation, but am I the only one who thinks its a little too much? According to the article, it was like over a million dollar per case, dang thats a lot of money! If the shoe were on the other foot, n you were a victim, would you feel guilty taking that much money? I’m just curious. I would be angry, but I would never take hundreds of thousands or a million of dollars, because I know that money came from parishioners and its not their fault the clergy screwed up. Again, I just want to reiterate that I do sympathize with the victims, I just feel a little frustrated as a layperson who is standing and watching all this from the sidelines.
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ludwig9:
I think that the monetary damages paid out to the those abused is more than justified. Not only did it get the attention of Mahoney who thought so little of his parishioners that instead of taking the correct and moral step of taking these pedophile priests out of circulation he just kept shuffling them about to hurt even more people. As a parishioner I would be even more outraged that its because of the inactions of Mahoney and other Bishops that this money is going to victims. Its appereant that Mahoney who speaks of compassion for others had very little himself when it came to the would-be victims.
 
Why sell off assests?

The Bishops should instead take up a special collection every week to pay off the claims. That would also be a vote of confidence in their leadership.
 
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