Losing a friend by telling him he shouldnt be giving his 12 year old son driving lessons

[maryjk]

I’m pretty sure a lot of people here had parents help them before they legally could drive. In fact most people that posted on the first couple pages said so. The OP has not even posted where this was done. As I pointed out in websites people are encouraged to find a Parking lot or a safe place to practice this.

If all he is doing is driving in empty parking lots, that is fine.

But if this kid is out on the road, he is breaking the law.

Around here, teens get their permits, THEN they practice driving with their parents or another adult. They don’t practice driving first.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Or if he waits till he is 18 he can just pass a test. with no instruction.

THe people that are taking it too far are the ones who are acting like life and limb is in danger here. And that the OP did a service to the offenders and the general public.

Meanwhile illegal immigrants are getting DLs. Yeah, that is safer…

But I doubt the OP is an activist on that front with some Hispanic friends…

You just described a lot of things that are bad ideas. None of that has anything to do with the safety or wisdom of letting a 12yo drive on the street. The question is not, “should 18yo’s be able to get drivers tests with no instruction” or “should illegal immigrants get their licenses,” the question is “is a 12yo driving on the street risky enough for the OP to tell the parent not to do it?”

Just to dispel your notions about those of us whose opinions you have just assumed on a variety of topics: I started driving my family car when I was twelve…IN A CHURCH PARKING LOT…with no other cars or people nearby. I did not drive an inch on the actual road until I had my learner’s permit at age 16 - which btw, required me to pass a written test, ensuring that I knew at least the basics of the rules of the road. We followed the law, which is all I am suggesting is the reasonable course of action for this particular situation. I haven’t seen anyone suggest that a 12yo shouldn’t possibly be allowed to get behind the wheel of the car (although that would be a perfectly valid argument if one wanted to make it). The problem people have is that this tween is driving on PUBLIC ROADS. No need to exaggerate people’s arguments just because you disagree.

But speaking of other good vs. bad ideas, legally, I could have taken my driving test within a couple of weeks (at the time - now, the rules require a much longer period of waiting/instruction). But I actually practiced driving with my parents for about 18 months, and took driver’s ed until I was a good and confident driver. At the time, this was not a requirement, but now the rules of NY state have requirements that are not that different from what I chose to do out of common sense. Of course, THIS has nothing to do with whether or not a 12yo should drive on public roads while lacking:
–evidence of knowledge of V&T laws (shown by passing a written test)
–the maturity and developmental ability of being nearly an adult
–legal protection in case of a problem

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

But what is obvious is the OP overstepping the bounds of the relationship to point this out. And such a little thing too. We can talk about if it is a good idea for a 12 year old to be on a street. And in many cases we all would agree. But in this case, the OP obviously overstepped her bounds. And her attitude of disdain for said “friend” is told by her “father of the year” comment. Dollars to doughnuts, this is not what broke the friendship. but only how it manifested itself.

 

[jmcrae]

If all he is doing is driving in empty parking lots, that is fine.

But if this kid is out on the road, he is breaking the law.

Around here, teens get their permits, THEN they practice driving with their parents or another adult. They don’t practice driving first.

Same around here. They can get their learner’s permits on their 14th birthday, after passing the written exam. There is then a graduated system of road practice and driver’s education which they have to complete in order to get their full Class 5 driver’s permit.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

LOL you guys are going to LOVE this.

In VA. The OPs state. For hunting. That is right, like 30/06 300 yard shot hunting.

Resident hunters under the age of 12 are not required to have a hunting license or hunter education. Nonresident hunters under the age of 12 need a hunting license but do not need hunter education to purchase one. All hunters under the age of 12 may not hunt unless accompanied and directly supervised by a licensed adult.

dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/licenses.asp

Virginia is actually one of the few states that allow for
parenttaughtdrivereducation.com/states/virginia.php

Imagine that. Fathers teaching kids…

Again, given the record of the government with teens and driving. And national fatalities and injuries involving teen drivers, the father may be the more responsible party in this situation.

Like the Church says, Parents are the primary educators!

 

[bitterhope]

LOL you guys are going to LOVE this.

In VA. The OPs state. For hunting. That is right, like 30/06 300 yard shot hunting.

dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/licenses.asp

Virginia is actually one of the few states that allow for
parenttaughtdrivereducation.com/states/virginia.php

Imagine that. Fathers teaching kids…

Again, given the record of the government with teens and driving. And national fatalities and injuries involving teen drivers, the father may be the more responsible party in this situation.

Like the Church says, Parents are the primary educators!

Yep, some places still allow parents to parent without interference. No where was it mentioned that this kid is driving on city streets, and no one is advocating for that. But a 12 yr old kid that is driving with his dad is a much smaller danger than a 18 yr old unsupervised driver, especially one that is new to driving or driving with friends in the car. And you add in the cell phones, loud music and other distractions that go along with most teens that are unsupervised and it’s no wonder that males under 25 such high insurance rates.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

OP, is located in Arlington VA. The minimum age to get a learner’s permit in VA (the permit issued by the state that allows the person to be able to start learning how to drive) is 15 years 6 months. After the child receives his permit, then Dad is legally free to teach the son.

In post 4 the OP did say that the child was driving in the city. There is a huge liability God forbid the child hits another person, moving vehicle, a parked car.

I would think that even if the son hit a parked car, Dad’s insurance company would drop him. I don’t get why risk losing insurance coverage

I think driving is a privilege, not a right, so I don’t think it’s cumbersome to follow the law and wait.

The link cited earlier about Virginia allowing parents to teach children how to drive explains this:

How Do Virginia Parent Taught Driver Education Courses Work?
The above reports show that an added benefit of parent taught drivers education is that, in addition to teaching their children to drive, parents themselves complete an 80-hour brush-up course! Parents who have signed affidavits of completion for their students have stated often that they have learned much from teaching their children how to drive and that their driving skills been enhanced as well.

The program calls for the parents to take refresher courses to make sure their driving skills are up to date in order to teach the child.

And it isn’t one of the only states that allow parents to teach their children to drive. It’s one of the only states that has this type of program (parents learn to teach)

Additionally, Minnesota, Nebraska, and Virginia have passed similar legislation recognizing the ability of parents to provide their students’ drivers education. The Departments of Motor Vehicles or Departments of Education in several other states have approved various parent taught driver education programs. The following states have specifically approved NDTI’s parent-taught drivers education course: Colorado, Minnesota, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, and Virginia.

Many more states do not require any specific requirements for driver education, leaving parents free to choose between commercial driver education schools, public schools, or parent-taught driver education courses. As of October 2006, these states are Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, West Virginia, and Wyoming. Information sources at the end of this article can be checked to find out the laws in your state.

So, this child in VA isn’t legally able to learn how to drive yet. And it doesn’t seem like
Dad took an 80 hour brush up course, or else he would know that the son was too young to legally learn how to drive.

 

[MaryT777]

Actually I think thed ad of the kid is oversensitive if he’s going to break off a friendship over a comment from a concerned parent who doesn’t want young kids driving in the city because it’s unsafe.

Mary.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Actually I think thed ad of the kid is oversensitive if he’s going to break off a friendship over a comment from a concerned parent who doesn’t want young kids driving in the city because it’s unsafe.

Mary.

Which is why there is more to this story in the first place. methinks.

I have had people tell me that my kids should not learn to ski because of the dangers involved. And granted, to watch a 3 year old fly down 2000 vertical feet is quite the spectacle, if some well meaning yet Gladys Cravitz type person told me I was a bad dad because of it, well there would not be much of a friendship there. The OP did not mention when her children learned some milestone life skills. I have driven a stick in Seattle before when I lived there. You don’t learn how to shift on those hills without dad or someone showing you how to do it.

I’m with you guys that 12 might be a little young to do that in a city. But as far as some sort of danger or menace to society. It is a dad with a kid.

To further illustrate the point. In my high school there was a drag team. (that does not mean what kids these days think it means.) There were kids, racing before they had DLs. Now, do you think daddy paid thousands of dollars for track time to teach little miss Becky how to race? Or do you think a couple of times, she (under close watch) got to drive around the block a few times?

Remember. Hand a child a loaded gun, put tons of people in the woods, and let them fire away is legal. But somehow this dad is a villain,and the OP, doing her civic duty to keep the sidewalks safe?"

Somehow I think we should realize that we may only have one side of this “argument”

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’ll bet this dad watching and trying to properly teach his son to drive is safer than me, trying to hand the kids their happy meals while changing stations and asking siri where the heck I am and if I need to lock my doors.

Or perhaps the OP is a perfect parent and driver.

Me: Siri, get me out of here, I want to go home! Kids just deal with the toy you got in your meal, it does not matter who gets the pink dragon!

Siri: I am sorry I cannot find the Pink Dragon.

Me No Siri home! Oh man what is that smell?! Is that a happy meal or a dirty diaper?
Did that song on the radio just swear? I got to find the christian station!

Siri: I found a bar called the dirty diaper not to far from here, would you like directions?

Me: No! Kids duck there is gunfire again" (this is usually only in chicagoland.)

My 8 year old: Daddy are you speeding?

Me: Yes, there is gunfire and that smell is killing me!

Her: Daddy speeding is wrong, you should have turned back there.

Me: Great, you are so smart you drive!

And that is how it happens that an 8 year old drives folks!

Oh great, now the OP is going to jump all over my fatherhood for taking the kids to Mickydees!

 

[MaryT777]

I’ll bet this dad watching and trying to properly teach his son to drive is safer than me, trying to hand the kids their happy meals while changing stations and asking siri where the heck I am and if I need to lock my doors.

Or perhaps the OP is a perfect parent and driver.

Me: Siri, get me out of here, I want to go home! Kids just deal with the toy you got in your meal, it does not matter who gets the pink dragon!

Siri: I am sorry I cannot find the Pink Dragon.

Me No Siri home! Oh man what is that smell?! Is that a happy meal or a dirty diaper?
Did that song on the radio just swear? I got to find the christian station!

Siri: I found a bar called the dirty diaper not to far from here, would you like directions?

Me: No! Kids duck there is gunfire again" (this is usually only in chicagoland.)

My 8 year old: Daddy are you speeding?

Me: Yes, there is gunfire and that smell is killing me!

Her: Daddy speeding is wrong, you should have turned back there.

Me: Great, you are so smart you drive!

And that is how it happens that an 8 year old drives folks!

Oh great, now the OP is going to jump all over my fatherhood for taking the kids to Mickydees!

LOL…I understand your point; I just disagree LOL!~

 

[maryjk]

LOL you guys are going to LOVE this.

In VA. The OPs state. For hunting. That is right, like 30/06 300 yard shot hunting.

dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/licenses.asp

Virginia is actually one of the few states that allow for
parenttaughtdrivereducation.com/states/virginia.php

Imagine that. Fathers teaching kids…

Again, given the record of the government with teens and driving. And national fatalities and injuries involving teen drivers, the father may be the more responsible party in this situation.

Like the Church says, Parents are the primary educators!

I don’t know that anyone has a problem with the parents being the primary teacher. I know I don’t. I home educated my son. And yes, even for driving.

But I followed the laws of my state. I allowed our son to reach the required age. He tested and received his permit, then we started him behind the wheel.

Now, I am sure there is more to the story. It seems quite obvious that the OP already had problems with the man (and maybe his son.) Regardless, what the man is doing now, allowing his 12 year old son to drive on city streets, is wrong.

 

[ack]

This scares the heck out of me – I drive through Arlingon, VA on a regular basis. It’s full of insane, aggressive drivers, and it’s probably one of the most congested areas in the country. Other posters are talking about rural roads and big, empty parking lots…there are no rural roads anywhere near Arlington, VA, and any parking lot in the area will be jammed with cars unless they’re driving in the middle of the night.

I would want anyone driving there to have the benefit of having as much maturity and life experience as possible before attempting it. Now I’m really going to be keeping an eye on the other motorists when I pass through Arlington tomorrow.

OP, is located in Arlington VA. The minimum age to get a learner’s permit in VA (the permit issued by the state that allows the person to be able to start learning how to drive) is 15 years 6 months. After the child receives his permit, then Dad is legally free to teach the son.

In post 4 the OP did say that the child was driving in the city. There is a huge liability God forbid the child hits another person, moving vehicle, a parked car.

I would think that even if the son hit a parked car, Dad’s insurance company would drop him. I don’t get why risk losing insurance coverage

I think driving is a privilege, not a right, so I don’t think it’s cumbersome to follow the law and wait.

The link cited earlier about Virginia allowing parents to teach children how to drive explains this:

The program calls for the parents to take refresher courses to make sure their driving skills are up to date in order to teach the child.

And it isn’t one of the only states that allow parents to teach their children to drive. It’s one of the only states that has this type of program (parents learn to teach)

So, this child in VA isn’t legally able to learn how to drive yet. And it doesn’t seem like
Dad took an 80 hour brush up course, or else he would know that the son was too young to legally learn how to drive.

 

[Allegra]

One of my childhood friends had her livingroom driven into by a middle schooler who was taking his dad’s truck out for a joyride. Apparently the kid thought it was okay because dad had let him drive it before to the store. The scary part was that the truck stopped about four feet from her little sister. The hilarious part was that the kid literally ran away from the truck, climbed out the livingroom window with my friend’s sister and mom staring at him, ran home, and hid in his room, hoping he could feign ignorance and not get caught. Obviously, the dad knew that HIS kid was responsible enough to drive a car.

Honestly, if the OP’s friend gets upset enough about his criticizing a child being allowed to illegally operate a dangerous machine on a public road that he’s giving him the silent treatment, I would consider myself lucky that I didn’t have to talk to such a silly and immature individual anymore. No loss. Hopefully they don’t kill anyone.

 

[Allegra]

LOL you guys are going to LOVE this.

In VA. The OPs state. For hunting. That is right, like 30/06 300 yard shot hunting.

dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/licenses.asp

Virginia is actually one of the few states that allow for
parenttaughtdrivereducation.com/states/virginia.php

Imagine that. Fathers teaching kids…

Again, given the record of the government with teens and driving. And national fatalities and injuries involving teen drivers, the father may be the more responsible party in this situation.

Like the Church says, Parents are the primary educators!

I’ve never heard of a state where parents don’t teach their kids to drive. In Missouri, they can take a written test at 15 and then only their own legal parents or a licenced driving teacher can teach them.

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

Is it ok to tell a friend , there irresponsible & stupid ? In some circumstances. Yes,
Just need to get the timing right,

 

[Book_Worm]

Is it ok to tell a friend , there irresponsible & stupid ? In some circumstances. Yes,
Just need to get the timing right,

And in most circumstances, the right time would be never.

If you give someone information that they likely don’t already have, that’s being helpful. If you are just criticizing them for a choice they’re making, that’s probably as far from helpful as you can get.

And using the words “irresponsible” and “stupid” would fall in the “never-a-good-idea” category.

 

[Brendan]

I was driving a HUGE hay truck at 10–but that was in open fields at a few miles an hour.

I was doing that same at 12, but that on a Ford tractor. In Ireland.

 

[Allegra]

And using the words “irresponsible” and “stupid” would fall in the “never-a-good-idea” category.

I’m trying to imagine my dad or step-dad having this conversation with their buddies and I wonder if the words “irresponsible” and “stupid” are actually too tame. They sound “preachy”. Call the guy a #%%#( @(&$#(*#$ idiot and maybe you’ll get farther?

 

[jmcrae]

I’m trying to imagine my dad or step-dad having this conversation with their buddies and I wonder if the words “irresponsible” and “stupid” are actually too tame. They sound “preachy”. Call the guy a #%%#( @(&$#(*#$ idiot and maybe you’ll get farther?

I agree. Sometimes strong language is needed.