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Fatima_Vision
Guest
Amen and well said.
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Fragile
Guest
“Because of you, the name of the Lord is blasphemed among the gentiles.”
This was true in Israel and it is true in the Church, I’m more concerned about how my life may lead some to think about the Church!
This was true in Israel and it is true in the Church, I’m more concerned about how my life may lead some to think about the Church!
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IrishRush
Guest
This is an excellent perspective to take. I’ve always loved the story of Jesus’ forgiveness of Peter on the beach and this gives me yet another way of looking at it. Thank you for this insight! :thankyou:
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Disinherited
Guest
Also, another thing, the Spanish Inquisition, the most brutal and corrupt of all three inquisitions, was run by the government. The Pope gave ueen Isabella permission to establish an inquisition and even though it was presided by Priests and Dominicans as judges they were only appointed by the government to act. Take that Fry you lazy hypocrite
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Kay_Gazer
Guest
The Catholic Church is holy not because everyone is holy, that is humanly impossible. The Church is holy because not only is Jesus Christ the founder, and He is the fountain of all holiness, but also because she teaches holy doctrines and provides the means to attain holiness, thereby giving holy members to every age. (From my St. Joseph’s Baltimore Catechism No. 2) But the members have to choose to use the means to obtain holiness, so if there are bad Catholics, it’s because they choose not to use the means the Church provides to distribute God’s saving and sanctifying grace. Hope this helps. God bless!
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PJM
Guest
ASK GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT TO ASSIST YOU AND HE WILL.
One needs to UNDERSTAND that in discussions topics such as this it is ESSENTIAL to Seperate “Mother Church / a seperate enity,” and the Pope and Bishops who are mortal men: EXCEPT when Oficially teaching of Faith beliefs and Morals.
Don’t make the protestant Error of blaming “the CC” for the errors of human leaders.
Are you ABSOLUTELY sure YOU HAVE ALL THE FACTS RIGHT? Your making claims that I have never heard of. You WOULD be well advised to make an appointment with your pastor and discuss this in person with him.
There is a SUPER ABUNDANCE of misinformation available on the net. Much of it not at all founded on truth. Be VERY Careful of whatn YOU CHOOSE to believe.
God Bless and PRAY for assistance,
Pat **
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Disinherited
Guest
I’ve got more faith in the Catholic Church now than ever (thank you Mary!), especially since I see the good fruit which it has brought to the world. Í’m a staunch traditionalist and even among the majority who practice the Novus Ordo, I’ve seen more friendly faces in these devout Catholics then I ever will see among atheists and Jews whose pride and hypocrisy outweighs any criticism they accuse the Church of because supposedly, it is wrong for the Church to claim to dominate over all other religions and be the only true religion. I’ve seen theists like that hypocrite of Stephen Fry saying that the Catholic Church has no connection with Jesus at all, when in fact, we were the first (and only, spiritually) Christians and we are descended from th apostles (bangs head on wall).
I even just got out of a debate with some atheist who even said that we added our own heresies to Catholicism… I honestly sometime swant to bang my head against a wall in exasperation. People will stop at nothing to make the Church look bad. At least we always admitted that if there were atrocities commited by children of the Church, they were bad and we didn’t try to excuse them.
), especially since I see the good fruit which it has brought to the world. Í’m a staunch traditionalist and even among the majority who practice the Novus Ordo, I’ve seen more friendly faces in these devout Catholics then I ever will see among atheists and Jews whose pride and hypocrisy outweighs any criticism they accuse the Church of because supposedly, it is wrong for the Church to claim to dominate over all other religions and be the only true religion. I’ve seen theists like that hypocrite of Stephen Fry saying that the Catholic Church has no connection with Jesus at all, when in fact, we were the first (and only, spiritually) Christians and we are descended from th apostles (bangs head on wall).I even just got out of a debate with some atheist who even said that we added our own heresies to Catholicism… I honestly sometime swant to bang my head against a wall in exasperation. People will stop at nothing to make the Church look bad. At least we always admitted that if there were atrocities commited by children of the Church, they were bad and we didn’t try to excuse them.
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Disinherited
Guest
I’m amazed. I honest to God and Mary received one shock of my life. I mean let me get this straight, the vast majority of Jews are no more evil and decent as everyone else and in fact, alot of devout Jews are really good people (even though admittedly, there is a bigger chance of Protestants and Muslims being good people if they followed their own religion, I’m sorry to say. Martin Luther King, we salute you!) but, the Talmud… I just read a few passages which before I thought were fake, such as the allegations that Judaism allows pedophilia, etc… I thought they were fake and anti-semitic as there is no way that Jews would allow that but reading what is reputed by Rabbis to be one of the best translations of the Talmud, I changed my opinion entirely. While I don’t justify the Pope’s locking Jews in ghettos as IT isn’t possible for a thousand simple Jews to know the dark stuff of the Talmud, this at least shows reason why the Popes forbade the Talmud: come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_55.html
Is this anti-semitic? No it isn’t because this is a Jewish source, the highest of them all admitting that it allows atrocities. I was flabbergasted. You can’t believe how dumbfounded I was when I read that. Its impossible to say that Jesus was inspired by the Talmud when He, who is God Himself, thought the Jews and all people. Its one of the most blasphemous things I’ve ever heard especially since the Talmud was written after the time of Christ and is riddled with blasphemies against Him and the Blessed Virgin Mary. People should do some research for crying out loud. Do you think the Pope would censor the Talmud if there was nothing to censor in it, specifically blasphemies against the Catholic religion?
Is this anti-semitic? No it isn’t because this is a Jewish source, the highest of them all admitting that it allows atrocities. I was flabbergasted. You can’t believe how dumbfounded I was when I read that. Its impossible to say that Jesus was inspired by the Talmud when He, who is God Himself, thought the Jews and all people. Its one of the most blasphemous things I’ve ever heard especially since the Talmud was written after the time of Christ and is riddled with blasphemies against Him and the Blessed Virgin Mary. People should do some research for crying out loud. Do you think the Pope would censor the Talmud if there was nothing to censor in it, specifically blasphemies against the Catholic religion?
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Zhenia
Guest
I agree with you. And I’m a Jewish Christian!I know that the Church is made up of fallible human beings
With respect to all the Jews who suffered, I believe the Church didn’t put all those restrictions on the Jews because it was antisemitic. There were Popes at those times who forbade Christians and if one does research one will immediately find that the Church did all it could to protect the Jews. The only Popes I see as being rather bad in their anti-semitism were Pope Innocent III AND Pope Pius V, the latter being alot worse than the former with him expelling the Jews from the Papal States. Where did they have to go? Then there was the case of Edgardo Mortara but, even though it was really, really harsh on the Pope’s part, the ‘kidnapping’ wasn’t meant for political reasons but to preserve the faith of one who was baptized. I wasn’t antisemitic, the same thing would have happened if the child was Muslim or Pagan (Edgardo even became a Priest and missionary and was successful at that).
Mind you, without shading over what these two Popes did, the Jews aren’t any better. I’m not talking so much of the atrocities and racism which they show not only to the Arabs but to the whole world (and by Jews, I mean those who actually do these bad things); what about the atrocities of the Old Testament? Those murders and wars which they performed on all those countries? The fall of Jericho comes to mind…
Things certainly got better when the Blessed Virgin came around. There weren’t so many religious orders and so much good done by the Church than in the Marian age; it was the Marian age that gave us the greatest Popes and Saints. It isn’t because we moved on with the times, it was because we found out more about Her, we became more devoted to Her and we started to follow Her ways. We didn’t adapt, we Catholics followed Her. It all went downhill not only when we didn’t listen to Her message at Fatima, it all went downhill at the secular spirit of Vatican II. Vocations dropped, people became lukewarm, liturgical abuse, lack of Marian spirit, ecumenism, lack of the Marian spirit brought about by Ecumenism… it is only with Mary’s help that we can eradicate the poison of false ecumenism. We do not exterminate people of other religions because they disagree with us, neither do we slander them, but then again, neither do we support their beliefs or encourage them in the least to keep on with them. They don’t encourage us, neither shall we.
youtube.com/watch?v=hHDZ5rYiMz0&feature=related Couldn’t have said it better myself.
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PJM
Guest
Friend, I’m an INFORMED, and fully practicing Roman Catholic. What the heck are you talking about. Popes locking Jews in gettoes."
You claim to be Catholic; do you my FRIEND know what we believe and why we believe it?
No where in the ENTIRE BIBLE does God [Yahweh or Christ] even HINT at tollerating more than One God; More than ONLY One set of Faith beliefs, or More than the One Church and religion that He Christ founded, and protects.
You seem to be loosing hope BECAUSE you do not seem to Know what we believe and WHY we can and do believe it. ASK obut waht we beleive and WHY and we’ll TEACH you why the CC ALONE holds the Keys to heaven.
May God bless and guide you,
Pat
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Zhenia
Guest
I keep trying to explain to (Gentile) Christians that the Talmud is full of slanders agianst Christ and His Blessed Mother, but they have called me an “antisemite”, which is odd, considering I was raised an Orthodox Jew and am now a Christian. If anyone knows about the Talmud and other Jewish seforim (holy books), I’d think someone raised an Orthodox Jew would.
BTW your praise for Martin Luther King is a bit shortsighted. He was a liberal protestant clergyman who denied the Deity of Christ as well as the Resurrection of Christ (as many if not most liberal protestant clergy do). His real name was also Michael King, the “Martin Luther” was added on later in his life. He really was not someone to admire, modern political correctness notwithstanding. He was also a womanizer and a plagiarist.
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fanatic1
Guest
hope i am not repeating things already said
it seems you are not separating the Church from what its members do.
and also, i have never heard of the members doing what you say. Yes, Joan of Arc was burned @ the stake but if i recall, it was the English members of the Church who condemned her and that was becasue she was French (?). So politics were involved from what i can tell. Again, the Church did not do this, but some Church men. But i obviously dont know enough about that story
In any case, there are always going to be big sinners in the Church. Jesus said to let the weeds grow near the good seed until the end of time. He also said that few make it to that narrow pathway that leads to Heaven. Read the 7th Chapter of Matthew; it has some of the scariest psgs of all - He speaks of even those who do mighty deeds in His name (exorcisms) not making it to Heaven. He says that “FEW” find the way to Heaven.
Looking around, that is not hard 2 believe. Everyone does his own thing, even Christians so called.
a lot of people pick & choose what they will or will not do that Jesus said to do
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Disinherited
Guest
Zhenia, as you’ve read from my posts I am not an anti-semite and I honestly would like to meet you maybe even be friends. Now I know a person who doesn’t think I’m an anti-semite because I criticize Judaism (and Islam and Protestantism mind you!) and I came across these people alot even on these forums, even when I stated outright that I am not anti-semite. Sure Jews suffered alot during the holocaust but that doesn’t mean that their race is better than ours and that it should be treated any better. The same for black people, the same for Mexicans (who contrary to popular belief did NOT suffer under the Catholic Church and in fact, the Church declared that they shouldn’t be made slaves. Take that Columbus). There is only one race and that is the human race.
OK, about Martin Luther King, I didn’t know he was so liberal and yes, I always knew he was protestant. But still, you’ve got to admire the man for his peaceful protests and pacifism. He was MUCH More effective than the racist Malcolm X and that murderous communist of a Nelson Mandela.
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boncrayon
Guest
The devil is constantly active in human lives. Deacons, Priests, Bishops and the Pope all experience temptations. The Catholic Church is a world-wide institution. We are called to pray earnistly for our Religious, Deacons, Priests, Bishops and Pope that they remain steadfast in thier spiritual roles.
Jesus Chirst said, “You are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build My Church…and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.”
While there are many splits and interpretations of the Papal Hierarchy since Calvin and Martin Luther, the Catholic Church remains firm on its traditions, including seven Sacraments, the Eucharist (Actual Body and Blood of Jesus Christ) Priest celabacy, and intercessions to Mother Mary in the Holy Rosary, and intercessions thriough the Saints.
Protestantism does no accept all the traditions of the Catholic Church, and move the emphasis away from the Altar to the pulpit. There are many expressions of protestantism and it continues to split in interpretations and beliefs. Holy Mother the Church remains devoted to traditions that were instituted by Christ and is carried through the Primacy of Peter.
Jesus Chirst said, “You are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build My Church…and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.”
While there are many splits and interpretations of the Papal Hierarchy since Calvin and Martin Luther, the Catholic Church remains firm on its traditions, including seven Sacraments, the Eucharist (Actual Body and Blood of Jesus Christ) Priest celabacy, and intercessions to Mother Mary in the Holy Rosary, and intercessions thriough the Saints.
Protestantism does no accept all the traditions of the Catholic Church, and move the emphasis away from the Altar to the pulpit. There are many expressions of protestantism and it continues to split in interpretations and beliefs. Holy Mother the Church remains devoted to traditions that were instituted by Christ and is carried through the Primacy of Peter.
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Disinherited
Guest
Its OK, I recognize that the actions done by ‘the Church’ were done by evil people
. I believe absolutely everything the CHurch teaches, especially the teachings about the Blessed Mother and the Eucharist. Never compromise not even in the face of armageddon.
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quiro_saber
Guest
Dear Disinherited,
Why do you doubt? Just look inside of yourself and ask yourself if you have been completely faithful to the church and her teaching yourself.
? In other words, the church is ful of saints and sinners. The idea is that you must make yourself a saint. and don’t worry about anything else. Do not base your faith on other people. Focus on christ.
Aside from that ,stop reading things contrary to your faith, there are tons of enemies out there that are distorting truth to make you give up. Don’t fall for it. Try reading the works of Alphonsus Ligouri for a change in mind and heart. DON’T WORRY. DON’T WORRY.
Why do you doubt? Just look inside of yourself and ask yourself if you have been completely faithful to the church and her teaching yourself.
? In other words, the church is ful of saints and sinners. The idea is that you must make yourself a saint. and don’t worry about anything else. Do not base your faith on other people. Focus on christ.
Aside from that ,stop reading things contrary to your faith, there are tons of enemies out there that are distorting truth to make you give up. Don’t fall for it. Try reading the works of Alphonsus Ligouri for a change in mind and heart. DON’T WORRY. DON’T WORRY.
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Disinherited
Guest
I’ll worry all I want! Just kidding. I have my faith back and its all thanks to the Blessed Mother. Humanity may be flawed, God may not love all the same but She assures us that with Her help we can become great saints and make a diffirence in this world. catholictradition.org/Mary/blessings.htm
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Fogwalker
Guest
When I see something in the Church’s past that makes me say “How could a legitimate Church DO something like that?”, I have found it extremely helpful to think about Romans 3:
“…they were entrusted with the utterances of God. What if some were unfaithful? Will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God? Of course not! God must be true, though every human being is a liar…”
Paul was speaking about the Jewish leadership in this particular passage, but the parallel to evils in our own Church is clear. The actions of anyone in our Church - good or bad - have nothing to do with the validity of Catholicism.
“…they were entrusted with the utterances of God. What if some were unfaithful? Will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God? Of course not! God must be true, though every human being is a liar…”
Paul was speaking about the Jewish leadership in this particular passage, but the parallel to evils in our own Church is clear. The actions of anyone in our Church - good or bad - have nothing to do with the validity of Catholicism.
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